Will All Technology On Earth Fail At Once? Will The Public All Over The World Panic?
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lewax00 wrote:
The stone age ended when the integrated circuit was invented? That's news to me.
The failure of all electronics would revert the industrialized world to a pre-feudal society because basic necessities like food/clothing/heat are now completely dependent on electronics. The chaos from those lacks would impact any small attempts to organize. There are probably some places in the world where it would have less impact however those have little capability for providing and recovery and that presumes that they would not be overrun by neighbors that are not as capable of continuing.
I'm not saying the impact wouldn't be catastrophic, just that the stone age is a little too far of a reversion. And in this case, most of the knowledge of how to build things isn't lost (unless someone goes on a book burning crusade of course), even if it isn't immediately useful.
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lewax00 wrote:
The stone age ended when the integrated circuit was invented? That's news to me.
The failure of all electronics would revert the industrialized world to a pre-feudal society because basic necessities like food/clothing/heat are now completely dependent on electronics. The chaos from those lacks would impact any small attempts to organize. There are probably some places in the world where it would have less impact however those have little capability for providing and recovery and that presumes that they would not be overrun by neighbors that are not as capable of continuing.
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So apparently NASA says that a powerful solar storm or flare will engulf the Earth, this will generate powerful radiation fields that will devastate and destroy all electronics in the world. Throwing us back into the stone age, here's the link to the document: NASA Predicts Massive Solar Flare For 2013 - Should We Worry?
Simple Thanks and Regards, Brandon T. H. Programming in C and C++ now, now developing applications, services and drivers (and maybe some kernel modules...psst kernel-mode drivers...psst). Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up. - Thomas Edison
When the first paragraph of an *Important Message* contains something like "electronic devises", I immediately start to wonder if I should bother reading the rest.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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So apparently NASA says that a powerful solar storm or flare will engulf the Earth, this will generate powerful radiation fields that will devastate and destroy all electronics in the world. Throwing us back into the stone age, here's the link to the document: NASA Predicts Massive Solar Flare For 2013 - Should We Worry?
Simple Thanks and Regards, Brandon T. H. Programming in C and C++ now, now developing applications, services and drivers (and maybe some kernel modules...psst kernel-mode drivers...psst). Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up. - Thomas Edison
Damn! My prediction that 21st December 2012 would mark the end of idiots posting ridiculous crap about the 2012 Mayan Apocalypse seems to have been wrong. X|
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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jkirkerx wrote:
The full story is that god came in a spaceship
I wonder why god needed a spaceship?
That is strange isn't it. That's how the story was told to me when I did a job in northern Arizona, perhaps it made it more interesting. As far as solar flares hitting the earth, it's happened once, but I guess It's like dodging asteroids, just got to be lucky during our lifetime.
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I'm not saying the impact wouldn't be catastrophic, just that the stone age is a little too far of a reversion. And in this case, most of the knowledge of how to build things isn't lost (unless someone goes on a book burning crusade of course), even if it isn't immediately useful.
lewax00 wrote:
And in this case, most of the knowledge of how to build things isn't lost
That supposition is basically incorrect. One can suppose that in a large library there is one single book that tells one how to make iron using basic materials. (Why iron? Because is it easier to make than steel.) But then one must find the other books that tells one how to get the basic materials. And finding the books without a knowledgeable (perhaps a bit fanatic) librarian would require a manual search because the card catalog is electronic. And that is only one single item. There is the simplistic view that one could use existing resources until industry is restored but that ignores the reality of the overall survival situation. 1. One must manage to survive (food, heat, medical, etc) 2. The group survived in must be able to support workers doing the building (living day to day is not sufficient to provide incentive to seek long term goals.) 3. Books are not necessarily sufficient to actually produce something - practical versus theoretical. 4. There will likely be other groups seeking goals that oppose the initial group
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wizardzz wrote:
The world was pretty industrialized before electricity. IE: The first industrial revolution.
Ignition of combustion engines can be driven by compression, not just spark.I understand that. However the period you are referring to was represented by a fairly stable society which had evolved over a long period of time. And the technology of that time existed because of a large array of interconnected micro-economies. Without those the technology of that time would not have succeeded either. And the knowledge base of that time was sufficient to create those technologies. The knowledge base now is specifically not suited to creating that stuff.
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wizardzz wrote:
The world was pretty industrialized before electricity. IE: The first industrial revolution.
Ignition of combustion engines can be driven by compression, not just spark.I understand that. However the period you are referring to was represented by a fairly stable society which had evolved over a long period of time. And the technology of that time existed because of a large array of interconnected micro-economies. Without those the technology of that time would not have succeeded either. And the knowledge base of that time was sufficient to create those technologies. The knowledge base now is specifically not suited to creating that stuff.
I see your point, but people can still grow food, transport it, and sell it without going back to the stone age.
jschell wrote:
And the knowledge base of that time was sufficient to create those technologies. The knowledge base now is specifically not suited to creating that stuff.
If we are talking about the masses, I think the knowledge base now is not suited to creating much of anything. The Amish will set back and laugh, assuming they are well armed.
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lewax00 wrote:
And in this case, most of the knowledge of how to build things isn't lost
That supposition is basically incorrect. One can suppose that in a large library there is one single book that tells one how to make iron using basic materials. (Why iron? Because is it easier to make than steel.) But then one must find the other books that tells one how to get the basic materials. And finding the books without a knowledgeable (perhaps a bit fanatic) librarian would require a manual search because the card catalog is electronic. And that is only one single item. There is the simplistic view that one could use existing resources until industry is restored but that ignores the reality of the overall survival situation. 1. One must manage to survive (food, heat, medical, etc) 2. The group survived in must be able to support workers doing the building (living day to day is not sufficient to provide incentive to seek long term goals.) 3. Books are not necessarily sufficient to actually produce something - practical versus theoretical. 4. There will likely be other groups seeking goals that oppose the initial group
Like I said, it might not be immediately useful. But it is still there, if people are willing to make the effort. And it's still probably a lot faster than reinventing it.
jschell wrote:
would require a manual search because the card catalog is electronic
Most libraries I've been to still have physical card catalogs in addition to the electronic ones. It might only contain entries before a certain date if the electronic one is treated as a replacement instead of a supplement, but many of the books will still be there, especially reference type books like the ones relevant here which aren't replaced often.
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Damn! My prediction that 21st December 2012 would mark the end of idiots posting ridiculous crap about the 2012 Mayan Apocalypse seems to have been wrong. X|
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
>.>
Simple Thanks and Regards, Brandon T. H. Programming in C and C++ now, now developing applications, services and drivers (and maybe some kernel modules...psst kernel-mode drivers...psst). Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up. - Thomas Edison
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I see your point, but people can still grow food, transport it, and sell it without going back to the stone age.
jschell wrote:
And the knowledge base of that time was sufficient to create those technologies. The knowledge base now is specifically not suited to creating that stuff.
If we are talking about the masses, I think the knowledge base now is not suited to creating much of anything. The Amish will set back and laugh, assuming they are well armed.
wizardzz wrote:
I see your point, but people can still grow food, transport it, and sell it without going back to the stone age.
What people can do at what people will do are two different things. 'Civilization' is based on the ability to produce excess. One can spend time sitting in an office because somewhere there is a easy way to produce a vast excess of the essentials of life for the vast majority of the population. When there is no excess or realistically a vast shortage then priorities change.
wizardzz wrote:
, I think the knowledge base now is not suited to creating much of anything.
Of course it is. Creation occurs now based on the current knowledge base. Which is no different from the period you referred to.
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wizardzz wrote:
I see your point, but people can still grow food, transport it, and sell it without going back to the stone age.
What people can do at what people will do are two different things. 'Civilization' is based on the ability to produce excess. One can spend time sitting in an office because somewhere there is a easy way to produce a vast excess of the essentials of life for the vast majority of the population. When there is no excess or realistically a vast shortage then priorities change.
wizardzz wrote:
, I think the knowledge base now is not suited to creating much of anything.
Of course it is. Creation occurs now based on the current knowledge base. Which is no different from the period you referred to.
jschell wrote:
wizardzz wrote:
, I think the knowledge base now is not suited to creating much of anything.
Of course it is. Creation occurs now based on the current knowledge base. Which is no different from the period you referred to.
Why did you selectively quote my last sentence to suite your view? Ignoring the qualifier changes the meaning. Incredibly rude.
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Like I said, it might not be immediately useful. But it is still there, if people are willing to make the effort. And it's still probably a lot faster than reinventing it.
jschell wrote:
would require a manual search because the card catalog is electronic
Most libraries I've been to still have physical card catalogs in addition to the electronic ones. It might only contain entries before a certain date if the electronic one is treated as a replacement instead of a supplement, but many of the books will still be there, especially reference type books like the ones relevant here which aren't replaced often.
lewax00 wrote:
Like I said, it might not be immediately useful. But it is still there, if people are willing to make the effort. And it's still probably a lot faster than reinventing it.
That presumes it will still be there when people reach the point that they want to use it. Consider this scenario, without power creating heat is going to be a problem for a lot of people. And the solution people will find for that is burning things. Anything. And that includes paper. There is a lot paper in a library. Without power there are no fire departments. Which means natural and man-made fires will burn out of control - and see the previous point as to why that will becomes a problem. But what about places that don't need fire for heat? They often suffer from heat and humidity. Which destroy books. And as I tried to point out previously it isn't just a matter of making the effort but rather that there is enough excess production to allow for that. If you or your children are starving you probably are not going to embark on a year long effort to get a iron smithy going.
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jschell wrote:
wizardzz wrote:
, I think the knowledge base now is not suited to creating much of anything.
Of course it is. Creation occurs now based on the current knowledge base. Which is no different from the period you referred to.
Why did you selectively quote my last sentence to suite your view? Ignoring the qualifier changes the meaning. Incredibly rude.
wizardzz wrote:
Why did you selectively quote my last sentence to suite your view? Ignoring the qualifier changes the meaning. Incredibly rude.
Presumably you meant the "masses" part - I don't agree with your qualification. People (the masses) 100 years ago were no more creative than people (the masses) now. Some people were really creative then. Some are really creative now.
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wizardzz wrote:
Why did you selectively quote my last sentence to suite your view? Ignoring the qualifier changes the meaning. Incredibly rude.
Presumably you meant the "masses" part - I don't agree with your qualification. People (the masses) 100 years ago were no more creative than people (the masses) now. Some people were really creative then. Some are really creative now.
jschell wrote:
Presumably you meant the "masses" part - I don't agree with your qualification.
So you selectively quote based on if you agree with it?
jschell wrote:
Some people were really creative then. Some are really creative now.
Nothing to do with creativity. I was referring to self sustainability. People are great at creating code now, but not putting food on the table. The knowledgebase of the general public has moved to civilization dependent knowledge.
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jschell wrote:
Presumably you meant the "masses" part - I don't agree with your qualification.
So you selectively quote based on if you agree with it?
jschell wrote:
Some people were really creative then. Some are really creative now.
Nothing to do with creativity. I was referring to self sustainability. People are great at creating code now, but not putting food on the table. The knowledgebase of the general public has moved to civilization dependent knowledge.
wizardzz wrote:
So you selectively quote based on if you agree with it?
I quote what I comment on. And I didn't think you were placing that much importance on the "masses".
wizardzz wrote:
Nothing to do with creativity. I was referring to self sustainability
Sorry but I fail to see what that has to do with your original comment - "Ignition of combustion engines can be driven by compression, not just spark." And in terms of the period that did in fact know about "combustion engines" there was a substantial number of people who did not know how to substain themselves then either.
