Why Windows Phone just lost a developer
-
Correct me if I'm wrong... but in both cases (Windows Phone OS & Apple iOS) you can develop all you want for free. The $99 is to submit apps for inclusion in the app store. If true, seems like a heck of a deal considering the exposure and distribution... no?
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
Mike Mullikin wrote:
The $99 is to submit apps for inclusion in the app store.
Not quite. If you need to test on a physical device then you have to pay for your subscription, otherwise you won't be able to submit your apps to the devices to test. And bear in mind that this is the cost, even if you are giving your programs away for free - it's definitely a barrier to entry for some.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
-
Correct me if I'm wrong... but in both cases (Windows Phone OS & Apple iOS) you can develop all you want for free. The $99 is to submit apps for inclusion in the app store. If true, seems like a heck of a deal considering the exposure and distribution... no?
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
Mike Mullikin wrote:
you can develop all you want for free
...if you already have a Mac (in case of iOS) or a Windows machine (in case of WP).
-
Indeed - my mind has now switched (in true Apple fanboi fashion) from the version that's on the market to the one that's coming out, so all references to WP7/WP7.5 are now WP8.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
I definately understand. I wish I had gotten the WP8 SDK early but could not get it. But it should be available today. I figured he meant WP7/7.5 but wanted to catch him anyways. :-D Many Apple fanbois would actually take that as true that the sales of WP8 has been bad until now, ignoring the fact that you cant get them yet.
Steve Maier
-
Mike Mullikin wrote:
The $99 is to submit apps for inclusion in the app store.
Not quite. If you need to test on a physical device then you have to pay for your subscription, otherwise you won't be able to submit your apps to the devices to test. And bear in mind that this is the cost, even if you are giving your programs away for free - it's definitely a barrier to entry for some.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
If you need to test on a physical device then you have to pay for your subscription, otherwise you won't be able to submit your apps to the devices to test.
Ahhhh... thanks for the information. I suppose we also need to consider the cost of the device (plus any contract or usage fees).
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
And bear in mind that this is the cost, even if you are giving your programs away for free - it's definitely a barrier to entry for some.
True, but anyone who can't afford the $99 should probably not be giving the apps away for free... just saying. :-D
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
-
I definately understand. I wish I had gotten the WP8 SDK early but could not get it. But it should be available today. I figured he meant WP7/7.5 but wanted to catch him anyways. :-D Many Apple fanbois would actually take that as true that the sales of WP8 has been bad until now, ignoring the fact that you cant get them yet.
Steve Maier
Steve Maier wrote:
I wish I had gotten the WP8 SDK early but could not get it
Same here. The silence from MS surrounding the rather bizarre decision to only offer the API to a tiny few has definitely harmed their standing with the faithful, especially as they are going to want to have WP8 apps in the store for day 1 of release. I know that you can still use WP7.5 apps with it, but that's no consolation for those of us who want to experience the new features the phone has available.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
-
Even with a Dreamspark, the MS team was telling all of the students that they can put apps in the store. And you have a store account for a year. After that, you would have to renew the store account (at $99). Of course hopefully you can make that much with that app, or just don't renew it.
Steve Maier
Sounds nice. I guess I will look into this some more.
-
Even with a Dreamspark, the MS team was telling all of the students that they can put apps in the store. And you have a store account for a year. After that, you would have to renew the store account (at $99). Of course hopefully you can make that much with that app, or just don't renew it.
Steve Maier
Steve Maier wrote:
Even with a Dreamspark, the MS team was telling all of the students that they can put apps in the store.
Not only that, they specifically disallow using anything obtained through Dreamspark (e.g. Visual Studio) for commercial purposes, with the sole exception being apps in their app store. So you can use free Visual Studio (Ultimate even) and any other tools they provide, along with a free store account and potentially even make some money.
-
Mike Mullikin wrote:
The $99 is to submit apps for inclusion in the app store.
Not quite. If you need to test on a physical device then you have to pay for your subscription, otherwise you won't be able to submit your apps to the devices to test. And bear in mind that this is the cost, even if you are giving your programs away for free - it's definitely a barrier to entry for some.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
Hi Pete, Do you have any idea how the Company Hub will work in this regard? I can't seem to find any info on it, but if a company could develop their own 'in house' app, not for the marketplace, but put it their Company Hub then devices using the hub would be able to install and use the app - that would get rid of the need for 'developer unlocking' the device and the $99 - unless they wanted to release the app publicly of course. I can see that as not only being a workaround, but a very good use of the Company Hub, which is why I'm guessing that's not the way it will work!
Dave
Binging is like googling, it just feels dirtier. Please take your VB.NET out of our nice case sensitive forum. Astonish us. Be exceptional. (Pete O'Hanlon)
BTW, in software, hope and pray is not a viable strategy. (Luc Pattyn) -
Mike Mullikin wrote:
The $99 is to submit apps for inclusion in the app store.
Not quite. If you need to test on a physical device then you have to pay for your subscription, otherwise you won't be able to submit your apps to the devices to test. And bear in mind that this is the cost, even if you are giving your programs away for free - it's definitely a barrier to entry for some.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
it's definitely a barrier to entry for some
Seeing the huge number of development done for mobile devices, I don't think that is really a barrier.
Nihil obstat
-
Hi Pete, Do you have any idea how the Company Hub will work in this regard? I can't seem to find any info on it, but if a company could develop their own 'in house' app, not for the marketplace, but put it their Company Hub then devices using the hub would be able to install and use the app - that would get rid of the need for 'developer unlocking' the device and the $99 - unless they wanted to release the app publicly of course. I can see that as not only being a workaround, but a very good use of the Company Hub, which is why I'm guessing that's not the way it will work!
Dave
Binging is like googling, it just feels dirtier. Please take your VB.NET out of our nice case sensitive forum. Astonish us. Be exceptional. (Pete O'Hanlon)
BTW, in software, hope and pray is not a viable strategy. (Luc Pattyn)Funnily enough, I do know how the Company Hub will work, and it's not aimed at this feature. What I suspect you are thinking of is the new side-load faciility being offered. Basically, your company signs up with Microsoft to become a private App provider - which means that the company becomes responsible for the verification process; apps won't be released to the general market because they will, in effect, be sandboxed. The company will be required to pay a nominal* fee to Microsoft, but they will be able to manage the phone unlocking and app verification process themselves. *I say nominal because I don't know what they are actually charging, but MS have used the term nominal themselves.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
-
Steve Maier wrote:
I wish I had gotten the WP8 SDK early but could not get it
Same here. The silence from MS surrounding the rather bizarre decision to only offer the API to a tiny few has definitely harmed their standing with the faithful, especially as they are going to want to have WP8 apps in the store for day 1 of release. I know that you can still use WP7.5 apps with it, but that's no consolation for those of us who want to experience the new features the phone has available.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
What is really bad for me is that I am actually working on developing a training class for WP development. I wanted to use WP8 and my client did too, but we could not get it, so I am working on WP7 version first. It would have been nice to put out a WP8 version right when WP8 was out. But on the signup to get the SDK, there was no comment sectiont hat I could tell them that.
Steve Maier
-
Funnily enough, I do know how the Company Hub will work, and it's not aimed at this feature. What I suspect you are thinking of is the new side-load faciility being offered. Basically, your company signs up with Microsoft to become a private App provider - which means that the company becomes responsible for the verification process; apps won't be released to the general market because they will, in effect, be sandboxed. The company will be required to pay a nominal* fee to Microsoft, but they will be able to manage the phone unlocking and app verification process themselves. *I say nominal because I don't know what they are actually charging, but MS have used the term nominal themselves.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
Good info Pete, thanks. I paid the $9 (I think) for the Chevron unlock on 7.5 when it was available so I could use my own apps and just have a proper play around with the technology - whether this will still work if I do the 7.8 update remains to be seen! It has been well worth that investment, but as I had no intention of writing a 'public' app, the $99 would be too much to justify possibly. As well as being employed, I do have my own registered company so a nominal* fee to do things through the Company Hub would be worth it - as well as tax deductible ;)
Dave
Binging is like googling, it just feels dirtier. Please take your VB.NET out of our nice case sensitive forum. Astonish us. Be exceptional. (Pete O'Hanlon)
BTW, in software, hope and pray is not a viable strategy. (Luc Pattyn) -
I'm beginning to get into Windows "Metro" (What do they call it now?) development and I figured, "Hey, why not port those apps to Windows Phone?" Then I looked at the Windows Phone website... Oh, $99? Forget it. :wtf: This, in a nutshell, is why I believe WP doesn't fly with developers: Microsoft charges as much as Apple charges to develop for the IOS, but have an astronomically smaller user base. Why would any developer want to do that? :thumbsdown:
While I don't necessarily agree with it, I do understand why a fee is in place. It helps deter (not eliminate) those that are submitting and posting nefarious apps just for malicious activity. Is it possible to distribute your apps outside of the WP8 store?
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"Show me a community that obeys the Ten Commandments and I'll show you a less crowded prison system." - Anonymous
-
While I don't necessarily agree with it, I do understand why a fee is in place. It helps deter (not eliminate) those that are submitting and posting nefarious apps just for malicious activity. Is it possible to distribute your apps outside of the WP8 store?
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"Show me a community that obeys the Ten Commandments and I'll show you a less crowded prison system." - Anonymous
DavidCrow wrote:
Is it possible to distribute your apps outside of the WP8 store
No, as the end user will not be able to 'sideload' the app to their device unless it is developer unlocked - which costs them $99
Dave
Binging is like googling, it just feels dirtier. Please take your VB.NET out of our nice case sensitive forum. Astonish us. Be exceptional. (Pete O'Hanlon)
BTW, in software, hope and pray is not a viable strategy. (Luc Pattyn) -
I'm beginning to get into Windows "Metro" (What do they call it now?) development and I figured, "Hey, why not port those apps to Windows Phone?" Then I looked at the Windows Phone website... Oh, $99? Forget it. :wtf: This, in a nutshell, is why I believe WP doesn't fly with developers: Microsoft charges as much as Apple charges to develop for the IOS, but have an astronomically smaller user base. Why would any developer want to do that? :thumbsdown:
Sure apple has a larger user base. But it also has thousands more developers submitting apps all the time. That means that unless you are willing to spend THOUSANDS to advertise your apps constantly you'll only get maybe 1500 downloads (if your app is free) before you're off the bottom of any of the *new* lists in the market. Once that happens your app is off in purgatory where nobody will ever find it. This is also basically the case in the Windows Phone market but it doesn't happen quite as fast. For my cross platform apps I've had thousands of more downloads for my Windows Phone versions than their apple or android counterparts. So despite the smaller user base your chances of being seen in the Windows Phone market are much higher. That $99 will get you farther in a Windows Phone development than it will for apple.
Play my game Gravity: IOS[^], Android[^], Windows Phone 7[^]
-
Steve Maier wrote:
I wish I had gotten the WP8 SDK early but could not get it
Same here. The silence from MS surrounding the rather bizarre decision to only offer the API to a tiny few has definitely harmed their standing with the faithful, especially as they are going to want to have WP8 apps in the store for day 1 of release. I know that you can still use WP7.5 apps with it, but that's no consolation for those of us who want to experience the new features the phone has available.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
The SDK for WP8 is now available to download from inside of VS2012 at least. It says that I need 5G of space for it. Let the downloading fun begin.
Steve Maier
-
Sure apple has a larger user base. But it also has thousands more developers submitting apps all the time. That means that unless you are willing to spend THOUSANDS to advertise your apps constantly you'll only get maybe 1500 downloads (if your app is free) before you're off the bottom of any of the *new* lists in the market. Once that happens your app is off in purgatory where nobody will ever find it. This is also basically the case in the Windows Phone market but it doesn't happen quite as fast. For my cross platform apps I've had thousands of more downloads for my Windows Phone versions than their apple or android counterparts. So despite the smaller user base your chances of being seen in the Windows Phone market are much higher. That $99 will get you farther in a Windows Phone development than it will for apple.
Play my game Gravity: IOS[^], Android[^], Windows Phone 7[^]
MS just announced that for the next 8 days the cost is $8! I was watching the Build conference via the Channel9 site. Good luck! I hope you guys do build cool Win Phone apps.
jackandred
-
I'm beginning to get into Windows "Metro" (What do they call it now?) development and I figured, "Hey, why not port those apps to Windows Phone?" Then I looked at the Windows Phone website... Oh, $99? Forget it. :wtf: This, in a nutshell, is why I believe WP doesn't fly with developers: Microsoft charges as much as Apple charges to develop for the IOS, but have an astronomically smaller user base. Why would any developer want to do that? :thumbsdown:
Hi GeekForChrist See email below from Jackie Davis, they just announced at BUILD that they've reduced the cost. Its only $8 for the next 8 days. Here's the link http://dev.windowsphone.com/
Lisa Marie Sidlow
-
Hi GeekForChrist See email below from Jackie Davis, they just announced at BUILD that they've reduced the cost. Its only $8 for the next 8 days. Here's the link http://dev.windowsphone.com/
Lisa Marie Sidlow
Still showing as $99 when I go through the process - maybe it'll change soon :confused: Looks like the discount situation is a little more involved than just that. According to Microsoft, "You'll be charged $99 USD or equivalent in your local currency, and we'll refund the difference in the next 30 to 45 days." Ninety-two percent discounts don't just happen overnight, after all. Source: http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/30/microsoft-drops-windows-phone-store-developer-registration-to-8/[^] Edit: Official blog link (near the bottom) http://blogs.windows.com/windows_phone/b/wpdev/archive/2012/10/30/announcing-the-new-windows-phone-8-developer-platform.aspx[^]
Dave
Binging is like googling, it just feels dirtier. Please take your VB.NET out of our nice case sensitive forum. Astonish us. Be exceptional. (Pete O'Hanlon)
BTW, in software, hope and pray is not a viable strategy. (Luc Pattyn) -
Still showing as $99 when I go through the process - maybe it'll change soon :confused: Looks like the discount situation is a little more involved than just that. According to Microsoft, "You'll be charged $99 USD or equivalent in your local currency, and we'll refund the difference in the next 30 to 45 days." Ninety-two percent discounts don't just happen overnight, after all. Source: http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/30/microsoft-drops-windows-phone-store-developer-registration-to-8/[^] Edit: Official blog link (near the bottom) http://blogs.windows.com/windows_phone/b/wpdev/archive/2012/10/30/announcing-the-new-windows-phone-8-developer-platform.aspx[^]
Dave
Binging is like googling, it just feels dirtier. Please take your VB.NET out of our nice case sensitive forum. Astonish us. Be exceptional. (Pete O'Hanlon)
BTW, in software, hope and pray is not a viable strategy. (Luc Pattyn)Hi Dave, I am still watching the Build Conference live stream at [^] They just said it will be posted live in about an hour. Also, if you paid $99 dollars today, they will refund your $91 dollars.
Lisa Marie Sidlow