Internet Explorer Buzz
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Oh, I have used IE 10. It was the quickest way to download Chrome.
I was brought up to respect my elders. I don't respect many people nowadays.
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loctrice wrote:
I think that puts you in the neutral category. You're not out telling the world how great IE is, that they should use it, or that they need to develop for it.
Pretty much: I am browser-agnostic: I really don't care. If Chrome came as standard I'd use that. Big fuss over nothing. Yes, it would be nice if they all worked the same way but that's like saying you wish you had a Corolla that worked exactly the same as an Accord.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
mark merrens wrote:
Yes, it would be nice if they all worked the same way but that's like saying you wish you had a Corolla that worked exactly the same as an Accord.
I'm not sure that analogy quite works, both cars are perfectly capable of following all traffic laws, but not all browsers are perfectly capable of following the HTML/JavaScript standards. (However, from playing around with the beta a bit, IE10 has added support for some of the more major features it was missing, one of particular interest to me was the JS file IO APIs.)
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And yet I've only ever used IE and think it's fine. It allows me to navigate and view the interweb and any sites that are so pretentious and up their won arse that they insist upon excluding IE are usually not worth visiting. It's just an application: why is there so much hysterical debate over it?
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
Same here. Tried Firefox for a while but it has its own set of oddities and I hated the frequency of updates. Almost rivals Adobe. And just can't be arsed trying ChromeSafarietc.
If your neighbours don't listen to The Ramones, turn it up real loud so they can. “We didn't have a positive song until we wrote 'Now I Wanna Sniff Some Glue!'” ― Dee Dee Ramone "The Democrats want my guns and the Republicans want my porno mags and I ain't giving up either" - Joey Ramone
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mark merrens wrote:
Yes, it would be nice if they all worked the same way but that's like saying you wish you had a Corolla that worked exactly the same as an Accord.
I'm not sure that analogy quite works, both cars are perfectly capable of following all traffic laws, but not all browsers are perfectly capable of following the HTML/JavaScript standards. (However, from playing around with the beta a bit, IE10 has added support for some of the more major features it was missing, one of particular interest to me was the JS file IO APIs.)
It works perfectly. They both appear to do precisely the same job but each is slightly different under the hood. One may have built-in GPS, the other not, etc, etc.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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I saw a headline in the cp mail I got today. It's "Taking the internet explorer challenge" , and something about why IE deserves another look. I didn't read it, and I will probably never give IE another test/chance/look, etc. In fact, the only time I use IE is to see what didn't work in apps. I hear this all the time. "IE 10 isn't bad" , or "they really started cleaning it up since IE 9" or whatever the case may be. The fact is, that IE was junk for so long that I don't care. No other product I can think of would people say "Oh they sucked for so long, but now they are starting to catch up. Sure there are better products that have always stayed current, but IE is still trying". Who cares? They were junk for so long, and could be junk again at the next release.
If it moves, compile it
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I saw a headline in the cp mail I got today. It's "Taking the internet explorer challenge" , and something about why IE deserves another look. I didn't read it, and I will probably never give IE another test/chance/look, etc. In fact, the only time I use IE is to see what didn't work in apps. I hear this all the time. "IE 10 isn't bad" , or "they really started cleaning it up since IE 9" or whatever the case may be. The fact is, that IE was junk for so long that I don't care. No other product I can think of would people say "Oh they sucked for so long, but now they are starting to catch up. Sure there are better products that have always stayed current, but IE is still trying". Who cares? They were junk for so long, and could be junk again at the next release.
If it moves, compile it
Way to use the past to close off the future! Not that IE is the future, but that this is a general problem in the technology field. We tend to impose our human frailties on bits and bytes. We either applaud or shun based on the inequalities of the past. How many great technologies have been shuttered because we as a community were being loyalists? Software is exactly what it is: software. It has no past. It's honest and speaks for itself. If it's useful, use it. If not, then don't. But you can't pre-judge it based on conjecture and past bugs/business practices/etc. We close off possibilities when we close our minds.
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In the development world, IE does not seems to have a good reputation. But it has been the most popular browser in the market and still is.
TOMZ_KV
Depends on who is the target market for your app. But I agree, most users using business provided computers could not be bothered to install a different browser. Hence, the reason why we have to support it. Developing for IE is always a pain in the arse; but developing for IE 9 + is a lot easier than developing for the versions prior to IE 9. So I give IE 10 a thumbs up for trying to follow standards.
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Depends on who is the target market for your app. But I agree, most users using business provided computers could not be bothered to install a different browser. Hence, the reason why we have to support it. Developing for IE is always a pain in the arse; but developing for IE 9 + is a lot easier than developing for the versions prior to IE 9. So I give IE 10 a thumbs up for trying to follow standards.
Agree. IE tried to do more for users. It might provide a good user experience for web surfers but imposed difficulties on developers. IE 10 could be a good step forward. Unfortunately, I had to uninstall it because one of my commercial tools did not work properly with it.
TOMZ_KV
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meh. Apple products sucked for the longest time, and they were on the verge of going the way of the Dodo. Then they came out with the first iThing, and now everyone loves them. Companies are capable of turning things around. Haven't tested it myself, but apparently IE10 has JS performance benchmarks scores second only to Chrome. Don't recall where I read it, but, if true, it wouldn't surprise me in the least. Remember, IE6 didn't get the penetration it did because it was a crappy product. When it was released, it was the best browser on the planet.
It got the penetration because it was bundled with the OS. Netscape/Mozilla were far better than IE6. I previously had to use Selenium to do automated web site testing and nothing ran as slow as IE 6. Firefox 3.6 was 5 times faster and IE 7 was at least double the speed. Mike
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I saw a headline in the cp mail I got today. It's "Taking the internet explorer challenge" , and something about why IE deserves another look. I didn't read it, and I will probably never give IE another test/chance/look, etc. In fact, the only time I use IE is to see what didn't work in apps. I hear this all the time. "IE 10 isn't bad" , or "they really started cleaning it up since IE 9" or whatever the case may be. The fact is, that IE was junk for so long that I don't care. No other product I can think of would people say "Oh they sucked for so long, but now they are starting to catch up. Sure there are better products that have always stayed current, but IE is still trying". Who cares? They were junk for so long, and could be junk again at the next release.
If it moves, compile it
Internet Explorer has started to get developer friendly since IE 7, back there, there was a Developer toolbar that enabled debugging pages modifying things on the fly and so on. Since IE 9 they started to get more standard compliant, so I use it as my main development browser, and as my main browser in general. The majority of the bad reputation of Internet Explorer came when IE 6 wasn't updated for years, while other better and fast moving players emerged (Firefox mainly), and this created a maintenance nightmare because Firefox and others were pushing the edge while IE was far from it and required a lot of hacking to get pixel perfect pages on it and other browsers. Nowadays, IE is on par with other browsers, so I think it deserves another try.
CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...
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In the development world, IE does not seems to have a good reputation. But it has been the most popular browser in the market and still is.
TOMZ_KV
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Way to use the past to close off the future! Not that IE is the future, but that this is a general problem in the technology field. We tend to impose our human frailties on bits and bytes. We either applaud or shun based on the inequalities of the past. How many great technologies have been shuttered because we as a community were being loyalists? Software is exactly what it is: software. It has no past. It's honest and speaks for itself. If it's useful, use it. If not, then don't. But you can't pre-judge it based on conjecture and past bugs/business practices/etc. We close off possibilities when we close our minds.
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Internet Explorer has started to get developer friendly since IE 7, back there, there was a Developer toolbar that enabled debugging pages modifying things on the fly and so on. Since IE 9 they started to get more standard compliant, so I use it as my main development browser, and as my main browser in general. The majority of the bad reputation of Internet Explorer came when IE 6 wasn't updated for years, while other better and fast moving players emerged (Firefox mainly), and this created a maintenance nightmare because Firefox and others were pushing the edge while IE was far from it and required a lot of hacking to get pixel perfect pages on it and other browsers. Nowadays, IE is on par with other browsers, so I think it deserves another try.
CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...
I just don't think that is true. Dev in firefox and chrome, and then go back and figure out what is broken in IE. It's still backwards, broken, junk. Because it's finally starting to get around to catching up, doesn't make me think that it is going to stay current after whatever number this one is. They'll stick their head back in the sand again later, even if this new version was half of a good thing
If it moves, compile it
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I just don't think that is true. Dev in firefox and chrome, and then go back and figure out what is broken in IE. It's still backwards, broken, junk. Because it's finally starting to get around to catching up, doesn't make me think that it is going to stay current after whatever number this one is. They'll stick their head back in the sand again later, even if this new version was half of a good thing
If it moves, compile it
I have done that, and I don't like developing on Firefox or Chrome, the only advantage that these two have over IE (for developers) is that you can add extensions to personalize your development experience, but I hardly call this an advantage specially with Firefox where you have to download an extension to be able to debug your work.
CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...
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I disagree. From a development perspective, targeting IE is such a nightmare that it trumps all of my concerns except for the horror that is VB6. From a user perspective, you are right I really don't care but then users don't see the costs required to support their flavor.
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That's exactly what IE10 has fixed. They are not their own target anymore. They actually have gone so far in IE11 to prevent this targeting that in their current beta release the user-agent string is formed in such a way to make old hacks think it's firefox.
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dude, w3schools' stats only take into account people who visit their site. guess who visits most? devs. your second link is popularity of chrome on windows and is pretty random. try this: http://marketshare.hitslink.com/[^]