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I would have to say...

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  • M Marc Clifton

    ...that after bopping around various projects that I have that are in VS 2008, 2010 or 2012, I find VS2008 is the last usable IDE that Microsoft has put out. It didn't just go downhill from there (which I know some think has been the overall trend since VS BC 1), no, the usability and presentation fell off the f***ing cliff. While VS2010 sort of hit a landing halfway down, VS2012 is lying at the bottom of the ravine in a broken pile of pathetic performance and butt ugly presentation. Hopefully the monsoons will come and wash this eye sore away some time soon. Marc

    Latest Article: Intertexti - Resurrecting Apple's HyperCard
    My Blog

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    Ennis Ray Lynch Jr
    wrote on last edited by
    #14

    I don't really like VS 2012 visually but, for the things I do, there are some improvements. For example, edit and continue with lamdba expressions in method is nice. Unfortunately, you have to double enter with typing a watch, and watch intellisense doesn't work. All in all, I would say it is a wash with no compelling reason to upgrade but I wouldn't write it off entirely. Also, the Thread debugging features do crash less.

    Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch

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    • M Marc Clifton

      ...that after bopping around various projects that I have that are in VS 2008, 2010 or 2012, I find VS2008 is the last usable IDE that Microsoft has put out. It didn't just go downhill from there (which I know some think has been the overall trend since VS BC 1), no, the usability and presentation fell off the f***ing cliff. While VS2010 sort of hit a landing halfway down, VS2012 is lying at the bottom of the ravine in a broken pile of pathetic performance and butt ugly presentation. Hopefully the monsoons will come and wash this eye sore away some time soon. Marc

      Latest Article: Intertexti - Resurrecting Apple's HyperCard
      My Blog

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      H Brydon
      wrote on last edited by
      #15

      I like the new language features and bugfixes with the newer compiler versions, but the last Visual Studio IDE version that I really liked was VS6. I use double wide monitors and typically like to have 20 to 30 windows open. This kinda lends itself to the MDI paradigm, which was last best implemented with VS6. I really dislike the sliding tabbed window stuff which is all we get now.

      -- Harvey

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      • S Shelby Robertson

        Whats wrong with 2012? I have found it to be a lot better than 2010, but then again I haven't used it with a production size project yet.

        CPallini wrote:

        You cannot argue with agile people so just take the extreme approach and shoot him. :Smile:

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        Mark_Wallace
        wrote on last edited by
        #16

        Too many unfulfilled promises. i.e. the world didn't end.

        I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!

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        • M Marc Clifton

          ...that after bopping around various projects that I have that are in VS 2008, 2010 or 2012, I find VS2008 is the last usable IDE that Microsoft has put out. It didn't just go downhill from there (which I know some think has been the overall trend since VS BC 1), no, the usability and presentation fell off the f***ing cliff. While VS2010 sort of hit a landing halfway down, VS2012 is lying at the bottom of the ravine in a broken pile of pathetic performance and butt ugly presentation. Hopefully the monsoons will come and wash this eye sore away some time soon. Marc

          Latest Article: Intertexti - Resurrecting Apple's HyperCard
          My Blog

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          Y Offline
          YvesDaoust
          wrote on last edited by
          #17

          I hope I'll never have to use VS 2010, way too slow to launch. Fortunately, I won't use 2012 soon since installing the beta broke my system so much that it became perfectly impossible to uninstall/repair/install or whatever. The little I saw of it shows it grew more monstruous than the former. I have worked a lot with VS 2003 and still use it as my main development platform, even though it has several irritating features such as very sloooow debugging. VS 2008 is cool too. Globally speaking, these IDE are marvels. My only regrets are that GUI applications often resist to debugging by not getting you to the very crash location (see what I mean ?). And that the Profiler went away from the standard version. I still love VC6 for being so fast. For a daily usage, little of VC has changed over the successive versions. In recent months, I have used Eclipse a lot more. It doesn't stand the comparison.

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          • M Marc Clifton

            ...that after bopping around various projects that I have that are in VS 2008, 2010 or 2012, I find VS2008 is the last usable IDE that Microsoft has put out. It didn't just go downhill from there (which I know some think has been the overall trend since VS BC 1), no, the usability and presentation fell off the f***ing cliff. While VS2010 sort of hit a landing halfway down, VS2012 is lying at the bottom of the ravine in a broken pile of pathetic performance and butt ugly presentation. Hopefully the monsoons will come and wash this eye sore away some time soon. Marc

            Latest Article: Intertexti - Resurrecting Apple's HyperCard
            My Blog

            J Offline
            J Offline
            JeremyBob
            wrote on last edited by
            #18

            Personally I loved 2005/2008. I didn't mind 2010, but it was slow. I took one look at 2012, and decided I didn't want to use it unless I'm forced to. 2003 and earlier were just plain horrid (though most of my opinion on it is based on coding in .Net 1.1.)

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            • M Marc Clifton

              ...that after bopping around various projects that I have that are in VS 2008, 2010 or 2012, I find VS2008 is the last usable IDE that Microsoft has put out. It didn't just go downhill from there (which I know some think has been the overall trend since VS BC 1), no, the usability and presentation fell off the f***ing cliff. While VS2010 sort of hit a landing halfway down, VS2012 is lying at the bottom of the ravine in a broken pile of pathetic performance and butt ugly presentation. Hopefully the monsoons will come and wash this eye sore away some time soon. Marc

              Latest Article: Intertexti - Resurrecting Apple's HyperCard
              My Blog

              J Offline
              J Offline
              Jonathan C Dickinson
              wrote on last edited by
              #19

              I found 2012 to be much faster than 2008 (and that's on a HyperV VM, i.e. no hardware UI acceleration). Update 2 is especially quick (they got rid of a few of those wait dialogs and mundane things like how fast characters appear on the screen are incredibly fast now). If you use TFS at all the source control explorer is also a lot faster (especially "get latest"), not to mention the parallel project loading (something 2008 is still dreadful at). My cup of tea isn't yours - but I seriously think 2012 is a major step forward. Also, how many extensions do you have loaded up in 2012? Because 2008 didn't have the simple extension framework from 2010/2012 it's a lot more difficult to bog 2008 down with unnecessary crap. Edit: Also Update 2 has a newer, more colorful, color scheme - for those who want it. I personally concentrate on my code more; so all IDEs look the same (colored text on a plain background) - the dull 2012 IDE actually helps with concentration because I get less distracted by the chrome/frame.

              He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Chinese Proverb] Jonathan C Dickinson (C# Software Engineer)

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              • M Marc Clifton

                ...that after bopping around various projects that I have that are in VS 2008, 2010 or 2012, I find VS2008 is the last usable IDE that Microsoft has put out. It didn't just go downhill from there (which I know some think has been the overall trend since VS BC 1), no, the usability and presentation fell off the f***ing cliff. While VS2010 sort of hit a landing halfway down, VS2012 is lying at the bottom of the ravine in a broken pile of pathetic performance and butt ugly presentation. Hopefully the monsoons will come and wash this eye sore away some time soon. Marc

                Latest Article: Intertexti - Resurrecting Apple's HyperCard
                My Blog

                K Offline
                K Offline
                Kashif_Imran
                wrote on last edited by
                #20

                MS could have done worse. Just think of how they went from Win7 to Win8. I am sure the ride from VS08 to VS10 to VS12 will start looking way better. Maybe MS have become sick of the lawsuits regarding competition and monopoly things!

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                • M Marc Clifton

                  ...that after bopping around various projects that I have that are in VS 2008, 2010 or 2012, I find VS2008 is the last usable IDE that Microsoft has put out. It didn't just go downhill from there (which I know some think has been the overall trend since VS BC 1), no, the usability and presentation fell off the f***ing cliff. While VS2010 sort of hit a landing halfway down, VS2012 is lying at the bottom of the ravine in a broken pile of pathetic performance and butt ugly presentation. Hopefully the monsoons will come and wash this eye sore away some time soon. Marc

                  Latest Article: Intertexti - Resurrecting Apple's HyperCard
                  My Blog

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                  N Offline
                  N J Wong
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #21

                  Agree. Also, visually, VS2008 is beautiful. VS2010 suffers from the blues. And VS2012 is really bland and bleak. I have to use VS2008 because of applications running on .NET Compact Framework 3.5 on Windows Mobile and Windows CE devices. Using VS2010 for Windows Forms applications that interact with Crystal Reports. Haven't started with VS2012 because Crystal Reports wasn't ready (SAP just released Crystal Reports for Visual Studio 2012 3 weeks ago). I wish that VS2012 can be skinned to be as beautiful as VS2008. VS2012 is so dull and ugly.

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                  • M Marc Clifton

                    ...that after bopping around various projects that I have that are in VS 2008, 2010 or 2012, I find VS2008 is the last usable IDE that Microsoft has put out. It didn't just go downhill from there (which I know some think has been the overall trend since VS BC 1), no, the usability and presentation fell off the f***ing cliff. While VS2010 sort of hit a landing halfway down, VS2012 is lying at the bottom of the ravine in a broken pile of pathetic performance and butt ugly presentation. Hopefully the monsoons will come and wash this eye sore away some time soon. Marc

                    Latest Article: Intertexti - Resurrecting Apple's HyperCard
                    My Blog

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                    A Offline
                    Anna Jayne Metcalfe
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #22

                    In terms of the IDE itself - without a doubt VS2008. We've used it for Visual Lint since upgrading from VS2003, and the experience has been pretty painless and very productive. However, we're now getting to the point where we really need to start using the serious C++ 11 stuff, so an upgrade to VS2012 is in order. My eyes will probably never forgive me.

                    Anna :rose: Tech Blog | Visual Lint "Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"

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                    • M Marc Clifton

                      ...that after bopping around various projects that I have that are in VS 2008, 2010 or 2012, I find VS2008 is the last usable IDE that Microsoft has put out. It didn't just go downhill from there (which I know some think has been the overall trend since VS BC 1), no, the usability and presentation fell off the f***ing cliff. While VS2010 sort of hit a landing halfway down, VS2012 is lying at the bottom of the ravine in a broken pile of pathetic performance and butt ugly presentation. Hopefully the monsoons will come and wash this eye sore away some time soon. Marc

                      Latest Article: Intertexti - Resurrecting Apple's HyperCard
                      My Blog

                      J Offline
                      J Offline
                      JimBob SquarePants
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #23

                      A lot of you guys sound really old just now. A few of the comments could be summed up with "I don't like change". VS2012 Is a major step forward in performance alone. Have you read the blog? There were some brilliant articles there explaining the work they did to reduce the memory footprint. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/[^] Loading the toolbox for example is waaay faster in VS2012. Templating, Nuget, first-class support for JavaScript and CSS, better edmx designer, intellisense and intellitracing improvements, extension management, the list goes on... All great features. There's even Git integration coming soon. As far as the IDE theme goes, I switched it to the dark theme and my eyes have thanked me since. It's far easier on the peepers than any prior version.

                      JimBob SquarePants ******************************************************************* "He took everything personally, including our royalties!" David St.Hubbins, Spinal Tap about Ian Faith, their ex-manager *******************************************************************

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                      • E Ennis Ray Lynch Jr

                        I don't really like VS 2012 visually but, for the things I do, there are some improvements. For example, edit and continue with lamdba expressions in method is nice. Unfortunately, you have to double enter with typing a watch, and watch intellisense doesn't work. All in all, I would say it is a wash with no compelling reason to upgrade but I wouldn't write it off entirely. Also, the Thread debugging features do crash less.

                        Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch

                        G Offline
                        G Offline
                        Gary Wheeler
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #24

                        Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:

                        the Thread debugging features do crash less

                        Now that's a ringing endorsement :laugh:.

                        Software Zen: delete this;

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                        • M Marc Clifton

                          ...that after bopping around various projects that I have that are in VS 2008, 2010 or 2012, I find VS2008 is the last usable IDE that Microsoft has put out. It didn't just go downhill from there (which I know some think has been the overall trend since VS BC 1), no, the usability and presentation fell off the f***ing cliff. While VS2010 sort of hit a landing halfway down, VS2012 is lying at the bottom of the ravine in a broken pile of pathetic performance and butt ugly presentation. Hopefully the monsoons will come and wash this eye sore away some time soon. Marc

                          Latest Article: Intertexti - Resurrecting Apple's HyperCard
                          My Blog

                          R Offline
                          R Offline
                          Ryan Criddle
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #25

                          I love 2012, quite a bit faster than 2010 and whilst I understand a lot of people hate the "boring gray", just enable the Dark Theme already and stop whinging! :) It's sexy!

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                          • M Marc Clifton

                            ...that after bopping around various projects that I have that are in VS 2008, 2010 or 2012, I find VS2008 is the last usable IDE that Microsoft has put out. It didn't just go downhill from there (which I know some think has been the overall trend since VS BC 1), no, the usability and presentation fell off the f***ing cliff. While VS2010 sort of hit a landing halfway down, VS2012 is lying at the bottom of the ravine in a broken pile of pathetic performance and butt ugly presentation. Hopefully the monsoons will come and wash this eye sore away some time soon. Marc

                            Latest Article: Intertexti - Resurrecting Apple's HyperCard
                            My Blog

                            G Offline
                            G Offline
                            Guy Harwood
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #26

                            Have you used 2012 for a straight week? i despised it at first, but after a week or so i found it more fluid. definitely easier to work in once you get used to it. the 2010 UI seems jarring when i open it now.

                            ---Guy H ;-)---

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                            • G Guy Harwood

                              Have you used 2012 for a straight week? i despised it at first, but after a week or so i found it more fluid. definitely easier to work in once you get used to it. the 2010 UI seems jarring when i open it now.

                              ---Guy H ;-)---

                              B Offline
                              B Offline
                              baffled
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #27

                              Thank goodness the styler is now out so you can change at least some of it from grey. I found it was giving me serious eye strain after just a couple of hours. But I hate the kiddy-crayon graphics and monotone presentation. It does not aid intelligibility. Despite the performance improvements, the presentation seriously affects the usability. I'll be sticking to 2010 for as long as I can.

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                              • J JimBob SquarePants

                                A lot of you guys sound really old just now. A few of the comments could be summed up with "I don't like change". VS2012 Is a major step forward in performance alone. Have you read the blog? There were some brilliant articles there explaining the work they did to reduce the memory footprint. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/[^] Loading the toolbox for example is waaay faster in VS2012. Templating, Nuget, first-class support for JavaScript and CSS, better edmx designer, intellisense and intellitracing improvements, extension management, the list goes on... All great features. There's even Git integration coming soon. As far as the IDE theme goes, I switched it to the dark theme and my eyes have thanked me since. It's far easier on the peepers than any prior version.

                                JimBob SquarePants ******************************************************************* "He took everything personally, including our royalties!" David St.Hubbins, Spinal Tap about Ian Faith, their ex-manager *******************************************************************

                                J Offline
                                J Offline
                                Jonathan C Dickinson
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #28

                                JimBob SquarePants wrote:

                                "I don't like change"

                                • Change Aversion[^]
                                • Cognitive Bias[^]
                                • Distinction Bias[^]
                                • Notably: Cognitive Fluency[^]
                                • Notably: Mere-exposure effect[^]

                                Just some of the things that people who complain about VS2012 are experiencing. Not being a victim of those mental processes are a deliberate decision (i.e. "I am going to evaluate VS2012 based on its merits and not what I am accustomed to").

                                He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Chinese Proverb] Jonathan C Dickinson (C# Software Engineer)

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                                • M Marc Clifton

                                  ...that after bopping around various projects that I have that are in VS 2008, 2010 or 2012, I find VS2008 is the last usable IDE that Microsoft has put out. It didn't just go downhill from there (which I know some think has been the overall trend since VS BC 1), no, the usability and presentation fell off the f***ing cliff. While VS2010 sort of hit a landing halfway down, VS2012 is lying at the bottom of the ravine in a broken pile of pathetic performance and butt ugly presentation. Hopefully the monsoons will come and wash this eye sore away some time soon. Marc

                                  Latest Article: Intertexti - Resurrecting Apple's HyperCard
                                  My Blog

                                  T Offline
                                  T Offline
                                  Tomz_KV
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #29

                                  Although VS2012 claims to have a lot of improvements, some changes in my opinion are really not necessary. For example, "no color" IDE, all new icons, the interface for search and replace looks very unprofessional. It does not have a context menu (need to use key board shortcut for copy & paste). Remote debugging is not functioning properly, which is an important feature that I need to use. I tried to find a hotfix but all the articles I have read point to the next update which does not have a release date yet. Fortunately, something can still be done in VS2010. update: I just found out that the update2 CTP is available. The remote debugging is fixed. However, this is the CTP version. It is better to wait for the final release.

                                  TOMZ_KV

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                                  • M Marc Clifton

                                    ...that after bopping around various projects that I have that are in VS 2008, 2010 or 2012, I find VS2008 is the last usable IDE that Microsoft has put out. It didn't just go downhill from there (which I know some think has been the overall trend since VS BC 1), no, the usability and presentation fell off the f***ing cliff. While VS2010 sort of hit a landing halfway down, VS2012 is lying at the bottom of the ravine in a broken pile of pathetic performance and butt ugly presentation. Hopefully the monsoons will come and wash this eye sore away some time soon. Marc

                                    Latest Article: Intertexti - Resurrecting Apple's HyperCard
                                    My Blog

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                                    C Offline
                                    ClockMeister
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #30

                                    Concur. I keep my copy of VS2008 under lock and key. For the kind of stuff I do on my own I don't see a point in retooling to 2010 or later. I develop primarily desktop and web applications for my own use and to give to friends and family now. For my personal use I'm off the upgrade wagon both with my O/S and my development tools. The stuff I have works fine. -CB

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                                    • M Marc Clifton

                                      ...that after bopping around various projects that I have that are in VS 2008, 2010 or 2012, I find VS2008 is the last usable IDE that Microsoft has put out. It didn't just go downhill from there (which I know some think has been the overall trend since VS BC 1), no, the usability and presentation fell off the f***ing cliff. While VS2010 sort of hit a landing halfway down, VS2012 is lying at the bottom of the ravine in a broken pile of pathetic performance and butt ugly presentation. Hopefully the monsoons will come and wash this eye sore away some time soon. Marc

                                      Latest Article: Intertexti - Resurrecting Apple's HyperCard
                                      My Blog

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                                      B Offline
                                      Bob1000
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #31

                                      A perfect truth! Despite having the rights to upgrade (downgrade!) to 2012 no one in our company wants to move from 2008, it works well - no correction it works very well! Just wish we had C++ 11 with it. Microsoft stopped listening a long time ago to its users and until they rectify that they will be on a downward spiral!

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                                      • M Marc Clifton

                                        ...that after bopping around various projects that I have that are in VS 2008, 2010 or 2012, I find VS2008 is the last usable IDE that Microsoft has put out. It didn't just go downhill from there (which I know some think has been the overall trend since VS BC 1), no, the usability and presentation fell off the f***ing cliff. While VS2010 sort of hit a landing halfway down, VS2012 is lying at the bottom of the ravine in a broken pile of pathetic performance and butt ugly presentation. Hopefully the monsoons will come and wash this eye sore away some time soon. Marc

                                        Latest Article: Intertexti - Resurrecting Apple's HyperCard
                                        My Blog

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                                        Donald Wingate
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #32

                                        I've been programming professionally since 2000. I've always used the latest version VS and I've always found the new versions to be improvements over previous versions. VS 2012 being no exception. Performance has never been an issue for me because I've always kept my computers up to date with Moore's law. Not that any version has ever been perfect. And there are some annoyances which persist through all versions. But VS is a tool, nothing more. And a good craftsman knows his tools and how to get the most out of them. Regarding VS 2012, if gray isn't your thing, then use the Color Theme Editor extension to get some color back. I did this for a while, but have since switched back to gray. After getting used to the IDEA of it, I find it is true what they say - that the gray is less distracting of what I am actually trying to do, which is get some code written.

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                                        • M Marc Clifton

                                          ...that after bopping around various projects that I have that are in VS 2008, 2010 or 2012, I find VS2008 is the last usable IDE that Microsoft has put out. It didn't just go downhill from there (which I know some think has been the overall trend since VS BC 1), no, the usability and presentation fell off the f***ing cliff. While VS2010 sort of hit a landing halfway down, VS2012 is lying at the bottom of the ravine in a broken pile of pathetic performance and butt ugly presentation. Hopefully the monsoons will come and wash this eye sore away some time soon. Marc

                                          Latest Article: Intertexti - Resurrecting Apple's HyperCard
                                          My Blog

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                                          KLPounds
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #33

                                          For the projects I have worked on, VS2008 was the gold standard. It was the right balance of performance and was relatively lean and stable. Especially with the nighmares our team experienced with VS2005. VS2010 isn't bad, I hate it's sloth like performance and bloat. Some of the little things that were taken out as a result of their WPF agenda (ie. native code printing in color). The intellisense improvements, SQL improvments, and Extension ecosystem however make 2010 the overall most "productive" version for me. The Extensions add to the bloat but hey, if you can't beat em, join em right? I will be migrating a couple small projects to VS2012 in the coming months. My initial tinkering seems that VS2012 is maybe a tick more responsive than 2010. Maybe there is something to all that flat and drab UI. I just have to get past the distractions of what MS has told me is what I asked for as a better way for me to get work done.

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