Oregon Shooting
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And in ancient Egypt, they used to have slaves. Medieval ages, or the holocaust were a different era, and to a certain extent, even Serbia is, at least a different context. Most were country that lived under some type of dictatorship (religious or other). And in this case, yes, civilians may have the use for guns. Though a lot of the massacres would not have happened, or not to the same extent if some of the civilians did not have guns to massacre the others. Certainly the massacres in Serbia are a recent thing, but they are not, and were even less a few yaers ago anything like a democracy as we have them in Europe and the US. At least by not having guns in Europe (I talk a about western Europe, the EU mostly) we have to sort our problem in other way than by using guns, most of the time. :) Not everything is perfect in our society, but we still don't need gun in the possession of most civilians; and we are not less free for it.
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Mendor81 wrote:
Ahh so we're europeans have a more violent history you say? ohh good i forgot that, thanks for the reminder.
I would never claim that we are less violent as I'm aware of American history. You made that claim for Europeans - it is a claim easily refuted by the facts.
Mendor81 wrote:
Having that many guns in a country doesn't make you safer.
I wasn't making any claim whatsoever for guns. I was only responding to the wildly ridiculous notions that Europeans have learned the ways of peace. After WWI in the USA we actually created the 'Peace Dollar'. It was a silver dollar coin that was to celebrate a new age of understanding among men. The war in Europe was so bad we were sure that it wouldn't happen again. They stopped making them in 1933 - in only 20 years Europe was in it's second world war. Don't fall for the illusion that a short time of peace means mankind has learned something. History is puncuated by these short times of peace - bookended by long seasons of absolute war and chaos. You're statement that "we've resolve our differences peacefully" means you've mistaken intermission for a new permanent condition. I lol at that.
You're statement that "we've resolve our differences peacefully" means you've mistaken intermission for a new permanent condition.
You do realize that my statement was regarding civilian disputes inside a country not between nations which fight with military?
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
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Link[^] Yeah..2nd amendment makes perfectly sense if you're able to own semiautomatics... Or maybe he just was pissed at all the Christmas shoppers
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
I have never went on a killing spree and murdered a bunch of people, JSOP, how about you?
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
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I have never went on a killing spree and murdered a bunch of people, JSOP, how about you?
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
me neither. But i don't need a gun to feel safe. Do you own one? if so why? does it really make you feel safe? and what would you use it for if you use it?
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
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Intentionally wiping out all of mankind would prevent even more accidental deaths.
Now that would be a definitive solution ;P Besides i don't think you can compare unintentional death's by accident (may that be by car accidents or poisoning or even household accidents) with premeditate murder. Gun's don't fire themselves, you have to pull the trigger and switch off safety. A car or any other "accident" is more likely to happen. And i don't think that as a normal person you have the same kind of NEED to posses a gun that you have to own a car, or painkiller for that matter
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
Mendor81 wrote:
Besides i don't think you can compare unintentional death's by accident (may that be by car accidents or poisoning or even household accidents) with premeditate murder.
Sure you can. They have an element in common: someone dies. And there are difference, as is usually the case with things being compared. One such difference is that murder can't realistically be solved. Reason 1: guns aren't the only potentially deadly weapon. Heck, you don't even need a weapon, just throw them off a building. Reason 2: criminals ignore the rules anyway, an old an tired argument I know, but it's true. Case in point: Brazil. So what's the point? And what is your goal, exactly?
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me neither. But i don't need a gun to feel safe. Do you own one? if so why? does it really make you feel safe? and what would you use it for if you use it?
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
I don't think a gun or not having a gun adds to any feeling of security I may have, I still leave me front door unlocked sometimes because I forget. That said, in the middle of the night, robberies do occur and in the decision between leaving a potential witness against an unlawful, armed entry (which is a big time, multi-year felony) and leaving a corpse, there is a liklihood of the latter. And while my prowess with a weapon matches my prowess as an NFL Quarterback, I would at least like to have the option to have a parlais with the offender before my fate is sealed. Plus I need to be prepared for other scenarios, Zombie Apocalypse wear society is run by the emotional beautiful people that kill the strong to feed the weak (they are scarier than the zombies), Red Dawn Scenario, Independence Day Scenario, Revolution Scenario, etc. The real cool thing about being free and having rights, is that I don't have to justify my desire
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
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Mendor81 wrote:
Besides i don't think you can compare unintentional death's by accident (may that be by car accidents or poisoning or even household accidents) with premeditate murder.
Sure you can. They have an element in common: someone dies. And there are difference, as is usually the case with things being compared. One such difference is that murder can't realistically be solved. Reason 1: guns aren't the only potentially deadly weapon. Heck, you don't even need a weapon, just throw them off a building. Reason 2: criminals ignore the rules anyway, an old an tired argument I know, but it's true. Case in point: Brazil. So what's the point? And what is your goal, exactly?
One such difference is that murder can't realistically be solved.
Reason 1: guns aren't the only potentially deadly weapon. Heck, you don't even need a weapon, just throw them off a building.That is true, but i give you a situation: in which case it's more likely to get killed/shoot someone (depending on which side you are) A man in the US with guns comes home finds his wife cheating with another man, he goes for the gun and shoots. because he's angry and temporary blinded by jealousy and hate. Can happen to everybody. In europe he has no gun at home, so how to channel this temporary hate and rage? He would probably beat the shit out of the guy, definitly swear and yell the hell out of but not necessarly end in death. my point is that given the legal right to own a weapon increases the possibility of crime happening in your own environment. The easier the access to something the more likely it is to happen.
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
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I don't think he was talking about accidental death. The difference is that in one case (cars, poisonning) it is mostly accidental death. In the other case (fire arms), it is mostly intentional death. One of the problem with the US is that there are so many fire arms around anyway, that removing them won't especially solve the problem of some people going to kill each other. Not for years at best. So I am not sure it makes sense anyway. But mostly, not having fire arms works as well, as is the case in most Europe. You might like them, but civilians don't need to have them. And we don't feel less free (or more) because of that. :) Freedom must have limits anyway, you know, things like don't kill or steal or forget to pay your taxes...
Elrond wrote:
The difference is that in one case (cars, poisoning) it is mostly accidental death. In the other case (fire arms), it is mostly intentional death.
But with baseball bats, it's ALWAYS intentional.
Elrond wrote:
But mostly, not having fire arms works as well, as is the case in most Europe. You might like them, but civilians don't need to have them. :)
You may think you don't need firearms, but you're not us, so don't get all holier-than-thou where American's attitudes where firearms are concerned. You simply don't have the same history we do.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
I don't think a gun or not having a gun adds to any feeling of security I may have, I still leave me front door unlocked sometimes because I forget. That said, in the middle of the night, robberies do occur and in the decision between leaving a potential witness against an unlawful, armed entry (which is a big time, multi-year felony) and leaving a corpse, there is a liklihood of the latter. And while my prowess with a weapon matches my prowess as an NFL Quarterback, I would at least like to have the option to have a parlais with the offender before my fate is sealed. Plus I need to be prepared for other scenarios, Zombie Apocalypse wear society is run by the emotional beautiful people that kill the strong to feed the weak (they are scarier than the zombies), Red Dawn Scenario, Independence Day Scenario, Revolution Scenario, etc. The real cool thing about being free and having rights, is that I don't have to justify my desire
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
What do you have alarms and police for? We have robberies over here as well and in plain daylight. happened to a neighbor of mine. nobody got killed in the process. Neither he or i feel the need to go out and buy a gun. We did install alarms that same week though.
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
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What do you have alarms and police for? We have robberies over here as well and in plain daylight. happened to a neighbor of mine. nobody got killed in the process. Neither he or i feel the need to go out and buy a gun. We did install alarms that same week though.
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
Some people pay $20 a month for a 10 minute response time, others pay $499 once for a .5ms response time. Potato, potato.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
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Elrond wrote:
The difference is that in one case (cars, poisoning) it is mostly accidental death. In the other case (fire arms), it is mostly intentional death.
But with baseball bats, it's ALWAYS intentional.
Elrond wrote:
But mostly, not having fire arms works as well, as is the case in most Europe. You might like them, but civilians don't need to have them. :)
You may think you don't need firearms, but you're not us, so don't get all holier-than-thou where American's attitudes where firearms are concerned. You simply don't have the same history we do.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997Quote:
You simply don't have the same history we do.
Actually, if you go back a sufficient number of years we have exactly the same history as you. In the short term you have a similar history to Canada which has a much lower level of violence with a slightly higher level of gun ownership so obviously your problem is that you don't play enough ice hockey! I understand that the NHL is not going to play this season so let's check the death rate by the end of this season to see if I am right.
- Life in the fast lane is only fun if you live in a country with no speed limits. - Of all the things I have lost, it is my mind that I miss the most. - I vaguely remember having a good memory...
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Elrond wrote:
The difference is that in one case (cars, poisoning) it is mostly accidental death. In the other case (fire arms), it is mostly intentional death.
But with baseball bats, it's ALWAYS intentional.
Elrond wrote:
But mostly, not having fire arms works as well, as is the case in most Europe. You might like them, but civilians don't need to have them. :)
You may think you don't need firearms, but you're not us, so don't get all holier-than-thou where American's attitudes where firearms are concerned. You simply don't have the same history we do.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997But with baseball bats, it's ALWAYS intentional.
You can outrun and dodge a person armed with a baseball bat. try that with a gun pointed.
You simply don't have the same history we do.
Right....we didn't slaughter innocent natives by colonizing land that wasn't ours. We didn't burn anyone which didn't followed the same religous beliefs we did. We didn't had that many wars and revolutions as you did.....oh wait we do have a worse history then you. But still things developed differently i wonder why. Really, i apologize if this seems like trolling, i just want to understand where and why things developed over there the way they did and why your country is one of the countries with the most deaths caused by firearms then the rest of the relatively peaceful countries in the EU.
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
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Mendor81 wrote:
Ahh so we're europeans have a more violent history you say? ohh good i forgot that, thanks for the reminder.
I would never claim that we are less violent as I'm aware of American history. You made that claim for Europeans - it is a claim easily refuted by the facts.
Mendor81 wrote:
Having that many guns in a country doesn't make you safer.
I wasn't making any claim whatsoever for guns. I was only responding to the wildly ridiculous notions that Europeans have learned the ways of peace. After WWI in the USA we actually created the 'Peace Dollar'. It was a silver dollar coin that was to celebrate a new age of understanding among men. The war in Europe was so bad we were sure that it wouldn't happen again. They stopped making them in 1933 - in only 20 years Europe was in it's second world war. Don't fall for the illusion that a short time of peace means mankind has learned something. History is puncuated by these short times of peace - bookended by long seasons of absolute war and chaos. You're statement that "we've resolve our differences peacefully" means you've mistaken intermission for a new permanent condition. I lol at that.
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After WWII in the USA we actually created the 'Peace Dollar'.
I assume you meant "WWI".
- Life in the fast lane is only fun if you live in a country with no speed limits. - Of all the things I have lost, it is my mind that I miss the most. - I vaguely remember having a good memory...
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You're statement that "we've resolve our differences peacefully" means you've mistaken intermission for a new permanent condition.
You do realize that my statement was regarding civilian disputes inside a country not between nations which fight with military?
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
Mendor81 wrote:
You do realize that my statement was regarding civilian disputes inside a country not between nations which fight with military?
A military is composed of the country's citizens. A military is; therefore, an expression of the collective will of the people. I'd recommend ditching the regional superiority thing you've got going on there and realize that people everywhere, at their core, are basically the same thing. A culture cannot learn a lesson - only people learn lessons - and once the students have passed away the next generation has to learn many of the lessons all over again. That is why war is cyclic as each generation has to get it's fill. Of course, if you deny any of that I'll just continue to read, with interest, the news reports we're getting of the rise of the extreme right in Europe. Time will lay bare the arrogance behind the ridiculous notion of "we're learned to resolve our differences peacefully".
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Quote:
After WWII in the USA we actually created the 'Peace Dollar'.
I assume you meant "WWI".
- Life in the fast lane is only fun if you live in a country with no speed limits. - Of all the things I have lost, it is my mind that I miss the most. - I vaguely remember having a good memory...
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Ahh so we're europeans have a more violent history you say? ohh good i forgot that, thanks for the reminder. By the way how are the native Americans thinking about the genocide your settlers provoke? what about your civil war? Every nation on earth has a violent history, people are violent be nature. but that doesn't mean that modern day society should encourage that kind of behavior by keeping a right to something that has no other purpose then killing. If you say you need a gun for hunting, sport or what ever. Ok i can understand but what other purpose then bringing misery to relatives does a m16 have in civilian hands? Having that many guns in a country doesn't make you safer. it's more the other way around, more guns and the overwhelming culture of fear just makes a population more and more paranoid.
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
Mendor81 wrote:
By the way how are the native Americans thinking about the genocide your settlers provoke?
You mean the "settlers" that came from Europe? Native Americans had insufficient means to defend themselves (essentially sticks and rocks against the firearms of the time). Same deal - the "people" were slaughtered because they couldn't really defend themselves.
Mendor81 wrote:
what about your civil war?
That was about money. Anyone that thinks i9t was about slavery is deluding themselves. Slavery was simply a more tangible indicator.
Mendor81 wrote:
Every nation on earth has a violent history, people are violent be nature. but that doesn't mean that modern day society should encourage that kind of behavior by keeping a right to something that has no other purpose then killing.
You mean like knives, swords, and bows and arrows? You know why it's okay to have those things? I refer you to the Native American thing that you brought up.
Mendor81 wrote:
If you say you need a gun for hunting, sport or what ever. Ok i can understand but what other purpose then bringing misery to relatives does a m16 have in civilian hands?
An M-16 is capable of fully automatic fire, and is a NFA Title 2 weapon, and you must submit a request to own one, as well as pay a $200 tax. There aren't many of them in civilian hands, and none have been used in the commission of any of the recent "mass shootings". The recent "batman shooting" involved a semi-automatic version of an AK-47. I have two AR-15s, and my relatives aren't in misery over it. I don't hunt. I use to do sport shooting.
Mendor81 wrote:
Having that many guns in a country doesn't make you safer. it's more the other way around, more guns and the overwhelming culture of fear just makes a population more and more paranoid.
How many guns do you think are in civilian hands? How many gun owners do you think there are? ( I know both of these answers, I'm just seeing if you know what you're talking about, or if you're just spouting some alarmist liberal bullsh*t, which I suspect is the case).
".45 ACP - becaus
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And in ancient Egypt, they used to have slaves. Medieval ages, or the holocaust were a different era, and to a certain extent, even Serbia is, at least a different context. Most were country that lived under some type of dictatorship (religious or other). And in this case, yes, civilians may have the use for guns. Though a lot of the massacres would not have happened, or not to the same extent if some of the civilians did not have guns to massacre the others. Certainly the massacres in Serbia are a recent thing, but they are not, and were even less a few yaers ago anything like a democracy as we have them in Europe and the US. At least by not having guns in Europe (I talk a about western Europe, the EU mostly) we have to sort our problem in other way than by using guns, most of the time. :) Not everything is perfect in our society, but we still don't need gun in the possession of most civilians; and we are not less free for it.
Elrond wrote:
Most were country that lived under some type of dictatorship (religious or other). And in this case, yes, civilians may have the use for guns.
And our 2nd Amendment is supposed to keep that from happening here. I think you understand, you just don't want to agree because if you do, all your other bullsh*t statements fall apart.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
I have never went on a killing spree and murdered a bunch of people, JSOP, how about you?
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
Nope. I did shoot a guy in the Philippines while on watch in the Navy once, but he was trying to steal the brass fittings on our fire hoses, and he wouldn't stop when I have him the required three warnings. 30 yards, in the dark, with a 1911M1, and it was pouring rain. Shot him through the left femur.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
What do you have alarms and police for? We have robberies over here as well and in plain daylight. happened to a neighbor of mine. nobody got killed in the process. Neither he or i feel the need to go out and buy a gun. We did install alarms that same week though.
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
Mendor81 wrote:
What do you have alarms and police for?
Unfortunately we don't always have the police to cover the crime here. I was recently in Miami and discussing the city. They have enough police to cover 70% of all major crimes. That means if they devoted all officers to major crimes, 30% of major crimes and 100% of crimes that are not considered major (petty robbery, DUI, etc.). I wouldn't want to take my chances to see if I get a response in time or not. That said, the best protection to feel "safe" is to not put yourself in that situation. I live in a relatively safe area, I own firearms but they are not for safety, they are for recreation and competition shooting. When they are not in use, they are locked up with the ammo locked in a different box that uses a different key. The SO and I joke that if our place was ever broken into, she would have time to fix them a cup of tea before I could get everything loaded.
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One such difference is that murder can't realistically be solved.
Reason 1: guns aren't the only potentially deadly weapon. Heck, you don't even need a weapon, just throw them off a building.That is true, but i give you a situation: in which case it's more likely to get killed/shoot someone (depending on which side you are) A man in the US with guns comes home finds his wife cheating with another man, he goes for the gun and shoots. because he's angry and temporary blinded by jealousy and hate. Can happen to everybody. In europe he has no gun at home, so how to channel this temporary hate and rage? He would probably beat the shit out of the guy, definitly swear and yell the hell out of but not necessarly end in death. my point is that given the legal right to own a weapon increases the possibility of crime happening in your own environment. The easier the access to something the more likely it is to happen.
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer