question/survey
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If you were directed to move away from Microsoft languages, given free reign over what to go to next and were tasked with building say, an inventory system(heavy usage throughout the workday, 60 + users or so) that still would have a sql server behind it. What language would you go to and a couple of your main reasons why? (personal preference, performance etc.) This would still run on windows machines and not required to go cross platform. So for example would you go Java desktop app, a internal website thats not asp.net c++ desktop.. ? Just curious as to what people would prefer given free will on the subject.oh heck even include MS languages platforms too if that is your preference. hardware is: In house servers to run whatever is needed, sql server 2008 to hold data and a decent network. half of the computers are older XP machines with single core processors. EDIT: this is an actual project, but I have total freedom on what to do. I do have some ideas of my own of course but thought that I would get some input from people I deem to have a TON more experience than me in corporate level development. Thats why so general a question, right now thats where I am at :-D
Beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder Be careful which toes you step on today, they might be connected to the foot that kicks your butt tomorrow. You can't scare me, I have children.
C++ for sure. What else is ther ? Java ? Seriously ? I would never try to write a website that was not MVC, unless I had a gun to my head.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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I'm curious... is this an actual task and you're trying to get input or is it just a question of interest? As for me, if I couldn't use VB.NET, I'm not sure what I'd use. I'm more comfortable learning a simple language than a complex one like C++/C/JAVA. :-\
both.. lol co far I have done everything in c#. I have not touched vb.net since the one class I took in school.
Beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder Be careful which toes you step on today, they might be connected to the foot that kicks your butt tomorrow. You can't scare me, I have children.
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If you were directed to move away from Microsoft languages, given free reign over what to go to next and were tasked with building say, an inventory system(heavy usage throughout the workday, 60 + users or so) that still would have a sql server behind it. What language would you go to and a couple of your main reasons why? (personal preference, performance etc.) This would still run on windows machines and not required to go cross platform. So for example would you go Java desktop app, a internal website thats not asp.net c++ desktop.. ? Just curious as to what people would prefer given free will on the subject.oh heck even include MS languages platforms too if that is your preference. hardware is: In house servers to run whatever is needed, sql server 2008 to hold data and a decent network. half of the computers are older XP machines with single core processors. EDIT: this is an actual project, but I have total freedom on what to do. I do have some ideas of my own of course but thought that I would get some input from people I deem to have a TON more experience than me in corporate level development. Thats why so general a question, right now thats where I am at :-D
Beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder Be careful which toes you step on today, they might be connected to the foot that kicks your butt tomorrow. You can't scare me, I have children.
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C++ for sure. What else is ther ? Java ? Seriously ? I would never try to write a website that was not MVC, unless I had a gun to my head.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
well that's a good reason at least :-D it would not have to be a website specifically, it could easily be a desktop app as well.. I'm just fishing for general consensus on very general info about which people seem to think is the best platform/language for such things from a scratch build with complete and total freedom on how to implement it.
Beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder Be careful which toes you step on today, they might be connected to the foot that kicks your butt tomorrow. You can't scare me, I have children.
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Out of curiosity, were you told to move away from .NET? If so, why?
nope, just fishing for general info if there was a good reason to do so for a scratch build with complete freedom on implementation and platform/language choices.
Beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder Be careful which toes you step on today, they might be connected to the foot that kicks your butt tomorrow. You can't scare me, I have children.
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Is it desktop application only or web based? Also does it have to be mobile friendly? Personally, if I had to do this and not use .NET, I'd use PHP. I'm comfortable enough with it.
it could be either one. if a website it would be good to have it mobile friendly(read iStuff mainly). I have not written one line of code in PHP.. ever..
Beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder Be careful which toes you step on today, they might be connected to the foot that kicks your butt tomorrow. You can't scare me, I have children.
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well that's a good reason at least :-D it would not have to be a website specifically, it could easily be a desktop app as well.. I'm just fishing for general consensus on very general info about which people seem to think is the best platform/language for such things from a scratch build with complete and total freedom on how to implement it.
Beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder Be careful which toes you step on today, they might be connected to the foot that kicks your butt tomorrow. You can't scare me, I have children.
For Windows, C# is the best, today. If I couldn't use that, C++ is the only real option
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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If you were directed to move away from Microsoft languages, given free reign over what to go to next and were tasked with building say, an inventory system(heavy usage throughout the workday, 60 + users or so) that still would have a sql server behind it. What language would you go to and a couple of your main reasons why? (personal preference, performance etc.) This would still run on windows machines and not required to go cross platform. So for example would you go Java desktop app, a internal website thats not asp.net c++ desktop.. ? Just curious as to what people would prefer given free will on the subject.oh heck even include MS languages platforms too if that is your preference. hardware is: In house servers to run whatever is needed, sql server 2008 to hold data and a decent network. half of the computers are older XP machines with single core processors. EDIT: this is an actual project, but I have total freedom on what to do. I do have some ideas of my own of course but thought that I would get some input from people I deem to have a TON more experience than me in corporate level development. Thats why so general a question, right now thats where I am at :-D
Beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder Be careful which toes you step on today, they might be connected to the foot that kicks your butt tomorrow. You can't scare me, I have children.
Given the constraints of the question I think I would go for an HTML5 / Javascript / JQuery / AJAX / KnockoutJs (or similar) solution. Why? Interesting to learn more about it. Portable (I know that's not a requirement, but when the boss realises he can run it from an iPad in the canteen you'll get a raise) Given its a clean start I could spend lots of time up front making sure my framework was tightly designed and easily maintainable.
.\\axxx
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Given the constraints of the question I think I would go for an HTML5 / Javascript / JQuery / AJAX / KnockoutJs (or similar) solution. Why? Interesting to learn more about it. Portable (I know that's not a requirement, but when the boss realises he can run it from an iPad in the canteen you'll get a raise) Given its a clean start I could spend lots of time up front making sure my framework was tightly designed and easily maintainable.
.\\axxx
SockPuppeteer wrote:
HTML5 / Javascript / JQuery / AJAX / KnockoutJs
Pretty much the suggestion I was going to post, but with Node.js at the server end.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
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Given the constraints of the question I think I would go for an HTML5 / Javascript / JQuery / AJAX / KnockoutJs (or similar) solution. Why? Interesting to learn more about it. Portable (I know that's not a requirement, but when the boss realises he can run it from an iPad in the canteen you'll get a raise) Given its a clean start I could spend lots of time up front making sure my framework was tightly designed and easily maintainable.
.\\axxx
the current home grown app is a eye stabbing piece of shite asp.net website(internal only)with an Access database behind it. I wont go into details but it brings thoughts of murder to mind when having to work on it.(no, I didn't build it, I inherited it when I started here, and its a serious Frankenstein monster.) The business logic is there and for the most part is fine, its the user interface and implementation that is mindbogglingly pathetic. for example it takes 8 minutes to create a work order on the production line.... no more data than a work order is, it shouldn't take 60 seconds even on a slow xp machine over a clogged network.. I have been pushing the last few months for them to buy a commercial software and that decision is coming soon. I have a sinking feeling that the answer is going to be no. if that is the case, it is high time I get off the bum and start rebuilding this thing. Portable is not a requirement but would be a bonus feature. Our mobility has went heavy Apple. even though all computers and network are 100% windows.
Beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder Be careful which toes you step on today, they might be connected to the foot that kicks your butt tomorrow. You can't scare me, I have children.
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If you were directed to move away from Microsoft languages, given free reign over what to go to next and were tasked with building say, an inventory system(heavy usage throughout the workday, 60 + users or so) that still would have a sql server behind it. What language would you go to and a couple of your main reasons why? (personal preference, performance etc.) This would still run on windows machines and not required to go cross platform. So for example would you go Java desktop app, a internal website thats not asp.net c++ desktop.. ? Just curious as to what people would prefer given free will on the subject.oh heck even include MS languages platforms too if that is your preference. hardware is: In house servers to run whatever is needed, sql server 2008 to hold data and a decent network. half of the computers are older XP machines with single core processors. EDIT: this is an actual project, but I have total freedom on what to do. I do have some ideas of my own of course but thought that I would get some input from people I deem to have a TON more experience than me in corporate level development. Thats why so general a question, right now thats where I am at :-D
Beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder Be careful which toes you step on today, they might be connected to the foot that kicks your butt tomorrow. You can't scare me, I have children.
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SockPuppeteer wrote:
HTML5 / Javascript / JQuery / AJAX / KnockoutJs
Pretty much the suggestion I was going to post, but with Node.js at the server end.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
Not looked at Node.js - a little out of my comfort zone; I was thinking more .Net web service back end - but I might take a look at Node - thanks.
.\\axxx
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the current home grown app is a eye stabbing piece of shite asp.net website(internal only)with an Access database behind it. I wont go into details but it brings thoughts of murder to mind when having to work on it.(no, I didn't build it, I inherited it when I started here, and its a serious Frankenstein monster.) The business logic is there and for the most part is fine, its the user interface and implementation that is mindbogglingly pathetic. for example it takes 8 minutes to create a work order on the production line.... no more data than a work order is, it shouldn't take 60 seconds even on a slow xp machine over a clogged network.. I have been pushing the last few months for them to buy a commercial software and that decision is coming soon. I have a sinking feeling that the answer is going to be no. if that is the case, it is high time I get off the bum and start rebuilding this thing. Portable is not a requirement but would be a bonus feature. Our mobility has went heavy Apple. even though all computers and network are 100% windows.
Beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder Be careful which toes you step on today, they might be connected to the foot that kicks your butt tomorrow. You can't scare me, I have children.
It sounds to me as if you are in an ideal place - the current SW is shite, but works so urgency for replacement is relatively low. So can you allocate yourself a %Rge of your time to redesign/rebuild it from the ground up, while the rest of your time is spent maintaining the legacy? Using the agnostic tools to develop the app would be fun (at least, it would for me) as you get the chance to learn on the job - and it sounds like you might have the time to do it properly rather than being rushed into something. (Of course Mgt would expect it to take you two weeks, but if they're looking at commercial apps they will hopefully notice that they're generally not $99.99 boxed software!) If you use something MVVM-like (Knockout.js or another one that someone mentioned recently whose name I thought I had noted but evidently didn't) then the Gui side is (almost!) a pleasure to do as all that binding stuff is just taken care of, so you can concentrate on getting the business stuff developed and play with the pretties later. Whatever you do (and I speak from experience!) don't get persuaded to do an early release which still updates/uses the Access Db as well as the SQL Db - this way much pain and suffering lie!)
.\\axxx
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It sounds to me as if you are in an ideal place - the current SW is shite, but works so urgency for replacement is relatively low. So can you allocate yourself a %Rge of your time to redesign/rebuild it from the ground up, while the rest of your time is spent maintaining the legacy? Using the agnostic tools to develop the app would be fun (at least, it would for me) as you get the chance to learn on the job - and it sounds like you might have the time to do it properly rather than being rushed into something. (Of course Mgt would expect it to take you two weeks, but if they're looking at commercial apps they will hopefully notice that they're generally not $99.99 boxed software!) If you use something MVVM-like (Knockout.js or another one that someone mentioned recently whose name I thought I had noted but evidently didn't) then the Gui side is (almost!) a pleasure to do as all that binding stuff is just taken care of, so you can concentrate on getting the business stuff developed and play with the pretties later. Whatever you do (and I speak from experience!) don't get persuaded to do an early release which still updates/uses the Access Db as well as the SQL Db - this way much pain and suffering lie!)
.\\axxx
SockPuppeteer wrote:
he current SW is shite, but works so urgency for replacement is relatively low
true
SockPuppeteer wrote:
So can you allocate yourself a %Rge of your time to redesign/rebuild it from the ground up, while the rest of your time is spent maintaining the legacy?
a little, but its worse than legacy support. I am the entire IT department here. Network admin, databases, helpdesk, programmer the whole shebang.. so limited actual code writing time.
SockPuppeteer wrote:
Of course Mgt would expect it to take you two weeks, but if they're looking at commercial apps they will hopefully notice that they're generally not $99.99 boxed software!)
hehe, the current one we are looking at is $130,000.00 "out of the box". but it is built by people that came from our industry and is tailored to our line of work and nothing else. it would take me a few months in reality. the current shite app is 75 pages of brain pain, and over 80 crystal reports. all has to be replicated to some extent(theoretically done better).
SockPuppeteer wrote:
Whatever you do (and I speak from experience!) don't get persuaded to do an early release which still updates/uses the Access Db as well as the SQL Db - this way much pain and suffering lie!)
that is somewhat what happened. the previous guy had no degree or experience prior to this and he let himself get rushed. It was never fully completed and what is there is painful. then he quit. they hired me,ang three months later the it manager quit. That left me and a few months later they made it official and never hired another programmer.
Beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder Be careful which toes you step on today, they might be connected to the foot that kicks your butt tomorrow. You can't scare me, I have children.
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If you were directed to move away from Microsoft languages, given free reign over what to go to next and were tasked with building say, an inventory system(heavy usage throughout the workday, 60 + users or so) that still would have a sql server behind it. What language would you go to and a couple of your main reasons why? (personal preference, performance etc.) This would still run on windows machines and not required to go cross platform. So for example would you go Java desktop app, a internal website thats not asp.net c++ desktop.. ? Just curious as to what people would prefer given free will on the subject.oh heck even include MS languages platforms too if that is your preference. hardware is: In house servers to run whatever is needed, sql server 2008 to hold data and a decent network. half of the computers are older XP machines with single core processors. EDIT: this is an actual project, but I have total freedom on what to do. I do have some ideas of my own of course but thought that I would get some input from people I deem to have a TON more experience than me in corporate level development. Thats why so general a question, right now thats where I am at :-D
Beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder Be careful which toes you step on today, they might be connected to the foot that kicks your butt tomorrow. You can't scare me, I have children.
-
If you were directed to move away from Microsoft languages, given free reign over what to go to next and were tasked with building say, an inventory system(heavy usage throughout the workday, 60 + users or so) that still would have a sql server behind it. What language would you go to and a couple of your main reasons why? (personal preference, performance etc.) This would still run on windows machines and not required to go cross platform. So for example would you go Java desktop app, a internal website thats not asp.net c++ desktop.. ? Just curious as to what people would prefer given free will on the subject.oh heck even include MS languages platforms too if that is your preference. hardware is: In house servers to run whatever is needed, sql server 2008 to hold data and a decent network. half of the computers are older XP machines with single core processors. EDIT: this is an actual project, but I have total freedom on what to do. I do have some ideas of my own of course but thought that I would get some input from people I deem to have a TON more experience than me in corporate level development. Thats why so general a question, right now thats where I am at :-D
Beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder Be careful which toes you step on today, they might be connected to the foot that kicks your butt tomorrow. You can't scare me, I have children.
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If you were directed to move away from Microsoft languages, given free reign over what to go to next and were tasked with building say, an inventory system(heavy usage throughout the workday, 60 + users or so) that still would have a sql server behind it. What language would you go to and a couple of your main reasons why? (personal preference, performance etc.) This would still run on windows machines and not required to go cross platform. So for example would you go Java desktop app, a internal website thats not asp.net c++ desktop.. ? Just curious as to what people would prefer given free will on the subject.oh heck even include MS languages platforms too if that is your preference. hardware is: In house servers to run whatever is needed, sql server 2008 to hold data and a decent network. half of the computers are older XP machines with single core processors. EDIT: this is an actual project, but I have total freedom on what to do. I do have some ideas of my own of course but thought that I would get some input from people I deem to have a TON more experience than me in corporate level development. Thats why so general a question, right now thats where I am at :-D
Beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder Be careful which toes you step on today, they might be connected to the foot that kicks your butt tomorrow. You can't scare me, I have children.
For desktop use, probably phython; for web Ruby's the latest fashionable resume gem. Java's painfully verbose coming from modern C#; and C/C++ is too slow to develop with except in cases where you actually need the performance. And on the web side, PHP is fractually bad.[^]
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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If you were directed to move away from Microsoft languages, given free reign over what to go to next and were tasked with building say, an inventory system(heavy usage throughout the workday, 60 + users or so) that still would have a sql server behind it. What language would you go to and a couple of your main reasons why? (personal preference, performance etc.) This would still run on windows machines and not required to go cross platform. So for example would you go Java desktop app, a internal website thats not asp.net c++ desktop.. ? Just curious as to what people would prefer given free will on the subject.oh heck even include MS languages platforms too if that is your preference. hardware is: In house servers to run whatever is needed, sql server 2008 to hold data and a decent network. half of the computers are older XP machines with single core processors. EDIT: this is an actual project, but I have total freedom on what to do. I do have some ideas of my own of course but thought that I would get some input from people I deem to have a TON more experience than me in corporate level development. Thats why so general a question, right now thats where I am at :-D
Beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder Be careful which toes you step on today, they might be connected to the foot that kicks your butt tomorrow. You can't scare me, I have children.
Definitely BoilerStrap: http://html9responsiveboilerstrapjs.com[^] Repost I know.. but a worthy mention on this topic!
"For fifty bucks I'd put my face in their soup and blow." - George Costanza
CP article: SmartPager - a Flickr-style pager control with go-to-page popup layer.
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SockPuppeteer wrote:
he current SW is shite, but works so urgency for replacement is relatively low
true
SockPuppeteer wrote:
So can you allocate yourself a %Rge of your time to redesign/rebuild it from the ground up, while the rest of your time is spent maintaining the legacy?
a little, but its worse than legacy support. I am the entire IT department here. Network admin, databases, helpdesk, programmer the whole shebang.. so limited actual code writing time.
SockPuppeteer wrote:
Of course Mgt would expect it to take you two weeks, but if they're looking at commercial apps they will hopefully notice that they're generally not $99.99 boxed software!)
hehe, the current one we are looking at is $130,000.00 "out of the box". but it is built by people that came from our industry and is tailored to our line of work and nothing else. it would take me a few months in reality. the current shite app is 75 pages of brain pain, and over 80 crystal reports. all has to be replicated to some extent(theoretically done better).
SockPuppeteer wrote:
Whatever you do (and I speak from experience!) don't get persuaded to do an early release which still updates/uses the Access Db as well as the SQL Db - this way much pain and suffering lie!)
that is somewhat what happened. the previous guy had no degree or experience prior to this and he let himself get rushed. It was never fully completed and what is there is painful. then he quit. they hired me,ang three months later the it manager quit. That left me and a few months later they made it official and never hired another programmer.
Beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder Be careful which toes you step on today, they might be connected to the foot that kicks your butt tomorrow. You can't scare me, I have children.
Suggestion: For < 130k you could hire a contractor - so spend time speccing what you want, then persuade them to get a good contractor who can do the legwork
.\\axxx
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If you were directed to move away from Microsoft languages, given free reign over what to go to next and were tasked with building say, an inventory system(heavy usage throughout the workday, 60 + users or so) that still would have a sql server behind it. What language would you go to and a couple of your main reasons why? (personal preference, performance etc.) This would still run on windows machines and not required to go cross platform. So for example would you go Java desktop app, a internal website thats not asp.net c++ desktop.. ? Just curious as to what people would prefer given free will on the subject.oh heck even include MS languages platforms too if that is your preference. hardware is: In house servers to run whatever is needed, sql server 2008 to hold data and a decent network. half of the computers are older XP machines with single core processors. EDIT: this is an actual project, but I have total freedom on what to do. I do have some ideas of my own of course but thought that I would get some input from people I deem to have a TON more experience than me in corporate level development. Thats why so general a question, right now thats where I am at :-D
Beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder Be careful which toes you step on today, they might be connected to the foot that kicks your butt tomorrow. You can't scare me, I have children.
Rather I have more experience at desktop development I would choose to create a web application since it's more easy to install it, update it, support it, give clients the same experience(well exclude IE) and you are free to create a really nice interface. My language of choice would be C# ms MVC and if I must not use this I would choose ruby on rails, it's might be better that msMVC and it's super portable to webservers and databases.