Video games as art
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It is an original idea in the mechanics of the portal, but under the surface it is a level based puzzle solving game; not that original. The story is pretty decent, but not awe inspiring.
wizardzz wrote:
a level based puzzle solving game; not that original. The story is pretty decent, but not awe inspiring.
How many other level-based puzzle solving games won loads of Game of the Year awards...? Also, what video game does have an awe inspiring story? :doh:
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
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wizardzz wrote:
a level based puzzle solving game; not that original. The story is pretty decent, but not awe inspiring.
How many other level-based puzzle solving games won loads of Game of the Year awards...? Also, what video game does have an awe inspiring story? :doh:
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
Accolades don't make it art. My Cousin Vinny won an Oscar (best supporting actress). My Cousin Vinny is not art. Crash and Chicago won best motion pictures. Not art. Anyways, I think the just picked "cool" games. I was not blown away or even really absorbed in the story line of Portal to be honest. It was short, cool, fun, but not art.
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Accolades don't make it art. My Cousin Vinny won an Oscar (best supporting actress). My Cousin Vinny is not art. Crash and Chicago won best motion pictures. Not art. Anyways, I think the just picked "cool" games. I was not blown away or even really absorbed in the story line of Portal to be honest. It was short, cool, fun, but not art.
wizardzz wrote:
My Cousin Vinny is not art.
GET OUT! :laugh:
wizardzz wrote:
I think they just picked "cool" games.
What games would you select to be part of the exhibit?
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
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wizardzz wrote:
My Cousin Vinny is not art.
GET OUT! :laugh:
wizardzz wrote:
I think they just picked "cool" games.
What games would you select to be part of the exhibit?
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
Probably the games in which the songs, images, and stories effected my dreams. The Legend of Zelda for NES is an example of that. Probably some of the better Final Fantasies. Possibly the original Mortal Kombat. (I took the time to learn how to draw, just to draw the characters for MKI and MKII). Since it's an exhibit on Contemporary Art, perhaps the influence on pop culture could be weighted, then Portal would definitely be included. I will give it that, "The cake is a lie." is one of the best single video game lines.
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Probably the games in which the songs, images, and stories effected my dreams. The Legend of Zelda for NES is an example of that. Probably some of the better Final Fantasies. Possibly the original Mortal Kombat. (I took the time to learn how to draw, just to draw the characters for MKI and MKII). Since it's an exhibit on Contemporary Art, perhaps the influence on pop culture could be weighted, then Portal would definitely be included. I will give it that, "The cake is a lie." is one of the best single video game lines.
I think they plan on getting The Legend of Zelda, and I would assume that at least one Final Fantasy will make an appearance eventually. I also noticed the lack of fighting games, but in the list of games they want, they have Street Fighter II which is arguably the greatest fighting game there is.
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
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The definition of art is subjective, obviously. But to me art is supposed to invoke a strong reaction; awe, disgust, self examination, etc. Portal and its world are cool and original, but not qualified as art in my opinion; not more-so than many other games.
wizardzz wrote:
The definition of art is subjective
True, I have many different categories/definitions of art. One is traditional art (paintings and such). Some art something which simply alters a medium (e.g., the first person to add physical depth to paintings with extra materials). Other forms of art initially defy categorization, and that is what makes them art. I would categorize Portal as avant-garde. I guess I place the most value on art that is novel. Others, like yourself, feel more strongly about art that evokes a reaction. I suppose each perspective shares some of the other; novel ideas tend to evoke reactions, and evocative art is in many cases novel.
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It is an original idea in the mechanics of the portal, but under the surface it is a level based puzzle solving game; not that original. The story is pretty decent, but not awe inspiring.
wizardzz wrote:
under the surface it is a level based puzzle solving game
Under the surface of the Mona Lisa and Michelangelo's David is just paint and stone (or whatever it's made of). :)
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wizardzz wrote:
under the surface it is a level based puzzle solving game
Under the surface of the Mona Lisa and Michelangelo's David is just paint and stone (or whatever it's made of). :)
Hmmm, not the best analogy. If you said Mona Lisa was a portrait of an ugly woman, and David a sculpture of a badly endowed man, you'd be accurate. Your analogy is better suited if I were to have called Portal, a bunch of 1's and 0's under the surface. ;P
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Hmmm, not the best analogy. If you said Mona Lisa was a portrait of an ugly woman, and David a sculpture of a badly endowed man, you'd be accurate. Your analogy is better suited if I were to have called Portal, a bunch of 1's and 0's under the surface. ;P
I was considering using "painting and sculpture" instead, but I didn't like the sentence construction. Aesthetics are very important, you see.
wizardzz wrote:
Mona Lisa was a portrait of an ugly woman
Or an attractive man.
wizardzz wrote:
David a sculpture of a badly endowed man
Or a well endowed woman.
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I was considering using "painting and sculpture" instead, but I didn't like the sentence construction. Aesthetics are very important, you see.
wizardzz wrote:
Mona Lisa was a portrait of an ugly woman
Or an attractive man.
wizardzz wrote:
David a sculpture of a badly endowed man
Or a well endowed woman.
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I agree that it's art. Some of the scenery and the characters are truly amazing. To be able to conceptualize it and draw/paint it, I definitely couldn't do. On the other hand my son is going to Full Sail in Orlando, FL and getting a degree in Game Art. He has a eye for that type of stuff. He definitely didn't get that talent from me.
If you can’t have fun at work, then why go to work?
Could I suggest that we consider the technical aspects as art as well? A game like tetris is not great in visual stuff, but it's an art to take something that simple and make it as successful as tetris is (dunno how financially successful it is though). The 'user satisfaction' levels of tetris / pacman / etc is also so unexpected I would like to suggest that it is an art.
____________________________________________________________ Be brave little warrior, be VERY brave
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Accolades don't make it art. My Cousin Vinny won an Oscar (best supporting actress). My Cousin Vinny is not art. Crash and Chicago won best motion pictures. Not art. Anyways, I think the just picked "cool" games. I was not blown away or even really absorbed in the story line of Portal to be honest. It was short, cool, fun, but not art.
As the germans say: "Kunst liegt im Auge des Betrachters" means, art lies in the eye of the spectator. There are many many forms of art. I personally think every code we write is a form of art. It all depends of your point of view. What for you is art for others may just be a waste of time and otherwise. I personally would not say that this LINK[^] is art...looks like somebody vomited on it.
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
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MoMA (The Museum of Modern Art) in New York City has decided that video games are art, and they are opening an exhibit this spring dedicated to this newly declared art. So far they have acquired 14 games for the exhibit. What say you CP? Clickety[^]
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
Definitely Art: Bethesda´s Elder Scrolls (when it come´s to it´s Online Version which will be launched sometime next year, then it will become something above Art...I guess it becomes divine...!!!) Myst and it´s Sequel Riven was my 2nd thought, et voilà, Myst is already in the list :cool:
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MoMA (The Museum of Modern Art) in New York City has decided that video games are art, and they are opening an exhibit this spring dedicated to this newly declared art. So far they have acquired 14 games for the exhibit. What say you CP? Clickety[^]
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
Art is whatever you can get away with.
"Microsoft -- Adding unnecessary complexity to your work since 1987!"
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MoMA (The Museum of Modern Art) in New York City has decided that video games are art, and they are opening an exhibit this spring dedicated to this newly declared art. So far they have acquired 14 games for the exhibit. What say you CP? Clickety[^]
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
Interesting. I've been an avid gamer for a long time and I've been waiting for games to come along that are truly works of art. I'm still waiting, gaming doesn't have its Citizen Kane yet. Not for lack of quality, games have become really amazing, but the focus is on commercial entertainment rather than art. Most games are like summer blockbuster movies: incredibly well-made and entertaining, but forget about the Oscars. I think that the main problem is the writing, games tend to focus on gameplay (naturally) and writing is often an afterthought, sometimes with comically bad results. Writing is getting better particularly when it comes to dialog (the Uncharted series is a good example), but it's still more like good hack writing for a blockbuster movie, not serious art. Game studios are starting to take the writing and voice acting seriously, so at least we're getting beyond the stage of having a plot thrown together by designers and programmers with no writing background, and voice-acted by whoever is in the office. Pros are starting to be used these days, but it's mostly hack work, because using professional writers and actors is expensive and the safest way to get a return is to make the equivalent of a summer action flick. I think that games are getting there, but the writing needs to evolve before they truly become art. Half-Life (by no means an early game) was revolutionary partly because it actually had a plot, that's how much writing has lagged in gaming. There are some well-written games out there, but not so much on the level of literary art. Many aspects of games such as gameplay, visual art, and music are already often on the level of serious art, but before games as a whole become an art form the writing needs to catch up.
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Art is whatever you can get away with.
"Microsoft -- Adding unnecessary complexity to your work since 1987!"
Alan Balkany wrote:
Art is whatever you can get away with.
Does that mean all artists are thieves? What about art thieves? ;P
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
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MoMA (The Museum of Modern Art) in New York City has decided that video games are art, and they are opening an exhibit this spring dedicated to this newly declared art. So far they have acquired 14 games for the exhibit. What say you CP? Clickety[^]
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
All i have to say is that if Warhol was alive, he would be there.
CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...
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Interesting. I've been an avid gamer for a long time and I've been waiting for games to come along that are truly works of art. I'm still waiting, gaming doesn't have its Citizen Kane yet. Not for lack of quality, games have become really amazing, but the focus is on commercial entertainment rather than art. Most games are like summer blockbuster movies: incredibly well-made and entertaining, but forget about the Oscars. I think that the main problem is the writing, games tend to focus on gameplay (naturally) and writing is often an afterthought, sometimes with comically bad results. Writing is getting better particularly when it comes to dialog (the Uncharted series is a good example), but it's still more like good hack writing for a blockbuster movie, not serious art. Game studios are starting to take the writing and voice acting seriously, so at least we're getting beyond the stage of having a plot thrown together by designers and programmers with no writing background, and voice-acted by whoever is in the office. Pros are starting to be used these days, but it's mostly hack work, because using professional writers and actors is expensive and the safest way to get a return is to make the equivalent of a summer action flick. I think that games are getting there, but the writing needs to evolve before they truly become art. Half-Life (by no means an early game) was revolutionary partly because it actually had a plot, that's how much writing has lagged in gaming. There are some well-written games out there, but not so much on the level of literary art. Many aspects of games such as gameplay, visual art, and music are already often on the level of serious art, but before games as a whole become an art form the writing needs to catch up.
While I agree with most of what you said, the problem is that you are comparing two completely different mediums. A great movie, such as The Godfather or It's a Wonderful Life, is all about the story and the execution of that story. A great game needs to have so much more than that. To expect them to be able to write and execute stories that are at the same level, but still have all of the other things necessary such as innovative gameplay and graphics, is to expect too much. It would be like comparing some piece of modern art made of wood to a beautiful rocking chair made by a master carpenter. They have similar roots, but the art piece is made for one reason, to look nice. The rocking chair, on the other hand, has to achieve so much more. So yes, it may not look as nice and thought provoking as the piece of art, but that's because it has a different purpose.
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
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All i have to say is that if Warhol was alive, he would be there.
CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...
:thumbsup:
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
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While I agree with most of what you said, the problem is that you are comparing two completely different mediums. A great movie, such as The Godfather or It's a Wonderful Life, is all about the story and the execution of that story. A great game needs to have so much more than that. To expect them to be able to write and execute stories that are at the same level, but still have all of the other things necessary such as innovative gameplay and graphics, is to expect too much. It would be like comparing some piece of modern art made of wood to a beautiful rocking chair made by a master carpenter. They have similar roots, but the art piece is made for one reason, to look nice. The rocking chair, on the other hand, has to achieve so much more. So yes, it may not look as nice and thought provoking as the piece of art, but that's because it has a different purpose.
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
I get what you're saying, but I don't think it's too much to expect, though it's certainly a lot to expect. The problem is that storytelling requires a different approach in gaming than in fiction or film making, and the gaming industry is still figuring that out. Mostly they have gone for cinematic storytelling, often at the expense of gameplay. I don't think it's impossible to have great storytelling and gameplay, but that's still evolving. Other aspects of games are on the level of serious art, for example Myst is a collection of very interesting visual art, and American McGee's Alice has music that is on the level of art. I think that writing can get there too, but game studios need to figure out how to do great storytelling in the context of a game; that's something that's still being figured out I think.
