So I installed Ubuntu this morning.
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And so far, I am not impressed. It has been a long day of googling, and finding only examples of others' frustration and confusion, and I am still not able to set up a DSL (PPPoE) connection over my wlan. In Windows I created a new connection, enter username and password, and it works.
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I opted to install it into a VirtualBox and it works like a charm. Clipboard and Foldersharing - no problem
I have it in a VM under VMWare Player, but as I was dealing with wifi and network connection specifics, I thought I'd prefer direct hardware access, so I installed it dual boot. The crap there is no file sharing, so I'm going back to a VM when I do my new machine tomorrow.
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And so far, I am not impressed. It has been a long day of googling, and finding only examples of others' frustration and confusion, and I am still not able to set up a DSL (PPPoE) connection over my wlan. In Windows I created a new connection, enter username and password, and it works.
Welcome to the Linux world, where the simple, it's hard and the hard, harder. :laugh: My gripes with Linux are mostly my graphic card and wireless driver, both are not fully open source so i need to grab them from the vendor site and compile a small wrapper around a binary file and do some console magic, pray and cross my fingers for it to work in the first try. Seriously, don't expect to accomplish too much with the GUI (in the SysAdmin side), better learn some commands or even better, get a cheatsheet.
CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...
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I have it in a VM under VMWare Player, but as I was dealing with wifi and network connection specifics, I thought I'd prefer direct hardware access, so I installed it dual boot. The crap there is no file sharing, so I'm going back to a VM when I do my new machine tomorrow.
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About file sharing, can't you just mount the file system that you want to access? I use 'mount' and 'umount' for any local file system. I don't know if this does what you need.
Hmm, I can have a look at mounting, but I would till prefer to have both 'boxes' up at the same time, hence the VM route.
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I think its sad that in the 2010's Linux still requires this kind to tomfoolery to do basis sysadmin tasks. Jimmy wrote earlier "On the plus side, when you have mastered the details you will really know how the system operates." I certainly don't see that as a plus for Linux - modern devices should hide the complexity from users most of the time. I really don't see it as an "advantage" that mastering a system still requires occasional forays into state-of-the-art-40-years-ago command-line processing.
I do not see it as "effective" to have a GUI for each bloody option available in the command line. Setting up a static address is simple, even for a non-admin like me, and the command line is the superior model here; quick no-nonsense interaction, just bash in some scripts. Now, let me see you work through a thirty-something screenshots, trying to figure out where they moved that textbox to since the last version you saw it.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: if you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Our connections are working OK now, thanks. It was the pppoeconf tool that did the trick.
Oh, the memories. Back in 2006 I think, I used to configure my internet connection with pppoeconf in Ubuntu live session to upgrade the installer itself so that it wouldn't fail to install on my machine. Things got easier once I configured my adsl modem as router instead of bridge. Couldn't you do the same? Let your modem dial instead of each operating system.
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I do not see it as "effective" to have a GUI for each bloody option available in the command line. Setting up a static address is simple, even for a non-admin like me, and the command line is the superior model here; quick no-nonsense interaction, just bash in some scripts. Now, let me see you work through a thirty-something screenshots, trying to figure out where they moved that textbox to since the last version you saw it.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: if you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
It will take less time going through those 30-something screenshots than it would going through those lists of 300+ Linux commands to figure out which to use, then exploring its 30-something man pages and its 50-something parameters to discover which ones will do what you want, plus all the googling and exploring all the forums posts of similar questions, the first 500 of which are unanswered or tell you to RTFM.
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
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Oh, the memories. Back in 2006 I think, I used to configure my internet connection with pppoeconf in Ubuntu live session to upgrade the installer itself so that it wouldn't fail to install on my machine. Things got easier once I configured my adsl modem as router instead of bridge. Couldn't you do the same? Let your modem dial instead of each operating system.
No, this whole mission was over making the router just a bridge. Two of us wish to share the modem but each use our own ISP account for bandwidth.
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It will take less time going through those 30-something screenshots than it would going through those lists of 300+ Linux commands to figure out which to use, then exploring its 30-something man pages and its 50-something parameters to discover which ones will do what you want, plus all the googling and exploring all the forums posts of similar questions, the first 500 of which are unanswered or tell you to RTFM.
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
Forget about Linux for a second; it's called DOS and came with a decent reference-manual. No matter how fast you trained your mouse-skills, it'll never outpace a trained user on a command line. ..and you learn the switches by heart of course. After having implemented an installer for Ubuntu recently, I do appreciate that the developer is required to provide a man-page.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: if you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Forget about Linux for a second; it's called DOS and came with a decent reference-manual. No matter how fast you trained your mouse-skills, it'll never outpace a trained user on a command line. ..and you learn the switches by heart of course. After having implemented an installer for Ubuntu recently, I do appreciate that the developer is required to provide a man-page.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: if you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
Oh, I agree. I loved DOS, and just like Linux commands, they're a lot quicker than a GUI. But the key phrase in your response is "a trained user." The OP is untrained in Linux, as am I, and while the concepts are similar to DOS, even an old DOS expert will be lost when moving to Linux. The learning curve is steep: apps and user data are stored in different places (even from app to app), the commands are cryptic and inconsistent.
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
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And so far, I am not impressed. It has been a long day of googling, and finding only examples of others' frustration and confusion, and I am still not able to set up a DSL (PPPoE) connection over my wlan. In Windows I created a new connection, enter username and password, and it works.
Win Vista is why I tried Ubuntu. WLAN with Ubuntu is why I switched back to Windows (of course, Win 7 also was a big part of it, although it was in beta at that time but still way better than vista)!
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I do not see it as "effective" to have a GUI for each bloody option available in the command line. Setting up a static address is simple, even for a non-admin like me, and the command line is the superior model here; quick no-nonsense interaction, just bash in some scripts. Now, let me see you work through a thirty-something screenshots, trying to figure out where they moved that textbox to since the last version you saw it.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: if you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
Yeah, Yeah, bla, bla, I'm a command line god. etc. etc. more bullshit... ad infinitum. I write sophisticated performance critical code for highly parallel environments and I KNOW how the target system works. When I have a problem with my system I say "Hey, IT guy, fix this machine you lazy f***!" cos he thinks dicking around with this crap is a skill, so he deserves my contempt. An when he's done I don't thank him, I just say "Now f*** off back to your cave you f***ing troll". That's how you speak to cavemen (read sysadmins, particularly NIX types). TLDR; I've got more important things to do than RTFM.
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Brady Kelly wrote:
It has been a long day of googling, and finding only examples of others' frustration and confusion
Now you know why Linux doesn't have a larger foothold as a workstation OS. :|
Brady Kelly wrote:
I am still not able to set up a DSL (PPPoE) connection over my wlan
The difference between Linux and Windows system administrators is that Linux system administrators need to be system administrators. :doh:
Brady Kelly wrote:
In Windows I created a new connection, enter username and password, and it works.
As they say in New York City; fuggetaboutit! You will really need to know how to administer the machine now. On the minus side, you will have a steep learning curve. :thumbsdown: On the plus side, when you have mastered the details you will really know how the system operates. :thumbsup:
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesI have really liked Linux as I've used it and gotten to know it better. As a programmer, it feels like "my" operating system in a way that Windows doesn't. I look forward to learning more and getting better at it. On the other hand, you're absolutely right about this being the reason that Linux doesn't have a larger foothold. As much as I like Linux, it often takes way too long to do things that take a few seconds or minutes to do on my Windows box. For my things that I need to "just work" and get done quickly, I still do them on my Windows OS. Don't get me wrong: Linux has made huge strides as far as usability goes, as evidenced by Ubuntu. However, there are still those things that would be really difficult for a consumer to do or figure out and I believe that is why Linux is still not as popular as the other OSs, even though it's "free as in beer." This isn't necessarily a bad thing, though. Look what you get with consumerization: Gnome3, Unity and Metro. I'm super grateful, though, that Linux's modularity allows me to dump parts I don't like and swap in parts that I prefer. That, I think, is its biggest strength. Like I said, Linux has made some great strides where usability is concerned and I do see it one day gaining widespread popularity on the desktop among technologists and consumers alike.
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I absolutely understand. I did it when I was running Windows XP. What I ended up doing was running the applications that I would run in Ubuntu (back then it was Ubuntu 6.06) on Windows XP. As I got use to them there was a point in time, where I was using more of these tools. So I moved from that to running Ubuntu in a virtual machine. I learned from that how the file system works, and also how to do basic networking. I then started using the Ubuntu virtual machine so much that I decided to switch the equation, so that Ubuntu was the host and Windows XP was the guest. Over time I found myself using XP less and less. I now use the XP VM just for testing websites in IE and my current ASP.NET investigations. I also had a lot of problems like you, when doing the final switch from XP to Ubuntu, except I also had a strange problem where if I set my startup display in the BIOS to the graphics card (ATI Radieon 9200SE), Xorg would not start correctly, however if I had my on board graphics card set. and my Monitor connected to the Radieon, it would work perfectly. BTW I have been a PHP developer for 8 years, and I am doing some investigation on how good ASP.NET actually is. I am so use to everything being so simple and dynamic in PHP. Simple applications that requires authentication, simple form validation and output (for example is the email supplied a valid email address) seems so complicated for what it actually is. All I am trying to do is a simple CMS that has search engine friendly URLs. In PHP it takes about all of 30 mins. However I seem to be fighting VS2010 more than I am actually writing code and I have spent more than 3 days and got nowhere. So your not alone!!! However I am sure its just because I am use to the PHP ways of doing it, and I will get use to it.
ziggyfish wrote:
I am doing some investigation on how good ASP.NET actually is
Look into MVC (RAZOR view engine). I like it better than WinForms.
ziggyfish wrote:
I have been a PHP developer for 8 years
I used to be a PHP developer but have been doing ASP.NET for the past 4 years, a long term contract. I want to look into Ruby On Rails (MVC) for any Apache imnplementations I do in the future.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
ziggyfish wrote:
I am doing some investigation on how good ASP.NET actually is
Look into MVC (RAZOR view engine). I like it better than WinForms.
ziggyfish wrote:
I have been a PHP developer for 8 years
I used to be a PHP developer but have been doing ASP.NET for the past 4 years, a long term contract. I want to look into Ruby On Rails (MVC) for any Apache imnplementations I do in the future.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesJimmyRopes wrote:
ziggyfish wrote:
I am doing some investigation on how good ASP.NET actually is
Look into MVC (RAZOR view engine). I like it better than WinForms.
So the ASP.NET's MVC isn't that good? I use the Zend Framework in a lot of my work which is a MVC. ZF has some really cool features that I really like. For example forms display, validation and CRUD are very elegant in ZF. Also Magento is based of ZF as well, which made it very easy to learn Magento.
JimmyRopes wrote:
ziggyfish wrote:
I have been a PHP developer for 8 years
I used to be a PHP developer but have been doing ASP.NET for the past 4 years, a long term contract. I want to look into Ruby On Rails (MVC) for any Apache imnplementations I do in the future.
I've worked with Rails for a while as well, its a nice framework to work with although I not really a fan of the Ruby language . A lot of ZF has been inspired by Rails.
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And so far, I am not impressed. It has been a long day of googling, and finding only examples of others' frustration and confusion, and I am still not able to set up a DSL (PPPoE) connection over my wlan. In Windows I created a new connection, enter username and password, and it works.
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And so far, I am not impressed. It has been a long day of googling, and finding only examples of others' frustration and confusion, and I am still not able to set up a DSL (PPPoE) connection over my wlan. In Windows I created a new connection, enter username and password, and it works.
You'll also find that asking something like this will result in a gui vs console or windows vs unix war between fanboys and not really help with your issue. What version of ubuntu are you using?
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You'll also find that asking something like this will result in a gui vs console or windows vs unix war between fanboys and not really help with your issue. What version of ubuntu are you using?
Hehe, indeed. I'm a staunch GUI man; this is 2012. I'm using 12.04.