Internet Explorer Buzz
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I saw a headline in the cp mail I got today. It's "Taking the internet explorer challenge" , and something about why IE deserves another look. I didn't read it, and I will probably never give IE another test/chance/look, etc. In fact, the only time I use IE is to see what didn't work in apps. I hear this all the time. "IE 10 isn't bad" , or "they really started cleaning it up since IE 9" or whatever the case may be. The fact is, that IE was junk for so long that I don't care. No other product I can think of would people say "Oh they sucked for so long, but now they are starting to catch up. Sure there are better products that have always stayed current, but IE is still trying". Who cares? They were junk for so long, and could be junk again at the next release.
If it moves, compile it
meh. Apple products sucked for the longest time, and they were on the verge of going the way of the Dodo. Then they came out with the first iThing, and now everyone loves them. Companies are capable of turning things around. Haven't tested it myself, but apparently IE10 has JS performance benchmarks scores second only to Chrome. Don't recall where I read it, but, if true, it wouldn't surprise me in the least. Remember, IE6 didn't get the penetration it did because it was a crappy product. When it was released, it was the best browser on the planet.
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meh. Apple products sucked for the longest time, and they were on the verge of going the way of the Dodo. Then they came out with the first iThing, and now everyone loves them. Companies are capable of turning things around. Haven't tested it myself, but apparently IE10 has JS performance benchmarks scores second only to Chrome. Don't recall where I read it, but, if true, it wouldn't surprise me in the least. Remember, IE6 didn't get the penetration it did because it was a crappy product. When it was released, it was the best browser on the planet.
Vark111 wrote:
Apple products sucked for the longest time,
you wrote that as past tense.
Vark111 wrote:
Remember, IE6 didn't get the penetration it did because it was a crappy product. When it was released, it was the best browser on the planet.
I don't recall it being the best (fooey).
If it moves, compile it
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A much better reason not to use it. If one doesn't upgrade to newer version of Window$, then one will be unable to upgrade their IE version. Compare this to FireFox: latest versions run across so many platforms and versions. So - if I want to see IE working like it should have years/version ago I have to pony up for Win 8/9/10/... I believe the terminology appropriate comment to the M$ Droogies would be something akin to "Screw You".
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IE 10 is also available for Win 7 and Vista. Don't know why not XP, except maybe that XP is being EOL'd.
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mark merrens wrote:
It's just an application: why is there so much hysterical debate over it?
It's kind of like hating on McDonald's. Doing so makes you appear cool to your friends.
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I disagree. From a development perspective, targeting IE is such a nightmare that it trumps all of my concerns except for the horror that is VB6. From a user perspective, you are right I really don't care but then users don't see the costs required to support their flavor.
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meh. Apple products sucked for the longest time, and they were on the verge of going the way of the Dodo. Then they came out with the first iThing, and now everyone loves them. Companies are capable of turning things around. Haven't tested it myself, but apparently IE10 has JS performance benchmarks scores second only to Chrome. Don't recall where I read it, but, if true, it wouldn't surprise me in the least. Remember, IE6 didn't get the penetration it did because it was a crappy product. When it was released, it was the best browser on the planet.
Vark111 wrote:
IE6 didn't get ... penetration
***snicker***snicker***
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering.-Wernher von Braun
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein -
Vark111 wrote:
Apple products sucked for the longest time,
you wrote that as past tense.
Vark111 wrote:
Remember, IE6 didn't get the penetration it did because it was a crappy product. When it was released, it was the best browser on the planet.
I don't recall it being the best (fooey).
If it moves, compile it
loctrice wrote:
I don't recall it being the best (fooey).
Then you must be a young'un :) No FF or Webkit back then. It was either IE6 or Netscape... something. I don't even remember what that version of Netscape was, it was so forgettable. And, since I'm traipsing down memory lane here... IE 6 was released with Windows XP. Think about that. The days of IE6 vs Netscape seems ancient. But here I still sit on an XP machine.
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loctrice wrote:
I don't recall it being the best (fooey).
Then you must be a young'un :) No FF or Webkit back then. It was either IE6 or Netscape... something. I don't even remember what that version of Netscape was, it was so forgettable. And, since I'm traipsing down memory lane here... IE 6 was released with Windows XP. Think about that. The days of IE6 vs Netscape seems ancient. But here I still sit on an XP machine.
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Oh, I have used IE 10. It was the quickest way to download Chrome.
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loctrice wrote:
I think that puts you in the neutral category. You're not out telling the world how great IE is, that they should use it, or that they need to develop for it.
Pretty much: I am browser-agnostic: I really don't care. If Chrome came as standard I'd use that. Big fuss over nothing. Yes, it would be nice if they all worked the same way but that's like saying you wish you had a Corolla that worked exactly the same as an Accord.
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mark merrens wrote:
Yes, it would be nice if they all worked the same way but that's like saying you wish you had a Corolla that worked exactly the same as an Accord.
I'm not sure that analogy quite works, both cars are perfectly capable of following all traffic laws, but not all browsers are perfectly capable of following the HTML/JavaScript standards. (However, from playing around with the beta a bit, IE10 has added support for some of the more major features it was missing, one of particular interest to me was the JS file IO APIs.)
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And yet I've only ever used IE and think it's fine. It allows me to navigate and view the interweb and any sites that are so pretentious and up their won arse that they insist upon excluding IE are usually not worth visiting. It's just an application: why is there so much hysterical debate over it?
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
Same here. Tried Firefox for a while but it has its own set of oddities and I hated the frequency of updates. Almost rivals Adobe. And just can't be arsed trying ChromeSafarietc.
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mark merrens wrote:
Yes, it would be nice if they all worked the same way but that's like saying you wish you had a Corolla that worked exactly the same as an Accord.
I'm not sure that analogy quite works, both cars are perfectly capable of following all traffic laws, but not all browsers are perfectly capable of following the HTML/JavaScript standards. (However, from playing around with the beta a bit, IE10 has added support for some of the more major features it was missing, one of particular interest to me was the JS file IO APIs.)
It works perfectly. They both appear to do precisely the same job but each is slightly different under the hood. One may have built-in GPS, the other not, etc, etc.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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I saw a headline in the cp mail I got today. It's "Taking the internet explorer challenge" , and something about why IE deserves another look. I didn't read it, and I will probably never give IE another test/chance/look, etc. In fact, the only time I use IE is to see what didn't work in apps. I hear this all the time. "IE 10 isn't bad" , or "they really started cleaning it up since IE 9" or whatever the case may be. The fact is, that IE was junk for so long that I don't care. No other product I can think of would people say "Oh they sucked for so long, but now they are starting to catch up. Sure there are better products that have always stayed current, but IE is still trying". Who cares? They were junk for so long, and could be junk again at the next release.
If it moves, compile it
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I saw a headline in the cp mail I got today. It's "Taking the internet explorer challenge" , and something about why IE deserves another look. I didn't read it, and I will probably never give IE another test/chance/look, etc. In fact, the only time I use IE is to see what didn't work in apps. I hear this all the time. "IE 10 isn't bad" , or "they really started cleaning it up since IE 9" or whatever the case may be. The fact is, that IE was junk for so long that I don't care. No other product I can think of would people say "Oh they sucked for so long, but now they are starting to catch up. Sure there are better products that have always stayed current, but IE is still trying". Who cares? They were junk for so long, and could be junk again at the next release.
If it moves, compile it
Way to use the past to close off the future! Not that IE is the future, but that this is a general problem in the technology field. We tend to impose our human frailties on bits and bytes. We either applaud or shun based on the inequalities of the past. How many great technologies have been shuttered because we as a community were being loyalists? Software is exactly what it is: software. It has no past. It's honest and speaks for itself. If it's useful, use it. If not, then don't. But you can't pre-judge it based on conjecture and past bugs/business practices/etc. We close off possibilities when we close our minds.
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In the development world, IE does not seems to have a good reputation. But it has been the most popular browser in the market and still is.
TOMZ_KV
Depends on who is the target market for your app. But I agree, most users using business provided computers could not be bothered to install a different browser. Hence, the reason why we have to support it. Developing for IE is always a pain in the arse; but developing for IE 9 + is a lot easier than developing for the versions prior to IE 9. So I give IE 10 a thumbs up for trying to follow standards.
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Depends on who is the target market for your app. But I agree, most users using business provided computers could not be bothered to install a different browser. Hence, the reason why we have to support it. Developing for IE is always a pain in the arse; but developing for IE 9 + is a lot easier than developing for the versions prior to IE 9. So I give IE 10 a thumbs up for trying to follow standards.
Agree. IE tried to do more for users. It might provide a good user experience for web surfers but imposed difficulties on developers. IE 10 could be a good step forward. Unfortunately, I had to uninstall it because one of my commercial tools did not work properly with it.
TOMZ_KV
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meh. Apple products sucked for the longest time, and they were on the verge of going the way of the Dodo. Then they came out with the first iThing, and now everyone loves them. Companies are capable of turning things around. Haven't tested it myself, but apparently IE10 has JS performance benchmarks scores second only to Chrome. Don't recall where I read it, but, if true, it wouldn't surprise me in the least. Remember, IE6 didn't get the penetration it did because it was a crappy product. When it was released, it was the best browser on the planet.
It got the penetration because it was bundled with the OS. Netscape/Mozilla were far better than IE6. I previously had to use Selenium to do automated web site testing and nothing ran as slow as IE 6. Firefox 3.6 was 5 times faster and IE 7 was at least double the speed. Mike
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I saw a headline in the cp mail I got today. It's "Taking the internet explorer challenge" , and something about why IE deserves another look. I didn't read it, and I will probably never give IE another test/chance/look, etc. In fact, the only time I use IE is to see what didn't work in apps. I hear this all the time. "IE 10 isn't bad" , or "they really started cleaning it up since IE 9" or whatever the case may be. The fact is, that IE was junk for so long that I don't care. No other product I can think of would people say "Oh they sucked for so long, but now they are starting to catch up. Sure there are better products that have always stayed current, but IE is still trying". Who cares? They were junk for so long, and could be junk again at the next release.
If it moves, compile it
Internet Explorer has started to get developer friendly since IE 7, back there, there was a Developer toolbar that enabled debugging pages modifying things on the fly and so on. Since IE 9 they started to get more standard compliant, so I use it as my main development browser, and as my main browser in general. The majority of the bad reputation of Internet Explorer came when IE 6 wasn't updated for years, while other better and fast moving players emerged (Firefox mainly), and this created a maintenance nightmare because Firefox and others were pushing the edge while IE was far from it and required a lot of hacking to get pixel perfect pages on it and other browsers. Nowadays, IE is on par with other browsers, so I think it deserves another try.
CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...
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In the development world, IE does not seems to have a good reputation. But it has been the most popular browser in the market and still is.
TOMZ_KV
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Way to use the past to close off the future! Not that IE is the future, but that this is a general problem in the technology field. We tend to impose our human frailties on bits and bytes. We either applaud or shun based on the inequalities of the past. How many great technologies have been shuttered because we as a community were being loyalists? Software is exactly what it is: software. It has no past. It's honest and speaks for itself. If it's useful, use it. If not, then don't. But you can't pre-judge it based on conjecture and past bugs/business practices/etc. We close off possibilities when we close our minds.
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Internet Explorer has started to get developer friendly since IE 7, back there, there was a Developer toolbar that enabled debugging pages modifying things on the fly and so on. Since IE 9 they started to get more standard compliant, so I use it as my main development browser, and as my main browser in general. The majority of the bad reputation of Internet Explorer came when IE 6 wasn't updated for years, while other better and fast moving players emerged (Firefox mainly), and this created a maintenance nightmare because Firefox and others were pushing the edge while IE was far from it and required a lot of hacking to get pixel perfect pages on it and other browsers. Nowadays, IE is on par with other browsers, so I think it deserves another try.
CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...
I just don't think that is true. Dev in firefox and chrome, and then go back and figure out what is broken in IE. It's still backwards, broken, junk. Because it's finally starting to get around to catching up, doesn't make me think that it is going to stay current after whatever number this one is. They'll stick their head back in the sand again later, even if this new version was half of a good thing
If it moves, compile it