Terrible story unfolding...
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Well, you seem to be confusing the organized crime (drug delears, narcos, mafia, cartels, etc...) with "normal" people... All that criminals bring their guns and ammo from USA, all the "small" criminals need to buy their guns and ammo in the streets, wich is very difficult to do. You don't hear about someone going postal in my country (I'm not saying that someone can't get a gun and kill someone else, but it's not as frecuent as in your country). All that massive killings (wich are very ashamed of, btw) are part of vendettas between 2 or more cartels (or people related to them).
Yayozama wrote:
Well, you seem to be confusing the organized crime (drug delears, narcos, mafia, cartels, etc...) with "normal" people...
I am not "confusing" anything. A lot of people are dying by being shot. So your claim is obviously specious since certainly people can get guns and ammunition. And it appears a lot of them can get them. And the fact that there are illegal doesn't seem to stop people dieing from them.
Yayozama wrote:
You don't hear about someone going postal in my country
There is NO direct correlation between guns themselves and mass shootings. That is a cultural difference. Obviously more guns means more possibilities but the cultural is the driving force.
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Yayozama wrote:
Well, you seem to be confusing the organized crime (drug delears, narcos, mafia, cartels, etc...) with "normal" people...
I am not "confusing" anything. A lot of people are dying by being shot. So your claim is obviously specious since certainly people can get guns and ammunition. And it appears a lot of them can get them. And the fact that there are illegal doesn't seem to stop people dieing from them.
Yayozama wrote:
You don't hear about someone going postal in my country
There is NO direct correlation between guns themselves and mass shootings. That is a cultural difference. Obviously more guns means more possibilities but the cultural is the driving force.
jschell wrote:
A lot of people are dying by being shot. So your claim is obviously specious since certainly people can get guns and ammunition. And it appears a lot of them can get them.
And the fact that there are illegal doesn't seem to stop people dieing from them.Look, I'm not telling (as you can see in my other messages) that people can't get a gun in my country... that would be ridiculous. What I'm saying is [and here is where I don't understand your "specious" claim] that most of the news that you hear about people diying in violents acts (related to guns) are because of the war between the drug cartels and/or the police. And if you believe that THOSE guns were purchased in the streets, sorry, you are wrong.
jschell wrote:
There is NO direct correlation between guns themselves and mass shootings. That is a cultural difference. Obviously more guns means more possibilities but the cultural is the driving force.
Yes, I can understand your point... but if your culture actually involve a [relative] lot of people using to harm others [kids in this case!!!], why can't you get a little more laws to actually get a gun? Again, look... I'm not criticising all of you [pro or anti gun], because I don't live in your country. I'm only saying what it would be my stance if I were. Like I said to JSOP: your laws, for good or for worse... so be it.
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Yayozama wrote:
why don't regulate at least the most dangerous of them?
They already are. They're called NFA Title 2 weapons. Look it up.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997No, I won't look it up, because that's no the point (for me and my point, at least). I didn't wanted to bring the China story (because it has been used again and again in one day), but sadly it's EXACTLY my point. You think that I want a revolver gun instead of a "NFA title 2" gun against me? with all due respect (because, believe me, I'm not trying to troll you or someone else here), you keep saying that if someone grab a bat or a knife and kill someone (or more people) we should ban the bats or the knifes (at least ironically)... but it's not the same case. A bat is not a weapon... a knife is not a weapon. You use a bat to play baseball, you use a knife in the kitchen, you use a chair to sit down, you use a car to drive, etc etc etc... You can use all of these things to hurt/kill someone? Yes, of course... you can use almost any thing to do that. What else can you do with a gun? A gun is made to hurt someone... there's no other use to that thing. Don't you think that the context is completly different?
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*Law abiding* citizens obey the law, and become victims of the bad guys that don't (the drug cartels).
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997Yes... and what's the point? That we all should be armed in the streets to kill THAT bad guys? Yes, I can't see how that could go wrong... That's the work of the police and the army... and they are doing their jobs (more slowly that I want, but they are catching a lot of drug lords -the problem is that the head grow faster again).
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RugbyLeague wrote:
Did you miss this bit:
Since that had nothing to do with the your posting what does it have to do with my response? You said "if I was going to go postal I wouldn't have a clue where to get hold of a gun" I showed you exactly where one could get a gun.
If you have all the correct paperwork.
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When you run out of viable arguments, you start to make smart-ass remarks.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997It was a perfectly valid comment. This guy wasn't part of a well regulated militia - he tooks his mother's guns and went on a murdering spree. He had easy access to guns designed for killing people - and he used them for that purpose. If you think america is better for being awash with guns designed to kill people then I am happy for you. It's not the sort of society I would wish to live in and I am appalled that more children are dead because somebody had easy access to murderous guns.
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Yes... and what's the point? That we all should be armed in the streets to kill THAT bad guys? Yes, I can't see how that could go wrong... That's the work of the police and the army... and they are doing their jobs (more slowly that I want, but they are catching a lot of drug lords -the problem is that the head grow faster again).
Yayozama wrote:
That we all should be armed in the streets to kill THAT bad guys?
Until existing laws are enforced, that is the only right answer. In Mexico, however, the government is apparently just as corrupt as the people they're supposed to be apprehending, at least in the jurisdictions that matter.
Yayozama wrote:
That's the work of the police and the army... and they are doing their jobs (more slowly that I want, but they are catching a lot of drug lords -the problem is that the head grow faster again).
The problem is that they're probably working *for* another drug lord (that's paying them more than all the others) to help exterminate the competition.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
If you have all the correct paperwork.
RugbyLeague wrote:
If you have all the correct paperwork.
You mean the correct amount of paperwork (as in cash on hand).
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
RugbyLeague wrote:
If you have all the correct paperwork.
You mean the correct amount of paperwork (as in cash on hand).
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997no, the correct paperwork
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Colin Mullikin wrote:
Slacker007 wrote:
security guard stations and full bag checks.
Have fun implementing that at every single school in the entire country... :doh:
It's depressingly common at urban schools already; strangely enough they still have major problems with contraband inside; and in the case of a lunatic like this the guard at the door would just be the first one killed.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
Dan Neely wrote:
strangely enough they still have major problems with contraband inside; and in the case of a lunatic like this the guard at the door would just be the first one killed.
So, pretty much you're saying it is a useless security measure...? :doh:
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
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No, I won't look it up, because that's no the point (for me and my point, at least). I didn't wanted to bring the China story (because it has been used again and again in one day), but sadly it's EXACTLY my point. You think that I want a revolver gun instead of a "NFA title 2" gun against me? with all due respect (because, believe me, I'm not trying to troll you or someone else here), you keep saying that if someone grab a bat or a knife and kill someone (or more people) we should ban the bats or the knifes (at least ironically)... but it's not the same case. A bat is not a weapon... a knife is not a weapon. You use a bat to play baseball, you use a knife in the kitchen, you use a chair to sit down, you use a car to drive, etc etc etc... You can use all of these things to hurt/kill someone? Yes, of course... you can use almost any thing to do that. What else can you do with a gun? A gun is made to hurt someone... there's no other use to that thing. Don't you think that the context is completly different?
Yayozama wrote:
What else can you do with a gun? A gun is made to hurt someone... there's no other use to that thing. Don't you think that the context is completly different?
Hunting and self-defense.
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
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Dan Neely wrote:
strangely enough they still have major problems with contraband inside; and in the case of a lunatic like this the guard at the door would just be the first one killed.
So, pretty much you're saying it is a useless security measure...? :doh:
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
If we're talking about a single guard stationed at the entrance yes. A roaming guard would be less vulnerable to a preemptive strike at the start of an attack; and multiple people at widely separated locations would make doing so impossible for a lone gunman. Hiring multiple guards for a very low probability event's improbable from a budgetary standpoint, and despite the desires of some on the right we're not going to emulate Israel's approach of deputizing a significant fraction of the faculty.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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If we're talking about a single guard stationed at the entrance yes. A roaming guard would be less vulnerable to a preemptive strike at the start of an attack; and multiple people at widely separated locations would make doing so impossible for a lone gunman. Hiring multiple guards for a very low probability event's improbable from a budgetary standpoint, and despite the desires of some on the right we're not going to emulate Israel's approach of deputizing a significant fraction of the faculty.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
I agree with pretty much everything that you just said. :thumbsup: A guy I work with brought up the deputizing of faculty, and I tried to explain to him why that would neither work nor ever happen.
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
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Yayozama wrote:
That we all should be armed in the streets to kill THAT bad guys?
Until existing laws are enforced, that is the only right answer. In Mexico, however, the government is apparently just as corrupt as the people they're supposed to be apprehending, at least in the jurisdictions that matter.
Yayozama wrote:
That's the work of the police and the army... and they are doing their jobs (more slowly that I want, but they are catching a lot of drug lords -the problem is that the head grow faster again).
The problem is that they're probably working *for* another drug lord (that's paying them more than all the others) to help exterminate the competition.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Until existing laws are enforced, that is the only right answer.
So, you kill someone related to a BIG drug delear... and you put you and your family at risk of a vendetta. Yes, that sound right.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
In Mexico, however, the government is apparently just as corrupt as the people they're supposed to be apprehending, at least in the jurisdictions that matter.
Yeah, I know (I'm not playing a blind man, you know?) But, I firmly believe that (in the last years at least) the goverment is trying to control the BIG cartels (and the corruption is waaaay below that level). I mean, a low drug delear will not come out killing innocent people.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
The problem is that they're probably working *for* another drug lord (that's paying them more than all the others) to help exterminate the competition.
"probably" is the keyword. Yes, I know how corrupt is/was the goverment, but I think that if we had an easy access to guns, this would be a utter chaos. At least they are doing their job (step by step), and now there's more in play (polliticaly) than ever...
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Yayozama wrote:
What else can you do with a gun? A gun is made to hurt someone... there's no other use to that thing. Don't you think that the context is completly different?
Hunting and self-defense.
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
So... hurt/kill someone or something. What I'm mean is that the ultimate goal of a weapon is to hurt or kill someone, there's no other use to them. I don't see anything wrong with hunting (I mean, I have never hunted something, but I understand that a lot of people like it). Would you use it to self-defense against another gun?
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So... hurt/kill someone or something. What I'm mean is that the ultimate goal of a weapon is to hurt or kill someone, there's no other use to them. I don't see anything wrong with hunting (I mean, I have never hunted something, but I understand that a lot of people like it). Would you use it to self-defense against another gun?
Yayozama wrote:
Would you use it to self-defense against another gun?
Yes, but I would also use it for other situations. If I were attacked by multiple people with knives and I had a gun, I can guarantee to you I wouldn't be stabbed... Also, in the zombie apocalypse, would you rather have a knife and a baseball bat, or a shotgun and a rifle? ;P
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
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Yayozama wrote:
Would you use it to self-defense against another gun?
Yes, but I would also use it for other situations. If I were attacked by multiple people with knives and I had a gun, I can guarantee to you I wouldn't be stabbed... Also, in the zombie apocalypse, would you rather have a knife and a baseball bat, or a shotgun and a rifle? ;P
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
Colin Mullikin wrote:
Yes, but I would also use it for other situations. If I were attacked by multiple people with knives and I had a gun, I can guarantee to you I wouldn't be stabbed...
Fair point, and in fact I'm not thinking in a complete ban of guns... I just think that's extremely easy to get one (probably easier than a car or a house). As I said before, for better or for worse, those are your laws. Usually I don't get in yours back and forth chats about weapons/politics/etc, because they don't concern me. But, as a parent, this was a really sad story, and a shock that a young man grabbed the weapons of his mother and then went to shoot her, and 25+ other human beings (with 20 or more children). Seriously, I can't even describe you how sick and sad that makes me fell only for remember.
Colin Mullikin wrote:
Also, in the zombie apocalypse, would you rather have a knife and a baseball bat, or a shotgun and a rifle? ;-P
Actually, according to the Left 4 Dead series... a loud gun will only bring more zombies against me ;P
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If you have all the correct paperwork.
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RugbyLeague wrote:
If you have all the correct paperwork.
Again that still has nothing to do with what you posted and to what I responded to. If you want to re-state what you meant then go for it.
It has everything to do with it
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It has everything to do with it