Office layouts
-
I had my own office for years, I hated it
-
Anyone have any good ideas on compromises between private offices and open office layouts? Private offices are apparently too expensive, and open layouts suck. So I'm looking for some ideas in between that work, or ways to desuckify open office layouts. Note that there will be no agile, XP, pair programming, or any other hippie crap going on. Thanks
CPallini wrote:
You cannot argue with agile people so just take the extreme approach and shoot him. :Smile:
Make sure that the guy who subscribes to the best porn sites has plenty of free space behind his chair.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
-
Anyone have any good ideas on compromises between private offices and open office layouts? Private offices are apparently too expensive, and open layouts suck. So I'm looking for some ideas in between that work, or ways to desuckify open office layouts. Note that there will be no agile, XP, pair programming, or any other hippie crap going on. Thanks
CPallini wrote:
You cannot argue with agile people so just take the extreme approach and shoot him. :Smile:
You can always go with a "Prairie Dog Village" of high walled cubicles. I much preferred that to the half height cubes they had at the corporate headquarters of a place I worked. It was like being in a fish bowl. The full height cubes gave you some privacy so you could concentrate on your project instead of hearing everyone's conversations as in the other office.
Shelby Robertson wrote:
Note that there will be no agile, XP, pair programming, or any other hippie crap going on.
:thumbsup:
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
-
What sucks about an open office? We have one and it's great, much more sociable than being hidden behind cube walls. An open plan office with some breakout rooms and a little discipline in how loudly you talk in the main office is a nice place to work.
Because in an open plan office with lots of people talking and phones going and people walking around, it takes much longer to get into "the zone", it's much easier to be distracted out of it, and it takes longer to get back into it again. If you are doing a job which doesn't require much thought open plan is fine, but for a programmer I would say being able to cut yourself off when necessary is essential.
-
Anyone have any good ideas on compromises between private offices and open office layouts? Private offices are apparently too expensive, and open layouts suck. So I'm looking for some ideas in between that work, or ways to desuckify open office layouts. Note that there will be no agile, XP, pair programming, or any other hippie crap going on. Thanks
CPallini wrote:
You cannot argue with agile people so just take the extreme approach and shoot him. :Smile:
I'll add my vote for high cubicle partitions: 60 inches at least, 72 if possible. If you can, go for the more expensive ones that include significant sound-absorption material (yes, there are differences). Move the constant phone-yackers into their own area (or just kill them; take your pick). We have the high partitions, which is nice. Unfortunately they went with the cheap materials, so noise is a problem. I'm also surrounded by phone junkies, so I'm forced to use a pair of studio headphones if I want to get anything useful done.
Shelby Robertson wrote:
there will be no agile, XP, pair programming, or any other hippie crap going on
Excellent.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
Because in an open plan office with lots of people talking and phones going and people walking around, it takes much longer to get into "the zone", it's much easier to be distracted out of it, and it takes longer to get back into it again. If you are doing a job which doesn't require much thought open plan is fine, but for a programmer I would say being able to cut yourself off when necessary is essential.
:thumbsup: +5
CPallini wrote:
You cannot argue with agile people so just take the extreme approach and shoot him. :Smile:
-
And the rest of the staff refused to have you in with them?
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
-
What sucks about an open office? We have one and it's great, much more sociable than being hidden behind cube walls. An open plan office with some breakout rooms and a little discipline in how loudly you talk in the main office is a nice place to work.
Sometimes people stop and tell me "Inner voice", usually happens when I am happily excited. Also I have worked with someone in the past where the guy was talking so soft I had to tell him to speak up cause I couldn't hear what he was saying. Maybe I should get my ears checked out :) .
-
Anyone have any good ideas on compromises between private offices and open office layouts? Private offices are apparently too expensive, and open layouts suck. So I'm looking for some ideas in between that work, or ways to desuckify open office layouts. Note that there will be no agile, XP, pair programming, or any other hippie crap going on. Thanks
CPallini wrote:
You cannot argue with agile people so just take the extreme approach and shoot him. :Smile:
Measure the output of the developers when they work in a private office vs when they work in an open office layout. If people perform best when working in a private office, let them have a private office - and if they perform well in an open office layout, let them work there. On the average I would expect those who perform best in a private office to significantly outperform those who work best in an open office layout.
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Projects promoting programming in "natural language" are intrinsically doomed to fail. Edsger W.Dijkstra
-
Because in an open plan office with lots of people talking and phones going and people walking around, it takes much longer to get into "the zone", it's much easier to be distracted out of it, and it takes longer to get back into it again. If you are doing a job which doesn't require much thought open plan is fine, but for a programmer I would say being able to cut yourself off when necessary is essential.
I am a programmer :p. As long as people use their 'indoor voice' and there aren't lots of phones (which I agree are a killer), I have no problem getting into the zone. If you're easily distracted by noise then headphones and some relaxing music can be very helpful.
-
Compartmentalise. And no, that does not mean cubicles. Break areas into groups so that there are 3 or 4 people in a block so that they can interact with social discourse, but not so open as it looks like a boiler room.
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^]
I agree with this one. In my old company we used to be fully open planned (all departments could see and hear each other). We moved offices and split into different departments, this meant we could talk more openly and helped create functional, solid teams. It also stopped other departments getting annoyed with our technical debates over x and y. It also helped us talk in private when necessary about issues. An example being that we had a bunch of redundancies after the office move and it wasn't appropriate to talk about them in a public area. You'll be surprised how talking about it actually helps in morale, as it gives a mentality of "we are all in it together". I was working at an established SMB with about 40 employees.
-
The compromise is to have large private offices for 4-8 persons. If you cannot have that, have cubicles with higher partitions between different sections and lower or no partitions between functional groups; so that there is at least a sense of privacy when sitting down (not see the head of other people). (that's what is what we have) If your people have to talk on the phone; then, they will need private offices to have them moved away from developers (higher partitions between them and the rest of the group).
Nihil obstat
I've been through various options of boxes to open plan and everything in between, over several years. Bit of an extrovert but need to find my own "zone" occasionally. Strong advocate of "cardboard-cutout" problem solving. So ... For a good mix of productivity and "socialisation" overall I think Maximilien is spot on (as was DD above)
-
Anyone have any good ideas on compromises between private offices and open office layouts? Private offices are apparently too expensive, and open layouts suck. So I'm looking for some ideas in between that work, or ways to desuckify open office layouts. Note that there will be no agile, XP, pair programming, or any other hippie crap going on. Thanks
CPallini wrote:
You cannot argue with agile people so just take the extreme approach and shoot him. :Smile:
What's worked out best in the environments I've inhabited / managed has been:
- A nod toward privacy for individual developers;
- Copious areas for meetings, conversations, and general head-knocking.
Individual offices (which might be cubicles) don't have to be terribly large. Similarly, meeting rooms should be a range of sizes -- and there should be a couple, at least, that cannot be "reserved" by some swelled head for a meeting he alone thinks is critically important.
The underlying idea here is that individuals' needs are not static; they change according to circumstances and the challenges in them. The one thing that cannot be provided as an afterthought is privacy, so that must be planned into the layout. However, when it's necessary to break the isolation, that must be possible too, so a goodly supply of meeting places, such that your developers can always count on getting access to one at need, is highly desirable.
Oh, and don't forget to provide a room for the coffee mess and refrigerator!
(This message is programming you in ways you cannot detect. Be afraid.)
-
I am a programmer :p. As long as people use their 'indoor voice' and there aren't lots of phones (which I agree are a killer), I have no problem getting into the zone. If you're easily distracted by noise then headphones and some relaxing music can be very helpful.
-
Anyone have any good ideas on compromises between private offices and open office layouts? Private offices are apparently too expensive, and open layouts suck. So I'm looking for some ideas in between that work, or ways to desuckify open office layouts. Note that there will be no agile, XP, pair programming, or any other hippie crap going on. Thanks
CPallini wrote:
You cannot argue with agile people so just take the extreme approach and shoot him. :Smile:
The issue is not necessarily open offices, but keeping the environment QUIET so that you can focus on the code. Most programmers fall into the introvert side of the extrovert\introvert scale. Background noise and interruptions are disastrous for introverts. IF you can keep the environment quiet and free of interruptions you can high level of concentration from your introvert folks
-
Anyone have any good ideas on compromises between private offices and open office layouts? Private offices are apparently too expensive, and open layouts suck. So I'm looking for some ideas in between that work, or ways to desuckify open office layouts. Note that there will be no agile, XP, pair programming, or any other hippie crap going on. Thanks
CPallini wrote:
You cannot argue with agile people so just take the extreme approach and shoot him. :Smile:
In my experience I would say it depends on the type of work being done. If the work involves lots of small tasks/requests done by and for many different people or even if it's a medium-sized single project but done in an agile way, open plan or cubicle is best. However if the work is for a large complex system and is technically difficult, requires focus, and many hours of work, then private offices are more suitable.
-
Compartmentalise. And no, that does not mean cubicles. Break areas into groups so that there are 3 or 4 people in a block so that they can interact with social discourse, but not so open as it looks like a boiler room.
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^]
I agree with what I think Dave's writing. The best solutions I've seen are those with a few developers on a team sharing a common area. Encourages teamwork and the turn around, "hey Bob, I'm hung up on this." sort of interaction. Keep in mind that there needs to be some private area too; meeting rooms or the like, so when someone needs to have a discussion, they can go in there without interrupting the other members of the team. However, if possible, these groups should not just be thrown out in the middle of an open area. Where I'm currently working we went from a setup of all the developers in one end of the building in a mostly shared area to a cube farm sort of setup, where the cubes are aligned linearly and right outside the kitchen. < rant > So, in addition to moving to s****y call-center-worker sized cubes which encourage separation, we get all the noise of people getting their coffee, lunch, having their social time in the kitchen. Of course, a wall/divider to block some of the noise has been talked about since June. Needless to say, management isn't that effective. Maybe for the first anniversary of the move. < / rant > Anyway, don't do that.
-
What's worked out best in the environments I've inhabited / managed has been:
- A nod toward privacy for individual developers;
- Copious areas for meetings, conversations, and general head-knocking.
Individual offices (which might be cubicles) don't have to be terribly large. Similarly, meeting rooms should be a range of sizes -- and there should be a couple, at least, that cannot be "reserved" by some swelled head for a meeting he alone thinks is critically important.
The underlying idea here is that individuals' needs are not static; they change according to circumstances and the challenges in them. The one thing that cannot be provided as an afterthought is privacy, so that must be planned into the layout. However, when it's necessary to break the isolation, that must be possible too, so a goodly supply of meeting places, such that your developers can always count on getting access to one at need, is highly desirable.
Oh, and don't forget to provide a room for the coffee mess and refrigerator!
(This message is programming you in ways you cannot detect. Be afraid.)
Fran Porretto wrote:
Individual offices (which might be cubicles) don't have to be terribly large. Similarly, meeting rooms should be a range of sizes -- and there should be a couple, at least, that cannot be "reserved" by some swelled head for a meeting he alone thinks is critically important.
Couldn't agree with you more.
CPallini wrote:
You cannot argue with agile people so just take the extreme approach and shoot him. :Smile:
-
Because in an open plan office with lots of people talking and phones going and people walking around, it takes much longer to get into "the zone", it's much easier to be distracted out of it, and it takes longer to get back into it again. If you are doing a job which doesn't require much thought open plan is fine, but for a programmer I would say being able to cut yourself off when necessary is essential.
No one has mentioned bookcases, which don't fit well in an open plan. I know, books are passe these days, but I still keep a few for reference. So, at least some sort of cubicle wall is needed. Regarding being in the zone, I am able to ignore almost anything (just ask my wife) to concentrate on work. Noise doesn't bother me as long as it isn't intelligent noise (which means most people talking are no distraction). My kids need headphones, which seem to work. I am distracted though by anyone staring at me while I try to work. And last but not least, no one has mentioned passing gas, for which a private office is needed, preferably in a corner with a separate air flow system and a window.
-
Measure the output of the developers when they work in a private office vs when they work in an open office layout. If people perform best when working in a private office, let them have a private office - and if they perform well in an open office layout, let them work there. On the average I would expect those who perform best in a private office to significantly outperform those who work best in an open office layout.
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Projects promoting programming in "natural language" are intrinsically doomed to fail. Edsger W.Dijkstra
This guy is hilarious. Probably comes from a six sigma, "measure everything" background. If you've been in software for more than 15 minutes, you'd know that the major dilemma of the last 20 years is how the hell to "measure the output of the developers".