The cost of software
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Pretty much. I got €100 in the first year, most of it from the first two months. Once the app disappears from the "new and fancy"-list, no one cares about it anymore. (this was on Windows Phone btw, not a very big platform) Unless it goes viral, which it won't. That's like winning the lottery.
And I'm guessing that 100 Euros is what you make in just a few hours in your real job. That's why I wonder about the wisdom of training people to pay us next to nothing for apps that have significant value.
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
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After spending a few hundred bucks on an iPad Mini, I went through the process of setting everything up. Hadn't used Instapaper and wanted to give it a try so I set up an account on their website and then went to download the iPad app. At that point, I hesitated because of the cost. It was 4 dollars. Really. After a brief moment I realized how stupid that was and bought the app. It's nice getting stuff for free or on the cheap but this really bugs me. These days, software is supposed to be free and if you actually have to pay for it, gosh, it really shouldn't cost more than 99 cents or it's way overpriced. As a professional software developer, I can't imagine why someone would go to all the trouble of writing professional quality software and then selling it for a dollar. Or even 4. This is why I don't write mobile apps on the side. I mean, seriously, try getting a plumber out to your house for 4 dollars. [edit] Since this appears to be the common thinking... Guys - you're not going to sell a million copies. You'll be lucky to sell 100. Lots of studies on this and the fallacy of Gold Rush thinking. And so the question - who are these people who are willing to work so cheaply, and are they free this weekend to mow my lawn? :-D [/edit]
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
Christopher Duncan wrote:
These days, software is supposed to be free
really? are you sure about that? :)
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I don't know if I am worth more but I definitely charge more than that, however, the risk is what is important. Would you risk $10,000 for a chance at 100,000k? Probably, if you thought it was more than random. They way I considered it is: 100 is a given because we all have family and friends and a decent app would crest 1000 on word of mouth. So the real risk if you did it right would be $9k. Print a few t-shirts give your apps to magazines to review. Good reviews = downloads. 10,000 isn't that hard. Now, 100k, ok hard, but that is more than breaking even ... unless you are talking about my bill rate : )
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
And that's the thing. I think chances of success are well below random. Otherwise, you and I would both be cranking them out as fast as we could!
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
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After spending a few hundred bucks on an iPad Mini, I went through the process of setting everything up. Hadn't used Instapaper and wanted to give it a try so I set up an account on their website and then went to download the iPad app. At that point, I hesitated because of the cost. It was 4 dollars. Really. After a brief moment I realized how stupid that was and bought the app. It's nice getting stuff for free or on the cheap but this really bugs me. These days, software is supposed to be free and if you actually have to pay for it, gosh, it really shouldn't cost more than 99 cents or it's way overpriced. As a professional software developer, I can't imagine why someone would go to all the trouble of writing professional quality software and then selling it for a dollar. Or even 4. This is why I don't write mobile apps on the side. I mean, seriously, try getting a plumber out to your house for 4 dollars. [edit] Since this appears to be the common thinking... Guys - you're not going to sell a million copies. You'll be lucky to sell 100. Lots of studies on this and the fallacy of Gold Rush thinking. And so the question - who are these people who are willing to work so cheaply, and are they free this weekend to mow my lawn? :-D [/edit]
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
Christopher Duncan wrote:
And so the question - who are these people who are willing to work so cheaply, and are they free this weekend to mow my lawn? :-D
Me... and only if there is free beer provided. I have a piece of software out there that is free and has had a good few downloads. I can count the number of people who have made a donation on one hand. I do it for the enjoyment and sense of accomplishment and what I learn along the way. For this reason I make a point of donating when I use software regularly.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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Well, at least you're not expecting to sell a million copies like everyone else. That said, in all but rare cases, even 10k sales of a paid app is massively unrealistic. 99 cents times 100 sales, something you might achieve, is less than most developers make before lunch. And you're going to spend way more than half a day on it.
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
It's worse than that for iPhone development: Apple takes a princely 30%, so you'll only see ~70 cents per download, as ever it is the people selling the tools that make the bucks, not the prospectors. Reminds me of the 80s, when the home computer (Spectrum/C63 era) market was flooded with games and it drove the prices down. I did hear a theory that development would split into two: the "hard" comp sci stuff which will be paid well, and low-paid low-skilled work where people cobble stuff together from simple to use frameworks. The apps store thing might be a sign that this theory has legs?
“Education is not the piling on of learning, information, data, facts, skills, or abilities - that's training or instruction - but is rather making visible what is hidden as a seed”
“One of the greatest problems of our time is that many are schooled but few are educated”Sir Thomas More (1478 – 1535)
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
These days, software is supposed to be free
really? are you sure about that? :)
Popular culture? Yes. Without question. My own personal convictions? Not only no, but hell no! :-D
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
And so the question - who are these people who are willing to work so cheaply, and are they free this weekend to mow my lawn? :-D
Me... and only if there is free beer provided. I have a piece of software out there that is free and has had a good few downloads. I can count the number of people who have made a donation on one hand. I do it for the enjoyment and sense of accomplishment and what I learn along the way. For this reason I make a point of donating when I use software regularly.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
I can certainly understand doing stuff for a hobby. I've written plenty of stuff for my own use. My primary concern is the devaluation of our skill set over time. And beer ain't free. ;P
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
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Looks interesting. I believe I'll save it for later with my $4 Instapaper app. :-D
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
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It's worse than that for iPhone development: Apple takes a princely 30%, so you'll only see ~70 cents per download, as ever it is the people selling the tools that make the bucks, not the prospectors. Reminds me of the 80s, when the home computer (Spectrum/C63 era) market was flooded with games and it drove the prices down. I did hear a theory that development would split into two: the "hard" comp sci stuff which will be paid well, and low-paid low-skilled work where people cobble stuff together from simple to use frameworks. The apps store thing might be a sign that this theory has legs?
“Education is not the piling on of learning, information, data, facts, skills, or abilities - that's training or instruction - but is rather making visible what is hidden as a seed”
“One of the greatest problems of our time is that many are schooled but few are educated”Sir Thomas More (1478 – 1535)
I'm not sure it'll even be two tier over time. I've said many times in the past that software is the new factory work. I believe that's where the industry is heading. Pardon me while I go tune my guitars...
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
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Yeah, everyone's fixated on the "sell it a million times" thing. Guys, seriously, you have a better chance of winning the lottery than you do selling a million copies of a mobile app.
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
Christopher Duncan wrote:
you have a better chance of winning the lottery
But it doesn't stop 'em for trying. Some will succeed. The remainder would be better off sucking seeds. :)
If there is one thing more dangerous than getting between a bear and her cubs it's getting between my wife and her chocolate.
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
you have a better chance of winning the lottery
But it doesn't stop 'em for trying. Some will succeed. The remainder would be better off sucking seeds. :)
If there is one thing more dangerous than getting between a bear and her cubs it's getting between my wife and her chocolate.
PHS241 wrote:
The remainder would be better off sucking seeds. :)
That's now legal in Washington and Colorado. :-D
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
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I can certainly understand doing stuff for a hobby. I've written plenty of stuff for my own use. My primary concern is the devaluation of our skill set over time. And beer ain't free. ;P
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
Christopher Duncan wrote:
My primary concern is the devaluation of our skill set over time.
I definitely second that as in my work not only do I need to be g creative and good coder but I need to be able to explain abstractions to others as well as understand what they are trying to get across. I read something recently that said that software developers were paid way too much. What the nonce who wrote this article did not realise is that people like me have been living software development for the past twenty + years, it's not a job it really becomes part of your life and the hours you spend outside of 'work' working need to be appreciated. I think a good software developer's skill set is much more than coding.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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And I'm guessing that 100 Euros is what you make in just a few hours in your real job. That's why I wonder about the wisdom of training people to pay us next to nothing for apps that have significant value.
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
I didn't mind in this case, it was just a simple puzzle game that I made for fun - any money was just a bonus. Anyway, while you certainly have a point, I think it's much too late now. Low prices are expected now, there's not much anyone can do about it.
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You bring up a good point. Advertising is the other leg of revenue in mobile. Anyone making any money from advertising on mobile apps? Would be interested in what the numbers are in terms of revenue versus downloads. From what I've read it's still miniscule income for all but the lucky few.
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
I make around £30 a month on advertising on my non-mobile TeboCam app website. Barely enough for beer... I have suspicions that google may not be entirely honest on click rate :^)
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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I make around £30 a month on advertising on my non-mobile TeboCam app website. Barely enough for beer... I have suspicions that google may not be entirely honest on click rate :^)
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
More likely it just is what it is. I mean, how many ads do you click on?
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
My primary concern is the devaluation of our skill set over time.
I definitely second that as in my work not only do I need to be g creative and good coder but I need to be able to explain abstractions to others as well as understand what they are trying to get across. I read something recently that said that software developers were paid way too much. What the nonce who wrote this article did not realise is that people like me have been living software development for the past twenty + years, it's not a job it really becomes part of your life and the hours you spend outside of 'work' working need to be appreciated. I think a good software developer's skill set is much more than coding.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
They were probably just spouting more of the "I don't want to pay so it shouldn't cost that much" logic. If you think programming isn't worth much money, just write all your software yourself and see how you feel about it then. :)
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
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After spending a few hundred bucks on an iPad Mini, I went through the process of setting everything up. Hadn't used Instapaper and wanted to give it a try so I set up an account on their website and then went to download the iPad app. At that point, I hesitated because of the cost. It was 4 dollars. Really. After a brief moment I realized how stupid that was and bought the app. It's nice getting stuff for free or on the cheap but this really bugs me. These days, software is supposed to be free and if you actually have to pay for it, gosh, it really shouldn't cost more than 99 cents or it's way overpriced. As a professional software developer, I can't imagine why someone would go to all the trouble of writing professional quality software and then selling it for a dollar. Or even 4. This is why I don't write mobile apps on the side. I mean, seriously, try getting a plumber out to your house for 4 dollars. [edit] Since this appears to be the common thinking... Guys - you're not going to sell a million copies. You'll be lucky to sell 100. Lots of studies on this and the fallacy of Gold Rush thinking. And so the question - who are these people who are willing to work so cheaply, and are they free this weekend to mow my lawn? :-D [/edit]
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
I thought you were being sarcastic. Instead, you set up a straw man, knock him down and crow about how smart you are. How much do you make off your books? You're not going to sell a million, so why bother? This is bullshit cynical thinking. Whoever wrote the app you bought is now $3 richer. If it's a good app, given the number of iPads out there, if they sell a thousand that's not chump change. It may make the difference between paying rent or not for this developer. Or paying tuition. If they develop ten such apps, they're now making a living and, more importantly, gaining valuable technical and business experience. So, they may not rich off this app, or any they write on their own, it could lead to a job writing business apps in a vertical market. No pipe dream; I know a few guys who have done this (I tried to hire one I'd worked with.) I remember the shareware days of the 80s and early 90s. A few people got rich, many more made enough to pay for their computer, if that, and even more than that learned how to program, which led to well paying jobs. A brother and sister of mine are both writers. They've been published but they were paid less than your app writer. BUT THEY WERE PUBLISHED which is a hell of a lot more than most people can say. In the 90s I started my own company making software and media content. My business partner and I were under no illusions we'd sell millions--we aimed at a measly 10,000. In the end we sold 2500, which paid for about a third our actual costs. Yet, we both would do it tomorrow in heartbeat. We had a blast and did something we loved. Plus, we did sell software, we did actually make a video that people bought and in the end, my company ended up the green--however miniscule that green was--and I shut it down without bankruptcy. That's a helluva lot more than a lot of people can say.
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More likely it just is what it is. I mean, how many ads do you click on?
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
Today ,so far, I have had 11 advert clicks which has earned me £0.48 That might give you some idea of how many clicks you need. Also google only allow you to have 3 adverts per page, so you have to place them quite carefully. I reckon most of the clicks come from the download page which usually contains an add with a big green download button on it :-\
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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Today ,so far, I have had 11 advert clicks which has earned me £0.48 That might give you some idea of how many clicks you need. Also google only allow you to have 3 adverts per page, so you have to place them quite carefully. I reckon most of the clicks come from the download page which usually contains an add with a big green download button on it :-\
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
GuyThiebaut wrote:
which usually contains an add with a big green download button on it :->
Oh, you're one of those guys... :rolleyes: So you're talking around .04 per click. Yeah, have to be a whole lotta clicking goin' on to make any money like that.
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
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Yeah, everyone's fixated on the "sell it a million times" thing. Guys, seriously, you have a better chance of winning the lottery than you do selling a million copies of a mobile app.
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
While I take your point, at least trying to sel a million copies is a game of skill and not pure chance!
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