Look what I did on my summer break
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Overall, I like the design, some issues from my point-of-view though: 1. I don't like usability of the new forum - its hard to see which posts have been read previously, are popular etc. 2. It bugs the hell out of me to have the News section relegated right down the page - on the old site that tended to be my first port of call.
News items are going to appear in "Our Community" section at the top right to give them a little more love.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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Let the discussion begin.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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Let the discussion begin.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Your summer break paid off! Cool look, really clearly arranged the content... only the "latest articles" and similar 'grid-style' pages could become even more clearly by alternating the colors from entry to entry... just a suggestion :-)
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Let the discussion begin.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
I think that this is one of the best Metro-ish implementations that I've seen and that is saying something because I despise Metro. It doesn't look all basic and Playskool-ish like everything else Metro. Good job! The only quibble that I have is a general quibble with Metro: why do all the icons and buttons, i.e. print, bookmark, etc. have to be flat, bland and colorless? Most phones and computers have good enough graphics cards to be able to handle things like that. Maybe it's just me, but that's one of the things that makes me feel depressed when looking at most Metro themes.
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Lack of borders makes it hard to read and tell between threads, at least in Chrome it is. Otherwise, looks great.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Agreed.
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Let the discussion begin.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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Let the discussion begin.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
I like the metro concept, however, the site looks too bright for my tastes. The eyes adjust exposure (pupils dialate or shrink like aperture on camera) based overall tones which is extremely high now and I feel like it makes it harder to decipher darker colors (including plain old black text) across the page as result. This leads to more eye strain I think. I would recommend a muted texture like the one found visual studio 2010 so that the overall tones would be reduced. For example, if I place a dark colored folder across the bottom of the monitor, my eyes immediately begin to relax. Otherwise, I like the simplicity of the new look.
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I think that this is one of the best Metro-ish implementations that I've seen and that is saying something because I despise Metro. It doesn't look all basic and Playskool-ish like everything else Metro. Good job! The only quibble that I have is a general quibble with Metro: why do all the icons and buttons, i.e. print, bookmark, etc. have to be flat, bland and colorless? Most phones and computers have good enough graphics cards to be able to handle things like that. Maybe it's just me, but that's one of the things that makes me feel depressed when looking at most Metro themes.
greyseal96 wrote:
I think that this is one of the best Metro-ish implementations that I've seen and that is saying something because I despise Metro. It doesn't look all basic and Playskool-ish like everything else Metro. Good job!
The only quibble that I have is a general quibble with Metro: why do all the icons and buttons, i.e. print, bookmark, etc. have to be flat, bland and colorless? Most phones and computers have good enough graphics cards to be able to handle things like that. Maybe it's just me, but that's one of the things that makes me feel depressed when looking at most Metro themes.+1.
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Let the discussion begin.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Ugh ... so you caved-in to the pressure too, huh? Overall it does look OK though I agree with those who say there's way too much whitespace. I just don't understand why flat-and-colorless (icons, particularly) has been determined a "fashion". I suppose whoever saw the signs at the airport just ran amuck at Microsoft and it was all-of-a-sudden a fashion. Oh well. Considering you decided to go "Metro", as such it appears a nice implementation but I'm still among those who do not care for the style in general. Maybe I'll get used to it in time but I can't underestimate the relief my eyes get when I pan over to the rest of my desktop where there is some definition to the GUI.
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Let the discussion begin.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Nice work, Chris & CP team!
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I think that this is one of the best Metro-ish implementations that I've seen and that is saying something because I despise Metro. It doesn't look all basic and Playskool-ish like everything else Metro. Good job! The only quibble that I have is a general quibble with Metro: why do all the icons and buttons, i.e. print, bookmark, etc. have to be flat, bland and colorless? Most phones and computers have good enough graphics cards to be able to handle things like that. Maybe it's just me, but that's one of the things that makes me feel depressed when looking at most Metro themes.
The point is that the icons are meant to be indicators. They are not meant to be skeuomorphisms. The content should be the brightest, shiniest thing on the page, not the little glittery icons.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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The point is that the icons are meant to be indicators. They are not meant to be skeuomorphisms. The content should be the brightest, shiniest thing on the page, not the little glittery icons.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Chris, I truly and honestly thank you for responding to me about this. Metro is something that to me seems pretty incomprehensible and ugly. I see, though, that there are a lot of people who feel that it is light and refreshing. So I really appreciate you taking the time to help explain this. Can I ask a couple more questions to try to understand the other side better? First, what is considered the content? Is it the text? Is it pictures? Where I'm coming from is that, to me, everything on the page is content. The text, the icons, the graphics, etc. are all content, the way that I see it. To me, it seems that Metro takes part of the content, makes it bland and depressing and then I'm left with a nearly blank sheet of paper with writing on it. To make it worse, it seems that a popular Metro ideal is a lack of borders and separation so everything on the page tends to run together. I think that perhaps, I and a number of other people either aren't understanding what the content is supposed to be so perhaps that's keeping us from understanding what the beauty of Metro is that many other people seem to see. Unfortunately, many in the Metro camp dismiss this view by saying something to the effect of "You're just a dinosaur..." so nobody understands either side. Can you help me to understand this? Regards, John
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Chris, I truly and honestly thank you for responding to me about this. Metro is something that to me seems pretty incomprehensible and ugly. I see, though, that there are a lot of people who feel that it is light and refreshing. So I really appreciate you taking the time to help explain this. Can I ask a couple more questions to try to understand the other side better? First, what is considered the content? Is it the text? Is it pictures? Where I'm coming from is that, to me, everything on the page is content. The text, the icons, the graphics, etc. are all content, the way that I see it. To me, it seems that Metro takes part of the content, makes it bland and depressing and then I'm left with a nearly blank sheet of paper with writing on it. To make it worse, it seems that a popular Metro ideal is a lack of borders and separation so everything on the page tends to run together. I think that perhaps, I and a number of other people either aren't understanding what the content is supposed to be so perhaps that's keeping us from understanding what the beauty of Metro is that many other people seem to see. Unfortunately, many in the Metro camp dismiss this view by saying something to the effect of "You're just a dinosaur..." so nobody understands either side. Can you help me to understand this? Regards, John
Content is what someone comes to the page to read. I don't come to an article to view the bookmark icon, or New message icon. I want to read the article and its images.
greyseal96 wrote:
it seems that a popular Metro ideal is a lack of borders and separation so everything on the page tends to run together.
And herein lies the big problem with many implementations. The second pillar of Metro is spacing. You don't surround everything in bright shiny boxes and flowery borders - they are distracting. You use space as your border. Or, in our case, when things are tight we have a very light border combined with less space, but with the overall goal being that the separator should separate the content, not try and out-glitter the content. Though, I have broken this rule in the forums with the bright orange separator bar. There's a lot of noise in a page full of messages so the quiet, reserved separators had to be a little noisier to be heard. The attitude of "you're too old" really bugs me. No, none of us are too old to get it, though many of us really are stuck in our ways. Remember that metro says nothing about which colours you choose, which is why we made sure we got as much crazy orange in as we could. It also doesn't say "make all your nav links big tiles". That's a touch interface that uses the metro design in its layout, but it is most definitely not the metro language.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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Content is what someone comes to the page to read. I don't come to an article to view the bookmark icon, or New message icon. I want to read the article and its images.
greyseal96 wrote:
it seems that a popular Metro ideal is a lack of borders and separation so everything on the page tends to run together.
And herein lies the big problem with many implementations. The second pillar of Metro is spacing. You don't surround everything in bright shiny boxes and flowery borders - they are distracting. You use space as your border. Or, in our case, when things are tight we have a very light border combined with less space, but with the overall goal being that the separator should separate the content, not try and out-glitter the content. Though, I have broken this rule in the forums with the bright orange separator bar. There's a lot of noise in a page full of messages so the quiet, reserved separators had to be a little noisier to be heard. The attitude of "you're too old" really bugs me. No, none of us are too old to get it, though many of us really are stuck in our ways. Remember that metro says nothing about which colours you choose, which is why we made sure we got as much crazy orange in as we could. It also doesn't say "make all your nav links big tiles". That's a touch interface that uses the metro design in its layout, but it is most definitely not the metro language.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Once again, I really appreciate your response. I can definitely tell that you and those working with you have put a lot of thought into how you have structured the UI. This reminds me of an art discussion that I had once. I had somebody try to explain to me what was so great about modern art. The person was knowledgeable and obviously knew what they were talking about but, try as they might, I just couldn't see it and still can't. I appreciate classical and realism but my tastes just don't lie with modern art. Similarly, you have been very patient and provided lots of good information (for which I am grateful) but I still can't seem to like Metro and its design principles; ironically, Metro distracts me from the content and makes it harder for me to read. D'OH!! Also, as maligned as they are, I still like skeuomorphisms. I guess that my tastes just lie elsewhere. Like I said before, though, this is the best Metro implementation that I've seen so far. Thanks again for taking the time to explain Metro a bit more. Regards, John
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Once again, I really appreciate your response. I can definitely tell that you and those working with you have put a lot of thought into how you have structured the UI. This reminds me of an art discussion that I had once. I had somebody try to explain to me what was so great about modern art. The person was knowledgeable and obviously knew what they were talking about but, try as they might, I just couldn't see it and still can't. I appreciate classical and realism but my tastes just don't lie with modern art. Similarly, you have been very patient and provided lots of good information (for which I am grateful) but I still can't seem to like Metro and its design principles; ironically, Metro distracts me from the content and makes it harder for me to read. D'OH!! Also, as maligned as they are, I still like skeuomorphisms. I guess that my tastes just lie elsewhere. Like I said before, though, this is the best Metro implementation that I've seen so far. Thanks again for taking the time to explain Metro a bit more. Regards, John
Thanks for the good discussion, John. What would make it less distraction, and make the content more of the focus?
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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News items are going to appear in "Our Community" section at the top right to give them a little more love.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
That's what I was hoping - I really like the new design, and for the first time its readable on my Windows Phone. I suspect there are usability issues to iron out, but persevere and thank you for the bold step of a redesign. As I can see there are already moaners, but some people hate to see change of any form.
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Thanks for the good discussion, John. What would make it less distraction, and make the content more of the focus?
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Thank you as well, Chris. I feel like my understanding has increased. Upon reflecting about it, the answer to what would make it less distracting and give content the focus is kinda complex; I can really appreciate all the thought that you guys must have put into this. There are some things that jumped out at me and then others that I realized are kind of subjective to me. First, as I said before, the lack of colors (in many implementations, bright, blinding white) usually makes the text hard to read because, for some reason, my eyes really need the definition and the visual cues that the colors and borders give. I can see, though, that you guys have added background colors to the text boxes in the forums and that really makes a big difference. I also noticed that the borders in the forum have changed. They aren't overstated but they are just enough to provide good, clear distinction and separation. The UI not only feels less cluttered but I can see how the content stands out more. The other part of it is subjective for me and I don't really know what could be done about it because that just comes down to personal taste. For me, I really like the color variety of the pre-Metro style. To me, the flat, basic colors of the Metro style kind of depress me and make me feel like I'm living in some eastern European communist utilitarian slum (sincerely no offense intended there). As I have seen the Metro implementations of various UIs, I have felt in the back of my mind that something was "off" and it was distracting me as I was interacting with the UI. Not only that, but on my desktop and my phone, I have pretty nice graphics cards and I like seeing all of the visual candy of the pre-Metro style. :) Like I said, though, this is all really subjective and it comes down to what I like vs. what others like; not much that anybody can do there. Thanks for interacting with all of us your users. It really means a lot that you would solicit and, where possible, incorporate our feedback. Just another reason why Code Project is a great site. Regards, John
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Let the discussion begin.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Looks nice and modern, a job well done! Would you mind pointing out the resources you used to develop the design? I ask because I like how it is Modern (Metro) based, without actually looking like a part of windows. To me this is important, as it will sell well with all users, not just Microsoft/Windows users.
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I think that this is one of the best Metro-ish implementations that I've seen and that is saying something because I despise Metro. It doesn't look all basic and Playskool-ish like everything else Metro. Good job! The only quibble that I have is a general quibble with Metro: why do all the icons and buttons, i.e. print, bookmark, etc. have to be flat, bland and colorless? Most phones and computers have good enough graphics cards to be able to handle things like that. Maybe it's just me, but that's one of the things that makes me feel depressed when looking at most Metro themes.
greyseal96 wrote:
The only quibble that I have is a general quibble with Metro: why do all the icons and buttons, i.e. print, bookmark, etc. have to be flat, bland and colorless? Most phones and computers have good enough graphics cards to be able to handle things like that. Maybe it's just me, but that's one of the things that makes me feel depressed when looking at most Metro themes
Agree 100%. Some gradients and a splash more colour won't hurt - my phone can handle it - my desktop is probably crying out for it.