Oregon Shooting
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Mendor81 wrote:
Ahh so we're europeans have a more violent history you say? ohh good i forgot that, thanks for the reminder.
I would never claim that we are less violent as I'm aware of American history. You made that claim for Europeans - it is a claim easily refuted by the facts.
Mendor81 wrote:
Having that many guns in a country doesn't make you safer.
I wasn't making any claim whatsoever for guns. I was only responding to the wildly ridiculous notions that Europeans have learned the ways of peace. After WWI in the USA we actually created the 'Peace Dollar'. It was a silver dollar coin that was to celebrate a new age of understanding among men. The war in Europe was so bad we were sure that it wouldn't happen again. They stopped making them in 1933 - in only 20 years Europe was in it's second world war. Don't fall for the illusion that a short time of peace means mankind has learned something. History is puncuated by these short times of peace - bookended by long seasons of absolute war and chaos. You're statement that "we've resolve our differences peacefully" means you've mistaken intermission for a new permanent condition. I lol at that.
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After WWII in the USA we actually created the 'Peace Dollar'.
I assume you meant "WWI".
- Life in the fast lane is only fun if you live in a country with no speed limits. - Of all the things I have lost, it is my mind that I miss the most. - I vaguely remember having a good memory...
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Quote:
After WWII in the USA we actually created the 'Peace Dollar'.
I assume you meant "WWI".
- Life in the fast lane is only fun if you live in a country with no speed limits. - Of all the things I have lost, it is my mind that I miss the most. - I vaguely remember having a good memory...
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Ahh so we're europeans have a more violent history you say? ohh good i forgot that, thanks for the reminder. By the way how are the native Americans thinking about the genocide your settlers provoke? what about your civil war? Every nation on earth has a violent history, people are violent be nature. but that doesn't mean that modern day society should encourage that kind of behavior by keeping a right to something that has no other purpose then killing. If you say you need a gun for hunting, sport or what ever. Ok i can understand but what other purpose then bringing misery to relatives does a m16 have in civilian hands? Having that many guns in a country doesn't make you safer. it's more the other way around, more guns and the overwhelming culture of fear just makes a population more and more paranoid.
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
Mendor81 wrote:
By the way how are the native Americans thinking about the genocide your settlers provoke?
You mean the "settlers" that came from Europe? Native Americans had insufficient means to defend themselves (essentially sticks and rocks against the firearms of the time). Same deal - the "people" were slaughtered because they couldn't really defend themselves.
Mendor81 wrote:
what about your civil war?
That was about money. Anyone that thinks i9t was about slavery is deluding themselves. Slavery was simply a more tangible indicator.
Mendor81 wrote:
Every nation on earth has a violent history, people are violent be nature. but that doesn't mean that modern day society should encourage that kind of behavior by keeping a right to something that has no other purpose then killing.
You mean like knives, swords, and bows and arrows? You know why it's okay to have those things? I refer you to the Native American thing that you brought up.
Mendor81 wrote:
If you say you need a gun for hunting, sport or what ever. Ok i can understand but what other purpose then bringing misery to relatives does a m16 have in civilian hands?
An M-16 is capable of fully automatic fire, and is a NFA Title 2 weapon, and you must submit a request to own one, as well as pay a $200 tax. There aren't many of them in civilian hands, and none have been used in the commission of any of the recent "mass shootings". The recent "batman shooting" involved a semi-automatic version of an AK-47. I have two AR-15s, and my relatives aren't in misery over it. I don't hunt. I use to do sport shooting.
Mendor81 wrote:
Having that many guns in a country doesn't make you safer. it's more the other way around, more guns and the overwhelming culture of fear just makes a population more and more paranoid.
How many guns do you think are in civilian hands? How many gun owners do you think there are? ( I know both of these answers, I'm just seeing if you know what you're talking about, or if you're just spouting some alarmist liberal bullsh*t, which I suspect is the case).
".45 ACP - becaus
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And in ancient Egypt, they used to have slaves. Medieval ages, or the holocaust were a different era, and to a certain extent, even Serbia is, at least a different context. Most were country that lived under some type of dictatorship (religious or other). And in this case, yes, civilians may have the use for guns. Though a lot of the massacres would not have happened, or not to the same extent if some of the civilians did not have guns to massacre the others. Certainly the massacres in Serbia are a recent thing, but they are not, and were even less a few yaers ago anything like a democracy as we have them in Europe and the US. At least by not having guns in Europe (I talk a about western Europe, the EU mostly) we have to sort our problem in other way than by using guns, most of the time. :) Not everything is perfect in our society, but we still don't need gun in the possession of most civilians; and we are not less free for it.
Elrond wrote:
Most were country that lived under some type of dictatorship (religious or other). And in this case, yes, civilians may have the use for guns.
And our 2nd Amendment is supposed to keep that from happening here. I think you understand, you just don't want to agree because if you do, all your other bullsh*t statements fall apart.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
I have never went on a killing spree and murdered a bunch of people, JSOP, how about you?
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
Nope. I did shoot a guy in the Philippines while on watch in the Navy once, but he was trying to steal the brass fittings on our fire hoses, and he wouldn't stop when I have him the required three warnings. 30 yards, in the dark, with a 1911M1, and it was pouring rain. Shot him through the left femur.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
What do you have alarms and police for? We have robberies over here as well and in plain daylight. happened to a neighbor of mine. nobody got killed in the process. Neither he or i feel the need to go out and buy a gun. We did install alarms that same week though.
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
Mendor81 wrote:
What do you have alarms and police for?
Unfortunately we don't always have the police to cover the crime here. I was recently in Miami and discussing the city. They have enough police to cover 70% of all major crimes. That means if they devoted all officers to major crimes, 30% of major crimes and 100% of crimes that are not considered major (petty robbery, DUI, etc.). I wouldn't want to take my chances to see if I get a response in time or not. That said, the best protection to feel "safe" is to not put yourself in that situation. I live in a relatively safe area, I own firearms but they are not for safety, they are for recreation and competition shooting. When they are not in use, they are locked up with the ammo locked in a different box that uses a different key. The SO and I joke that if our place was ever broken into, she would have time to fix them a cup of tea before I could get everything loaded.
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One such difference is that murder can't realistically be solved.
Reason 1: guns aren't the only potentially deadly weapon. Heck, you don't even need a weapon, just throw them off a building.That is true, but i give you a situation: in which case it's more likely to get killed/shoot someone (depending on which side you are) A man in the US with guns comes home finds his wife cheating with another man, he goes for the gun and shoots. because he's angry and temporary blinded by jealousy and hate. Can happen to everybody. In europe he has no gun at home, so how to channel this temporary hate and rage? He would probably beat the shit out of the guy, definitly swear and yell the hell out of but not necessarly end in death. my point is that given the legal right to own a weapon increases the possibility of crime happening in your own environment. The easier the access to something the more likely it is to happen.
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
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Wrong forum. However. "police said the suspect was "neutralised" before confirming his death." Does that mean they shot his cock off first?
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends. Shed Petition[^]
That would be "neutered" I guess.
ChrisElston wrote:
Wrong forum.
Not the Topic itself IMO, but I understand that mentioning 2nd amendment might be considered overstepping.
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Mendor81 wrote:
.2nd amendment makes perfectly sense if you're able to own semiautomatics...
Yes, it does. Europeans don't need to own firearms because their liberties and rights have already been infringed, and they're used to living that way. Americans don't want to live that way.
Mendor81 wrote:
Or maybe he just was pissed at all the Christmas shoppers
Unfortunately, he appears to have killed himself, so we can only guess at why he did it. Given the fact that he only used 1/3 of the capacity of his magazine in a crowded mall, I suspect the victims were people he knows. Of course, assuming that the mainstream media is doing its usual bang-up job, he may not have used a semi-auto rifle at all. This is what journalists use to identify weapons: Journalist Weapon Identification Guide[^]
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
because their liberties and rights have already been infringed
:laugh: Cute, John, cute.
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Mendor81 wrote:
By the way how are the native Americans thinking about the genocide your settlers provoke?
You mean the "settlers" that came from Europe? Native Americans had insufficient means to defend themselves (essentially sticks and rocks against the firearms of the time). Same deal - the "people" were slaughtered because they couldn't really defend themselves.
Mendor81 wrote:
what about your civil war?
That was about money. Anyone that thinks i9t was about slavery is deluding themselves. Slavery was simply a more tangible indicator.
Mendor81 wrote:
Every nation on earth has a violent history, people are violent be nature. but that doesn't mean that modern day society should encourage that kind of behavior by keeping a right to something that has no other purpose then killing.
You mean like knives, swords, and bows and arrows? You know why it's okay to have those things? I refer you to the Native American thing that you brought up.
Mendor81 wrote:
If you say you need a gun for hunting, sport or what ever. Ok i can understand but what other purpose then bringing misery to relatives does a m16 have in civilian hands?
An M-16 is capable of fully automatic fire, and is a NFA Title 2 weapon, and you must submit a request to own one, as well as pay a $200 tax. There aren't many of them in civilian hands, and none have been used in the commission of any of the recent "mass shootings". The recent "batman shooting" involved a semi-automatic version of an AK-47. I have two AR-15s, and my relatives aren't in misery over it. I don't hunt. I use to do sport shooting.
Mendor81 wrote:
Having that many guns in a country doesn't make you safer. it's more the other way around, more guns and the overwhelming culture of fear just makes a population more and more paranoid.
How many guns do you think are in civilian hands? How many gun owners do you think there are? ( I know both of these answers, I'm just seeing if you know what you're talking about, or if you're just spouting some alarmist liberal bullsh*t, which I suspect is the case).
".45 ACP - becaus
Here is a good relation of numbers and percentages[^] Spain has 4.500.000 firearms that means roughly a 10% of our population is armed. US has 270.000.000 firearms thats an 88.8 percent of the population according to the source. It's not the worst country judging by death's by firearms but number 28 is pretty high considering that the us is a internally political stable country oposed to honduras for example.
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
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That would be "neutered" I guess.
ChrisElston wrote:
Wrong forum.
Not the Topic itself IMO, but I understand that mentioning 2nd amendment might be considered overstepping.
The topic is "America has stupid gun laws". This comes up now and again. The exact same arguments are made by the exact same people each time. I don't think anyone has changed their minds yet, but it is American politics and shouldn't be here, and according to the Americans anyone who isn't shouldn't be allowed an opinion anyway.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends. Shed Petition[^]
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Elrond wrote:
Most were country that lived under some type of dictatorship (religious or other). And in this case, yes, civilians may have the use for guns.
And our 2nd Amendment is supposed to keep that from happening here. I think you understand, you just don't want to agree because if you do, all your other bullsh*t statements fall apart.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997I understand what your point of view is, but still don't agree. After thinking about it, a lot of massacres were done/supported by civilians having weapons. So when things turn bad, having guns all around may not protect you but may make the mess much worse. Or not. Depends of what is turning bad, who is trying to turn against who. That being said, it looks too much like a flame war that is not worth pursuing. Even the nazis have been brought up already. It is clear from your tone that you won't change your mind, and I can tell you that it won't change mine either. ;)
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The topic is "America has stupid gun laws". This comes up now and again. The exact same arguments are made by the exact same people each time. I don't think anyone has changed their minds yet, but it is American politics and shouldn't be here, and according to the Americans anyone who isn't shouldn't be allowed an opinion anyway.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends. Shed Petition[^]
Well, I thought the Topic was "Oregon Shooting", and the Body contained the expected default non-American reaction. I'm ok with keepign the latter out of the lounge, even the former, but I firmly insist that such a Shooting is not only a "political issue".
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Well, I thought the Topic was "Oregon Shooting", and the Body contained the expected default non-American reaction. I'm ok with keepign the latter out of the lounge, even the former, but I firmly insist that such a Shooting is not only a "political issue".
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Nope. I did shoot a guy in the Philippines while on watch in the Navy once, but he was trying to steal the brass fittings on our fire hoses, and he wouldn't stop when I have him the required three warnings. 30 yards, in the dark, with a 1911M1, and it was pouring rain. Shot him through the left femur.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
Link[^] Yeah..2nd amendment makes perfectly sense if you're able to own semiautomatics... Or maybe he just was pissed at all the Christmas shoppers
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
Mendor81 wrote:
if you're able to own semiautomatics...
I read his gun jammed. Being a semiauto might have saved lives. Anyways, so you think laws stop people from breaking laws? :doh: You aren't able to own any firearm if you are a felon, or carry weapons in Chicago, that didn't stop this guy: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-david-victory-21-charged-with-shooting-two-women-on-west-side-20121211,0,245521.story[^] Shot 2 people, didn't make international news. Or this guy: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-demarquez-nelson-charged-with-shooting-near-police-department-headquarters-20121212,0,4903183.story[^] This happened on the campus of IIT, a tech school I've hired people from. No international news story. Don't forget these unsolved crimes, (I'll assume they were carried out by law abiding 2nd Amendment supporters though) http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-chicago-gun-violence-crime-december-11-20121212,0,6436.story[^]
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One such difference is that murder can't realistically be solved.
Reason 1: guns aren't the only potentially deadly weapon. Heck, you don't even need a weapon, just throw them off a building.That is true, but i give you a situation: in which case it's more likely to get killed/shoot someone (depending on which side you are) A man in the US with guns comes home finds his wife cheating with another man, he goes for the gun and shoots. because he's angry and temporary blinded by jealousy and hate. Can happen to everybody. In europe he has no gun at home, so how to channel this temporary hate and rage? He would probably beat the shit out of the guy, definitly swear and yell the hell out of but not necessarly end in death. my point is that given the legal right to own a weapon increases the possibility of crime happening in your own environment. The easier the access to something the more likely it is to happen.
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
Mendor81 wrote:
A man in the US with guns comes home finds his wife cheating with another man, he goes for the gun and shoots. because he's angry and temporary blinded by jealousy and hate. Can happen to everybody.
In europe he has no gun at home, so how to channel this temporary hate and rage? He would probably beat the sh*t out of the guy, definitly swear and yell the hell out of but not necessarly end in death.A woman comes home and finds her teenage daughter being raped by a very strong man. I guess in Europe she could call the police and hope they arrive before he kills the both of them or, if she happens to be Texan, she could bury the guy in the side yard next to the out house. Gosh, this fabrication of scenarios to prove a point is easy stuff. Wanna go another round?
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What do you have alarms and police for? We have robberies over here as well and in plain daylight. happened to a neighbor of mine. nobody got killed in the process. Neither he or i feel the need to go out and buy a gun. We did install alarms that same week though.
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
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Here is a good relation of numbers and percentages[^] Spain has 4.500.000 firearms that means roughly a 10% of our population is armed. US has 270.000.000 firearms thats an 88.8 percent of the population according to the source. It's not the worst country judging by death's by firearms but number 28 is pretty high considering that the us is a internally political stable country oposed to honduras for example.
Hmm i wonder why its doing that......ARGHS NO STOP, ROLLBACK ROLLBACK...F*** That's how i learned to "Always Backup"!! Dogs are man's best Friend, Cats are man's adorable little serial killer
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If the ground is churning where you're at it's because you just caused millions of innocent, unarmed victims of Europe's multiple 'purges' to all roll over in their mass graves. Because only the most ignorant amoung us would apply the phrase "resolving our differences in a more peaceful way" to earthlings I'll assume you are talking about the Europeans from a different planet because the Europeans on earth have a very long history of bringing death and destruction to millions of it's own citizenry - particularly when that citizenry has absolutely no way of fighting back. You have everything from the medieval style inquisitions up to the the systemic exterminations of the holocaust on through the recent genocide in Serbia. So after 1,000 years of slaughter and persecution of unarmed citizens don't try to sell me the bullshit that you resolve your differences "in a more peaceful way". Unless of course, you were making a joke and by a "more peaceful way" you actually meant "rest in peace".
