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Terrible story unfolding...

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved The Lounge
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  • R RugbyLeague

    Yeah, best keep the kids away from school so people can have their guns

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    realJSOP
    wrote on last edited by
    #56

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.

    ".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
    -----
    You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
    -----
    "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997

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    • Y Yayozama

      jth42 wrote:

      But Mexico also has very restrictive gun laws and getting a gun there is said to be not difficult at all.

      Sorry, but that's not true... Besides, the ammo is pretty dificult to get too...

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      realJSOP
      wrote on last edited by
      #57

      *Law abiding* citizens obey the law, and become victims of the bad guys that don't (the drug cartels).

      ".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
      -----
      You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
      -----
      "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997

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      • C Christian Graus

        You could try a society that isn't awash with guns. Works everywhere else in the world ( not ALL the time, but often enough to make these sort of events extremely rare, I bet the US has more acts of random violence in schools than the rest of the world combined )

        Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.

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        realJSOP
        wrote on last edited by
        #58

        Christian Graus wrote:

        You could try a society that isn't awash with guns. Works everywhere else in the world ( not ALL the time, but often enough to make these sort of events extremely rare

        Conversely, OUR laws don't work all of the time, but they do often enough to make these sort of events extremely rare.

        Christian Graus wrote:

        I bet the US has more acts of random violence in schools than the rest of the world combined )

        "I bet" is the gun grabber's more vague version of "statistics show that...". They are willing to neither actually bet, or cite the study that provided the "statistics".

        ".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
        -----
        You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
        -----
        "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997

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        • R realJSOP

          Christian Graus wrote:

          You could try a society that isn't awash with guns. Works everywhere else in the world ( not ALL the time, but often enough to make these sort of events extremely rare

          Conversely, OUR laws don't work all of the time, but they do often enough to make these sort of events extremely rare.

          Christian Graus wrote:

          I bet the US has more acts of random violence in schools than the rest of the world combined )

          "I bet" is the gun grabber's more vague version of "statistics show that...". They are willing to neither actually bet, or cite the study that provided the "statistics".

          ".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
          -----
          You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
          -----
          "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997

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          Christian Graus
          wrote on last edited by
          #59

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting[^] Compare the other lists to the fact that the USA needs it's own page, and the list there, dwarfs all the others combined.

          Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.

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          • R realJSOP

            A well regulated Militia, being necessary for the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.

            ".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
            -----
            You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
            -----
            "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997

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            RugbyLeague
            wrote on last edited by
            #60

            Presumably this guy was part of a well regulated militia

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            • R RugbyLeague

              Presumably this guy was part of a well regulated militia

              R Offline
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              realJSOP
              wrote on last edited by
              #61

              When you run out of viable arguments, you start to make smart-ass remarks.

              ".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
              -----
              You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
              -----
              "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997

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              • R RugbyLeague

                Did you miss this bit: "Due to current UK Laws we are unable to sell any firearm directly through our website, as we need to see an original firearms certificate."

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                jschell
                wrote on last edited by
                #62

                RugbyLeague wrote:

                Did you miss this bit:

                Since that had nothing to do with the your posting what does it have to do with my response? You said "if I was going to go postal I wouldn't have a clue where to get hold of a gun" I showed you exactly where one could get a gun.

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                • Y Yayozama

                  Well, you seem to be confusing the organized crime (drug delears, narcos, mafia, cartels, etc...) with "normal" people... All that criminals bring their guns and ammo from USA, all the "small" criminals need to buy their guns and ammo in the streets, wich is very difficult to do. You don't hear about someone going postal in my country (I'm not saying that someone can't get a gun and kill someone else, but it's not as frecuent as in your country). All that massive killings (wich are very ashamed of, btw) are part of vendettas between 2 or more cartels (or people related to them).

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                  jschell
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #63

                  Yayozama wrote:

                  Well, you seem to be confusing the organized crime (drug delears, narcos, mafia, cartels, etc...) with "normal" people...

                  I am not "confusing" anything. A lot of people are dying by being shot. So your claim is obviously specious since certainly people can get guns and ammunition. And it appears a lot of them can get them. And the fact that there are illegal doesn't seem to stop people dieing from them.

                  Yayozama wrote:

                  You don't hear about someone going postal in my country

                  There is NO direct correlation between guns themselves and mass shootings. That is a cultural difference. Obviously more guns means more possibilities but the cultural is the driving force.

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                  • J jschell

                    Yayozama wrote:

                    Well, you seem to be confusing the organized crime (drug delears, narcos, mafia, cartels, etc...) with "normal" people...

                    I am not "confusing" anything. A lot of people are dying by being shot. So your claim is obviously specious since certainly people can get guns and ammunition. And it appears a lot of them can get them. And the fact that there are illegal doesn't seem to stop people dieing from them.

                    Yayozama wrote:

                    You don't hear about someone going postal in my country

                    There is NO direct correlation between guns themselves and mass shootings. That is a cultural difference. Obviously more guns means more possibilities but the cultural is the driving force.

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                    Yayozama
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #64

                    jschell wrote:

                    A lot of people are dying by being shot. So your claim is obviously specious since certainly people can get guns and ammunition. And it appears a lot of them can get them.
                     
                    And the fact that there are illegal doesn't seem to stop people dieing from them.

                    Look, I'm not telling (as you can see in my other messages) that people can't get a gun in my country... that would be ridiculous. What I'm saying is [and here is where I don't understand your "specious" claim] that most of the news that you hear about people diying in violents acts (related to guns) are because of the war between the drug cartels and/or the police. And if you believe that THOSE guns were purchased in the streets, sorry, you are wrong.

                    jschell wrote:

                    There is NO direct correlation between guns themselves and mass shootings. That is a cultural difference. Obviously more guns means more possibilities but the cultural is the driving force.

                    Yes, I can understand your point... but if your culture actually involve a [relative] lot of people using to harm others [kids in this case!!!], why can't you get a little more laws to actually get a gun? Again, look... I'm not criticising all of you [pro or anti gun], because I don't live in your country. I'm only saying what it would be my stance if I were. Like I said to JSOP: your laws, for good or for worse... so be it.

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                    • R realJSOP

                      Yayozama wrote:

                      why don't regulate at least the most dangerous of them?

                      They already are. They're called NFA Title 2 weapons. Look it up.

                      ".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
                      -----
                      You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
                      -----
                      "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997

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                      Yayozama
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #65

                      No, I won't look it up, because that's no the point (for me and my point, at least). I didn't wanted to bring the China story (because it has been used again and again in one day), but sadly it's EXACTLY my point. You think that I want a revolver gun instead of a "NFA title 2" gun against me? with all due respect (because, believe me, I'm not trying to troll you or someone else here), you keep saying that if someone grab a bat or a knife and kill someone (or more people) we should ban the bats or the knifes (at least ironically)... but it's not the same case. A bat is not a weapon... a knife is not a weapon. You use a bat to play baseball, you use a knife in the kitchen, you use a chair to sit down, you use a car to drive, etc etc etc... You can use all of these things to hurt/kill someone? Yes, of course... you can use almost any thing to do that. What else can you do with a gun? A gun is made to hurt someone... there's no other use to that thing. Don't you think that the context is completly different?

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                      • R realJSOP

                        *Law abiding* citizens obey the law, and become victims of the bad guys that don't (the drug cartels).

                        ".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
                        -----
                        You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
                        -----
                        "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997

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                        Yayozama
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #66

                        Yes... and what's the point? That we all should be armed in the streets to kill THAT bad guys? Yes, I can't see how that could go wrong... That's the work of the police and the army... and they are doing their jobs (more slowly that I want, but they are catching a lot of drug lords -the problem is that the head grow faster again).

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                        • J jschell

                          RugbyLeague wrote:

                          Did you miss this bit:

                          Since that had nothing to do with the your posting what does it have to do with my response? You said "if I was going to go postal I wouldn't have a clue where to get hold of a gun" I showed you exactly where one could get a gun.

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                          RugbyLeague
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #67

                          If you have all the correct paperwork.

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                          • R realJSOP

                            When you run out of viable arguments, you start to make smart-ass remarks.

                            ".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
                            -----
                            You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
                            -----
                            "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997

                            R Offline
                            R Offline
                            RugbyLeague
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #68

                            It was a perfectly valid comment. This guy wasn't part of a well regulated militia - he tooks his mother's guns and went on a murdering spree. He had easy access to guns designed for killing people - and he used them for that purpose. If you think america is better for being awash with guns designed to kill people then I am happy for you. It's not the sort of society I would wish to live in and I am appalled that more children are dead because somebody had easy access to murderous guns.

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                            • Y Yayozama

                              Yes... and what's the point? That we all should be armed in the streets to kill THAT bad guys? Yes, I can't see how that could go wrong... That's the work of the police and the army... and they are doing their jobs (more slowly that I want, but they are catching a lot of drug lords -the problem is that the head grow faster again).

                              R Offline
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                              realJSOP
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #69

                              Yayozama wrote:

                              That we all should be armed in the streets to kill THAT bad guys?

                              Until existing laws are enforced, that is the only right answer. In Mexico, however, the government is apparently just as corrupt as the people they're supposed to be apprehending, at least in the jurisdictions that matter.

                              Yayozama wrote:

                              That's the work of the police and the army... and they are doing their jobs (more slowly that I want, but they are catching a lot of drug lords -the problem is that the head grow faster again).

                              The problem is that they're probably working *for* another drug lord (that's paying them more than all the others) to help exterminate the competition.

                              ".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
                              -----
                              You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
                              -----
                              "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997

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                              • R RugbyLeague

                                If you have all the correct paperwork.

                                R Offline
                                R Offline
                                realJSOP
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #70

                                RugbyLeague wrote:

                                If you have all the correct paperwork.

                                You mean the correct amount of paperwork (as in cash on hand).

                                ".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
                                -----
                                You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
                                -----
                                "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997

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                                • R realJSOP

                                  RugbyLeague wrote:

                                  If you have all the correct paperwork.

                                  You mean the correct amount of paperwork (as in cash on hand).

                                  ".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
                                  -----
                                  You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
                                  -----
                                  "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997

                                  R Offline
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                                  RugbyLeague
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #71

                                  no, the correct paperwork

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                                  • D Dan Neely

                                    Colin Mullikin wrote:

                                    Slacker007 wrote:

                                    security guard stations and full bag checks.

                                    Have fun implementing that at every single school in the entire country... :doh:

                                    It's depressingly common at urban schools already; strangely enough they still have major problems with contraband inside; and in the case of a lunatic like this the guard at the door would just be the first one killed.

                                    Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt

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                                    Colin Mullikin
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #72

                                    Dan Neely wrote:

                                    strangely enough they still have major problems with contraband inside; and in the case of a lunatic like this the guard at the door would just be the first one killed.

                                    So, pretty much you're saying it is a useless security measure...? :doh:

                                    The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin

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                                    • Y Yayozama

                                      No, I won't look it up, because that's no the point (for me and my point, at least). I didn't wanted to bring the China story (because it has been used again and again in one day), but sadly it's EXACTLY my point. You think that I want a revolver gun instead of a "NFA title 2" gun against me? with all due respect (because, believe me, I'm not trying to troll you or someone else here), you keep saying that if someone grab a bat or a knife and kill someone (or more people) we should ban the bats or the knifes (at least ironically)... but it's not the same case. A bat is not a weapon... a knife is not a weapon. You use a bat to play baseball, you use a knife in the kitchen, you use a chair to sit down, you use a car to drive, etc etc etc... You can use all of these things to hurt/kill someone? Yes, of course... you can use almost any thing to do that. What else can you do with a gun? A gun is made to hurt someone... there's no other use to that thing. Don't you think that the context is completly different?

                                      C Offline
                                      C Offline
                                      Colin Mullikin
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #73

                                      Yayozama wrote:

                                      What else can you do with a gun? A gun is made to hurt someone... there's no other use to that thing. Don't you think that the context is completly different?

                                      Hunting and self-defense.

                                      The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin

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                                      • C Colin Mullikin

                                        Dan Neely wrote:

                                        strangely enough they still have major problems with contraband inside; and in the case of a lunatic like this the guard at the door would just be the first one killed.

                                        So, pretty much you're saying it is a useless security measure...? :doh:

                                        The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin

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                                        Dan Neely
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #74

                                        If we're talking about a single guard stationed at the entrance yes. A roaming guard would be less vulnerable to a preemptive strike at the start of an attack; and multiple people at widely separated locations would make doing so impossible for a lone gunman. Hiring multiple guards for a very low probability event's improbable from a budgetary standpoint, and despite the desires of some on the right we're not going to emulate Israel's approach of deputizing a significant fraction of the faculty.

                                        Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt

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                                        • D Dan Neely

                                          If we're talking about a single guard stationed at the entrance yes. A roaming guard would be less vulnerable to a preemptive strike at the start of an attack; and multiple people at widely separated locations would make doing so impossible for a lone gunman. Hiring multiple guards for a very low probability event's improbable from a budgetary standpoint, and despite the desires of some on the right we're not going to emulate Israel's approach of deputizing a significant fraction of the faculty.

                                          Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt

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                                          Colin Mullikin
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #75

                                          I agree with pretty much everything that you just said. :thumbsup: A guy I work with brought up the deputizing of faculty, and I tried to explain to him why that would neither work nor ever happen.

                                          The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin

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