Office layouts
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That's exactly as what we have.
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Anyone have any good ideas on compromises between private offices and open office layouts? Private offices are apparently too expensive, and open layouts suck. So I'm looking for some ideas in between that work, or ways to desuckify open office layouts. Note that there will be no agile, XP, pair programming, or any other hippie crap going on. Thanks
CPallini wrote:
You cannot argue with agile people so just take the extreme approach and shoot him. :Smile:
The compromise is to have large private offices for 4-8 persons. If you cannot have that, have cubicles with higher partitions between different sections and lower or no partitions between functional groups; so that there is at least a sense of privacy when sitting down (not see the head of other people). (that's what is what we have) If your people have to talk on the phone; then, they will need private offices to have them moved away from developers (higher partitions between them and the rest of the group).
Nihil obstat
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What sucks about an open office? We have one and it's great, much more sociable than being hidden behind cube walls. An open plan office with some breakout rooms and a little discipline in how loudly you talk in the main office is a nice place to work.
"Sociable" meaning distracted and getting nothing done. No thanks.
CPallini wrote:
You cannot argue with agile people so just take the extreme approach and shoot him. :Smile:
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The compromise is to have large private offices for 4-8 persons. If you cannot have that, have cubicles with higher partitions between different sections and lower or no partitions between functional groups; so that there is at least a sense of privacy when sitting down (not see the head of other people). (that's what is what we have) If your people have to talk on the phone; then, they will need private offices to have them moved away from developers (higher partitions between them and the rest of the group).
Nihil obstat
High partitioned cubes sound like a decent idea, thanks!
CPallini wrote:
You cannot argue with agile people so just take the extreme approach and shoot him. :Smile:
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What sucks about an open office? We have one and it's great, much more sociable than being hidden behind cube walls. An open plan office with some breakout rooms and a little discipline in how loudly you talk in the main office is a nice place to work.
Seems that we are encountering the difference between extroverts and introverts. I loathe open offices. Don't like cubicle farms much either, but they are infinitely better. My best office was a private office with a north facing window with a view of the local mountains (they set the thermostat very low, but a space heater fixed that.)
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Anyone have any good ideas on compromises between private offices and open office layouts? Private offices are apparently too expensive, and open layouts suck. So I'm looking for some ideas in between that work, or ways to desuckify open office layouts. Note that there will be no agile, XP, pair programming, or any other hippie crap going on. Thanks
CPallini wrote:
You cannot argue with agile people so just take the extreme approach and shoot him. :Smile:
Shelby Robertson wrote:
Note that there will be no agile, XP, pair programming, or any other hippie crap going on.
So, no indoor trees then...? ;P
The United States invariably does the right thing, after having exhausted every other alternative. -Winston Churchill America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between. -Oscar Wilde Wow, even the French showed a little more spine than that before they got their sh*t pushed in.[^] -Colin Mullikin
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I had my own office for years, I hated it
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Anyone have any good ideas on compromises between private offices and open office layouts? Private offices are apparently too expensive, and open layouts suck. So I'm looking for some ideas in between that work, or ways to desuckify open office layouts. Note that there will be no agile, XP, pair programming, or any other hippie crap going on. Thanks
CPallini wrote:
You cannot argue with agile people so just take the extreme approach and shoot him. :Smile:
Make sure that the guy who subscribes to the best porn sites has plenty of free space behind his chair.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Anyone have any good ideas on compromises between private offices and open office layouts? Private offices are apparently too expensive, and open layouts suck. So I'm looking for some ideas in between that work, or ways to desuckify open office layouts. Note that there will be no agile, XP, pair programming, or any other hippie crap going on. Thanks
CPallini wrote:
You cannot argue with agile people so just take the extreme approach and shoot him. :Smile:
You can always go with a "Prairie Dog Village" of high walled cubicles. I much preferred that to the half height cubes they had at the corporate headquarters of a place I worked. It was like being in a fish bowl. The full height cubes gave you some privacy so you could concentrate on your project instead of hearing everyone's conversations as in the other office.
Shelby Robertson wrote:
Note that there will be no agile, XP, pair programming, or any other hippie crap going on.
:thumbsup:
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
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What sucks about an open office? We have one and it's great, much more sociable than being hidden behind cube walls. An open plan office with some breakout rooms and a little discipline in how loudly you talk in the main office is a nice place to work.
Because in an open plan office with lots of people talking and phones going and people walking around, it takes much longer to get into "the zone", it's much easier to be distracted out of it, and it takes longer to get back into it again. If you are doing a job which doesn't require much thought open plan is fine, but for a programmer I would say being able to cut yourself off when necessary is essential.
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Anyone have any good ideas on compromises between private offices and open office layouts? Private offices are apparently too expensive, and open layouts suck. So I'm looking for some ideas in between that work, or ways to desuckify open office layouts. Note that there will be no agile, XP, pair programming, or any other hippie crap going on. Thanks
CPallini wrote:
You cannot argue with agile people so just take the extreme approach and shoot him. :Smile:
I'll add my vote for high cubicle partitions: 60 inches at least, 72 if possible. If you can, go for the more expensive ones that include significant sound-absorption material (yes, there are differences). Move the constant phone-yackers into their own area (or just kill them; take your pick). We have the high partitions, which is nice. Unfortunately they went with the cheap materials, so noise is a problem. I'm also surrounded by phone junkies, so I'm forced to use a pair of studio headphones if I want to get anything useful done.
Shelby Robertson wrote:
there will be no agile, XP, pair programming, or any other hippie crap going on
Excellent.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
Because in an open plan office with lots of people talking and phones going and people walking around, it takes much longer to get into "the zone", it's much easier to be distracted out of it, and it takes longer to get back into it again. If you are doing a job which doesn't require much thought open plan is fine, but for a programmer I would say being able to cut yourself off when necessary is essential.
:thumbsup: +5
CPallini wrote:
You cannot argue with agile people so just take the extreme approach and shoot him. :Smile:
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And the rest of the staff refused to have you in with them?
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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What sucks about an open office? We have one and it's great, much more sociable than being hidden behind cube walls. An open plan office with some breakout rooms and a little discipline in how loudly you talk in the main office is a nice place to work.
Sometimes people stop and tell me "Inner voice", usually happens when I am happily excited. Also I have worked with someone in the past where the guy was talking so soft I had to tell him to speak up cause I couldn't hear what he was saying. Maybe I should get my ears checked out :) .
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Anyone have any good ideas on compromises between private offices and open office layouts? Private offices are apparently too expensive, and open layouts suck. So I'm looking for some ideas in between that work, or ways to desuckify open office layouts. Note that there will be no agile, XP, pair programming, or any other hippie crap going on. Thanks
CPallini wrote:
You cannot argue with agile people so just take the extreme approach and shoot him. :Smile:
Measure the output of the developers when they work in a private office vs when they work in an open office layout. If people perform best when working in a private office, let them have a private office - and if they perform well in an open office layout, let them work there. On the average I would expect those who perform best in a private office to significantly outperform those who work best in an open office layout.
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Projects promoting programming in "natural language" are intrinsically doomed to fail. Edsger W.Dijkstra
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Because in an open plan office with lots of people talking and phones going and people walking around, it takes much longer to get into "the zone", it's much easier to be distracted out of it, and it takes longer to get back into it again. If you are doing a job which doesn't require much thought open plan is fine, but for a programmer I would say being able to cut yourself off when necessary is essential.
I am a programmer :p. As long as people use their 'indoor voice' and there aren't lots of phones (which I agree are a killer), I have no problem getting into the zone. If you're easily distracted by noise then headphones and some relaxing music can be very helpful.
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Compartmentalise. And no, that does not mean cubicles. Break areas into groups so that there are 3 or 4 people in a block so that they can interact with social discourse, but not so open as it looks like a boiler room.
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^]
I agree with this one. In my old company we used to be fully open planned (all departments could see and hear each other). We moved offices and split into different departments, this meant we could talk more openly and helped create functional, solid teams. It also stopped other departments getting annoyed with our technical debates over x and y. It also helped us talk in private when necessary about issues. An example being that we had a bunch of redundancies after the office move and it wasn't appropriate to talk about them in a public area. You'll be surprised how talking about it actually helps in morale, as it gives a mentality of "we are all in it together". I was working at an established SMB with about 40 employees.
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The compromise is to have large private offices for 4-8 persons. If you cannot have that, have cubicles with higher partitions between different sections and lower or no partitions between functional groups; so that there is at least a sense of privacy when sitting down (not see the head of other people). (that's what is what we have) If your people have to talk on the phone; then, they will need private offices to have them moved away from developers (higher partitions between them and the rest of the group).
Nihil obstat
I've been through various options of boxes to open plan and everything in between, over several years. Bit of an extrovert but need to find my own "zone" occasionally. Strong advocate of "cardboard-cutout" problem solving. So ... For a good mix of productivity and "socialisation" overall I think Maximilien is spot on (as was DD above)
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Anyone have any good ideas on compromises between private offices and open office layouts? Private offices are apparently too expensive, and open layouts suck. So I'm looking for some ideas in between that work, or ways to desuckify open office layouts. Note that there will be no agile, XP, pair programming, or any other hippie crap going on. Thanks
CPallini wrote:
You cannot argue with agile people so just take the extreme approach and shoot him. :Smile:
What's worked out best in the environments I've inhabited / managed has been:
- A nod toward privacy for individual developers;
- Copious areas for meetings, conversations, and general head-knocking.
Individual offices (which might be cubicles) don't have to be terribly large. Similarly, meeting rooms should be a range of sizes -- and there should be a couple, at least, that cannot be "reserved" by some swelled head for a meeting he alone thinks is critically important.
The underlying idea here is that individuals' needs are not static; they change according to circumstances and the challenges in them. The one thing that cannot be provided as an afterthought is privacy, so that must be planned into the layout. However, when it's necessary to break the isolation, that must be possible too, so a goodly supply of meeting places, such that your developers can always count on getting access to one at need, is highly desirable.
Oh, and don't forget to provide a room for the coffee mess and refrigerator!
(This message is programming you in ways you cannot detect. Be afraid.)
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I am a programmer :p. As long as people use their 'indoor voice' and there aren't lots of phones (which I agree are a killer), I have no problem getting into the zone. If you're easily distracted by noise then headphones and some relaxing music can be very helpful.