The Language/Coding proposition
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What about those of us with exceptional coding skills and vivid sense of humor, who, because our very low self-esteem, are too shy to express all these talents?
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Deyan Georgiev wrote:
What about those of us with exceptional coding skills and vivid sense of humor, who, because our very low self-esteem, are too shy to express all these talents?
Ah, a member of Team Modesty! :rolleyes:
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
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SAP? Crystal Reports!!!???? Guys, bring the torches and the pitch-forks, tar and feathers too, we have work to do!
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Deyan Georgiev wrote:
What about those of us with exceptional coding skills and vivid sense of humor, who, because our very low self-esteem, are too shy to express all these talents?
Ah, a member of Team Modesty! :rolleyes:
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
Been extremely humble is my only shortcoming. :-D
There is only one Vera Farmiga and Salma Hayek is her prophet! Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
Today I learned SAP maintains Crystal Reports now :)
Now when you know, what you are going to do about it? Probably some small “accident” with the Cristal Reports’ lab?:suss:
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Been extremely humble is my only shortcoming. :-D
There is only one Vera Farmiga and Salma Hayek is her prophet! Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
At least you are working on it :)
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At least you are working on it :)
5! :laugh:
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What about sex? That's not an offer! ;) Just pointing out that my sex is probably the most memorable thing about me here and it colours how everyone treats me. I suppose the question of how people are treated is very complex. In general I think we should try not to pick on people who are trying, whatever their skills, and those who aren't trying will soon leave anyway. :)
"State acheived after eating too many chocolate-covered coconut bars - bountiful" Chris C-B
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What about sex? That's not an offer! ;) Just pointing out that my sex is probably the most memorable thing about me here and it colours how everyone treats me. I suppose the question of how people are treated is very complex. In general I think we should try not to pick on people who are trying, whatever their skills, and those who aren't trying will soon leave anyway. :)
"State acheived after eating too many chocolate-covered coconut bars - bountiful" Chris C-B
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I always have thought of you as a giant chocolate bar! you just destroyed the magic :((
I'm brazilian and english (well, human languages in general) aren't my best skill, so, sorry by my english. (if you want we can speak in C# or VB.Net =p)
Sentenryu wrote:
I always have thought of you as with a giant chocolate bar!
... would be more accurate! ;)
"State acheived after eating too many chocolate-covered coconut bars - bountiful" Chris C-B
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I stumbled upon this thread in the Suggestions forum : http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/4387427/Insults-are-not-welcome.aspx[^] And that got me thinking about how language ability and coding skills are the 2 major factors that affect how people get treated online. Well, there’s no score/ranking here really but I’ve formulated this theory on what makes someone popular in a technical/geek forum (like CodeProject, StackOverflow, or say Reddit). In my observations, it seems to be directly related to a combination of your language ability (not just grammar, but the ability to use humor and sarcasm to good effect) and your technological competency. Here’s a venn-diagram of sorts that tries to explain this better: http://i.imgur.com/fHExJ.png[^] 2 : represents people who have great language/humor/verbosity. 3: represents technology gurus with extreme coding skills. 4: represents the intersection of 2 and 3. 1: represents those with neither language skills or technical ability. Now, people in 2 and 3 (but not in 4) usually get along okay. Here on CP we have a fair number of category-2 people who can write well, express complex ideas succinctly, and possess incredible senses of humor, but who are very ordinary programmers. They are popular. We also have a number of category-3 people, mostly from non-native (English) countries who are very good at coding/technology and who answer a lot of Q-A threads. They are fairly popular too despite the fact that many of them write with the verbosity/grammar of a 6 year old. Then we have the rock-stars like Christian and Pete who are category-4, that most elite of forum classifications. These folks are revered and held in the absolute highest esteem. So, what does this leave us with? Well folks who can’t code, and whose English expressing abilities are severely lacking. While it sounds unfair, it’s best if these people try and work on at least one of these skills before venturing out to these sites, unless they possess really thick skins and are prepared to learn and improve amidst a showering of insults and abuses. Opinions welcome...
Regards, Nish
My technology blog:
Nish Sivakumar wrote:
So, what does this leave us with? Well folks who can’t code, and whose English expressing abilities are severely lacking. While it sounds unfair, it’s best if these people try and work on at least one of these skills before venturing out to these sites, unless they possess really thick skins and are prepared to learn and improve amidst a showering of insults and abuses.
Can't say I agree with this. How many times have you said to yourself "hmm, I need to use some kind of statistical tool to solve this problem, so I'm going to go away and 'learn' statistics before approaching the problem"? Or "oh, I've never used non-blocking IO before, I'd better go and learn all about it before trying it out". In my experience, learning by jumping right in is usually better, as it constantly tests you and forces you to question and improve your understanding. We spend our whole lives learning to express ourselves, both in human and machine languages, and we attain perfection in neither (because, of course, there is no such thing). I'd say, better to jump in now and look like a fool sometimes than to refrain from participating until you feel "good enough", which may never happen. And those times when we make a basic mistake publicly and feel like fools - aren't they the most educational experiences? Also, what better way to develop that thick skin than by suffering those insults and abuses that inevitably occur online? :)
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Sentenryu wrote:
I always have thought of you as with a giant chocolate bar!
... would be more accurate! ;)
"State acheived after eating too many chocolate-covered coconut bars - bountiful" Chris C-B
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Now for a more appropriate answer. It is always good advice to read a site and get accustomed to its peculiarities before you post on it. Unfortunately the vast majority of people (I would imagine) end up here because they have an immediate problem. I don't think poor coding skills really matter, it is the ability to express yourself properly (and by that I do not mean just English not being your first or second language, many native English speakers cannot communicate well, especially using the written form of the language) that does, because straight away it gets people's backs up. I am sure that many asking succinct questions have attempted to find out the information, but simply lack the skills, or are not confident in their skills, to express what they have done so just put the question and no background.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends. Shed Petition[^]
For people who are very new, it can be challenging to even know what to ask. They face a problem, but due to simple lack of experience, also lack the context to know what to ask, or what to search for. I am self-taught, and I think I am getting pretty good at this programming thing. But only a few years ago, it was very difficult to even know A. What to search for on line, prior to asking (because I recognized that it is better to try to find an answer for yourself, first) and B. How to ask the question, or how to describe the problem. Fortunately, I am a native English speaker, and relatively adept with the written language. I shudder to think how I would come off, or how successful I would be, if I needed to ask questions about the complex subject of programming in a foreign tongue. While it can be painful to read some questions or answers posed by a non-native speaker, these people deserve all of our respect and some kudos. It takes some serious cojones to attempt asking or answering a question about programming when you don;t speak the language. Imagin posting your next question or answer in, say, Russian (if, that is, you are a single-language native English-speaker).
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but not as attractive to me :-\
I'm brazilian and english (well, human languages in general) aren't my best skill, so, sorry by my english. (if you want we can speak in C# or VB.Net =p)
Me neither! :-\
"State acheived after eating too many chocolate-covered coconut bars - bountiful" Chris C-B
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Yeah well, I have given the game away once or twice ... :)
"State acheived after eating too many chocolate-covered coconut bars - bountiful" Chris C-B
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Nish Sivakumar wrote:
So, what does this leave us with? Well folks who can’t code, and whose English expressing abilities are severely lacking. While it sounds unfair, it’s best if these people try and work on at least one of these skills before venturing out to these sites, unless they possess really thick skins and are prepared to learn and improve amidst a showering of insults and abuses.
Can't say I agree with this. How many times have you said to yourself "hmm, I need to use some kind of statistical tool to solve this problem, so I'm going to go away and 'learn' statistics before approaching the problem"? Or "oh, I've never used non-blocking IO before, I'd better go and learn all about it before trying it out". In my experience, learning by jumping right in is usually better, as it constantly tests you and forces you to question and improve your understanding. We spend our whole lives learning to express ourselves, both in human and machine languages, and we attain perfection in neither (because, of course, there is no such thing). I'd say, better to jump in now and look like a fool sometimes than to refrain from participating until you feel "good enough", which may never happen. And those times when we make a basic mistake publicly and feel like fools - aren't they the most educational experiences? Also, what better way to develop that thick skin than by suffering those insults and abuses that inevitably occur online? :)
destynova wrote:
Also, what better way to develop that thick skin than by suffering those insults and abuses that inevitably occur online? :)
Well, not everyone can do that, which is why we have these sort of threads in the Suggestions forum. I get your point though and do not disagree.
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
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I stumbled upon this thread in the Suggestions forum : http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/4387427/Insults-are-not-welcome.aspx[^] And that got me thinking about how language ability and coding skills are the 2 major factors that affect how people get treated online. Well, there’s no score/ranking here really but I’ve formulated this theory on what makes someone popular in a technical/geek forum (like CodeProject, StackOverflow, or say Reddit). In my observations, it seems to be directly related to a combination of your language ability (not just grammar, but the ability to use humor and sarcasm to good effect) and your technological competency. Here’s a venn-diagram of sorts that tries to explain this better: http://i.imgur.com/fHExJ.png[^] 2 : represents people who have great language/humor/verbosity. 3: represents technology gurus with extreme coding skills. 4: represents the intersection of 2 and 3. 1: represents those with neither language skills or technical ability. Now, people in 2 and 3 (but not in 4) usually get along okay. Here on CP we have a fair number of category-2 people who can write well, express complex ideas succinctly, and possess incredible senses of humor, but who are very ordinary programmers. They are popular. We also have a number of category-3 people, mostly from non-native (English) countries who are very good at coding/technology and who answer a lot of Q-A threads. They are fairly popular too despite the fact that many of them write with the verbosity/grammar of a 6 year old. Then we have the rock-stars like Christian and Pete who are category-4, that most elite of forum classifications. These folks are revered and held in the absolute highest esteem. So, what does this leave us with? Well folks who can’t code, and whose English expressing abilities are severely lacking. While it sounds unfair, it’s best if these people try and work on at least one of these skills before venturing out to these sites, unless they possess really thick skins and are prepared to learn and improve amidst a showering of insults and abuses. Opinions welcome...
Regards, Nish
My technology blog:
Nish Sivakumar wrote:
We also have a number of category-3 people, mostly from non-native (English) countries who are very good at coding/technology and who answer a lot of Q-A threads. They are fairly popular too despite the fact that many of them write with the verbosity/grammar of a 6 year old.
Well, even a 6 year old can communicate effectively...
Nish Sivakumar wrote:
So, what does this leave us with? Well folks who can’t code, and whose English expressing abilities are severely lacking. While it sounds unfair, it’s best if these people try and work on at least one of these skills before venturing out to these sites, unless they possess really thick skins and are prepared to learn and improve amidst a showering of insults and abuses.
It's not only unfair, but rude to ask them this, it's like asking that to be able to have access to any knowledge you must be an american blond white male (well it's a bit exaggerated but you get the point), anyway if i had to learn one of these skills to be able to be here i would learn good english, why? because most of the up-to-date resources to learn better coding are in english. And for the insults, well it's the internet, what were you expecting? :laugh:
CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...
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Nish Sivakumar wrote:
We also have a number of category-3 people, mostly from non-native (English) countries who are very good at coding/technology and who answer a lot of Q-A threads. They are fairly popular too despite the fact that many of them write with the verbosity/grammar of a 6 year old.
Well, even a 6 year old can communicate effectively...
Nish Sivakumar wrote:
So, what does this leave us with? Well folks who can’t code, and whose English expressing abilities are severely lacking. While it sounds unfair, it’s best if these people try and work on at least one of these skills before venturing out to these sites, unless they possess really thick skins and are prepared to learn and improve amidst a showering of insults and abuses.
It's not only unfair, but rude to ask them this, it's like asking that to be able to have access to any knowledge you must be an american blond white male (well it's a bit exaggerated but you get the point), anyway if i had to learn one of these skills to be able to be here i would learn good english, why? because most of the up-to-date resources to learn better coding are in english. And for the insults, well it's the internet, what were you expecting? :laugh:
CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...
RafagaX wrote:
It's not only unfair, but rude to ask them this,
Well, people are rude either way so it probably doesn't matter much :-)
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com
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What about sex? That's not an offer! ;) Just pointing out that my sex is probably the most memorable thing about me here and it colours how everyone treats me. I suppose the question of how people are treated is very complex. In general I think we should try not to pick on people who are trying, whatever their skills, and those who aren't trying will soon leave anyway. :)
"State acheived after eating too many chocolate-covered coconut bars - bountiful" Chris C-B
When I saw: "What about sex?" I though it was a joke. Then at the next line I understood. But I think that writing: "What about gender?" will create less confusion... or, well, it will not make a good joke.
