This months WDM
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Hi Michael. Have I told you to get stuffed lately ? :) So how's life in Sydney ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003Christian Graus wrote: Hi Michael. Have I told you to get stuffed lately ? :) NO, and oh how I have missed it. :-D Christian Graus wrote: So how's life in Sydney ? Wouldn't know. I'm in Sydney but not having a life. Income is not covering expenses (car lease, board, bills, MC) and stress is just a tad over extreme at the moment. Extra work with consultancy is slow after the Christmas break, TAFE still hasn't got back to me about lecturing at night and my wife is still trying to get a job after 7 or 8 years without. How's sunny Tasmania? Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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Christian Graus wrote: Hi Michael. Have I told you to get stuffed lately ? :) NO, and oh how I have missed it. :-D Christian Graus wrote: So how's life in Sydney ? Wouldn't know. I'm in Sydney but not having a life. Income is not covering expenses (car lease, board, bills, MC) and stress is just a tad over extreme at the moment. Extra work with consultancy is slow after the Christmas break, TAFE still hasn't got back to me about lecturing at night and my wife is still trying to get a job after 7 or 8 years without. How's sunny Tasmania? Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
Michael Martin wrote: NO, and oh how I have missed it Well, get ready..... Michael Martin wrote: TAFE still hasn't got back to me about lecturing at night What are you going to lecture on ? I've often contemplated running an adult ed course, is that the sort of thing you mean ? Michael Martin wrote: my wife is still trying to get a job after 7 or 8 years without. That can be tough. Donna has managed it, she's actually full time now, and her trouble is more people want her than there are hours in the day. Michael Martin wrote: How's sunny Tasmania? Really busy. But I got my new guitar today, so life is looking good. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003 -
In WDM this month is an article on why we should use C# over C++ '95% of the time'. It's not on the website, but if you don't have the mag, the gist of it is that C++ is too hard. It's anti C++ example is that C++ did not always have a string class, and it's pro C# example is properties, which it says are essential for developing GUI's, and the existence of the standards committee, which it says is the reason that C++ does not have properties. He also says that Sun has committed suicide by litigating Microsoft out of access to Java. I'm just astounded. Has anyone else read this drivel ? Does anyone agree with him ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003Christian Graus wrote: In WDM this month is an article on why we should use C# over C++ '95% of the time'. I think you meant this article of "Visual Studio Magazine".. http://www.fawcette.com/vsm/2002_12/online/csharp_bwagner_12_16_02/default.asp[^] Christian Graus wrote: which it says is the reason that C++ does not have properties That's not quite true. Microsoft C++ compiler supports properties. Also, most of the advantages we get from C# have nothing to do with the language itself, but it is the .NET framework that lets us to write code productively.
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Christian Graus wrote: In WDM this month is an article on why we should use C# over C++ '95% of the time'. I think you meant this article of "Visual Studio Magazine".. http://www.fawcette.com/vsm/2002_12/online/csharp_bwagner_12_16_02/default.asp[^] Christian Graus wrote: which it says is the reason that C++ does not have properties That's not quite true. Microsoft C++ compiler supports properties. Also, most of the advantages we get from C# have nothing to do with the language itself, but it is the .NET framework that lets us to write code productively.
Fazlul Kabir wrote: I think you meant this article of "Visual Studio Magazine".. You think that do you ? Well, I'm afraid you're about as wrong as anyone can be, the flat earth society included. Fazlul Kabir wrote: That's not quite true. Microsoft C++ compiler supports properties. How ? Do you mean properties in COM components ? Fazlul Kabir wrote: Also, most of the advantages we get from C# have nothing to do with the language itself, but it is the .NET framework that lets us to write code productively. That's another question entirely. There is no doubt that while the .NET framework misses some stuff that C++ has in it's libraries, the reverse is also true. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003 -
Michael Martin wrote: NO, and oh how I have missed it Well, get ready..... Michael Martin wrote: TAFE still hasn't got back to me about lecturing at night What are you going to lecture on ? I've often contemplated running an adult ed course, is that the sort of thing you mean ? Michael Martin wrote: my wife is still trying to get a job after 7 or 8 years without. That can be tough. Donna has managed it, she's actually full time now, and her trouble is more people want her than there are hours in the day. Michael Martin wrote: How's sunny Tasmania? Really busy. But I got my new guitar today, so life is looking good. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003Christian Graus wrote: What are you going to lecture on ? I've often contemplated running an adult ed course, is that the sort of thing you mean ? TAFE here in Richmond has an IT department that runs Certificate and Diploma level courses. I would be lecturing some of them where my real world experience covers what is needed. It would look good on the resume, keep me closer to technology than my current job as well as possibly getting my enthusiasm for technoly going again. Also it pays $48.00 an hour so I wouldn't mind that either. Christian Graus wrote: That can be tough. Donna has managed it, she's actually full time now, and her trouble is more people want her than there are hours in the day. My wife is looking at a job that is 20 hours a week. This would fit in with my son's school and my daughters pre-school hours. The few days a week Bridget doesn't go to pre-school we have family and friends who could look after her. If she gets the job shes looking at we will be about $180 a week better off after tax and government benefits are removed. Not much but every little bit counts. Christian Graus wrote: Really busy. But I got my new guitar today, so life is looking good. I need to find something completely different to do but can't find anything at the moment. Couldn't do anything at home with everyone there to fuck it up. I would really love to get back to the gym, but need to have the money to do it. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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In WDM this month is an article on why we should use C# over C++ '95% of the time'. It's not on the website, but if you don't have the mag, the gist of it is that C++ is too hard. It's anti C++ example is that C++ did not always have a string class, and it's pro C# example is properties, which it says are essential for developing GUI's, and the existence of the standards committee, which it says is the reason that C++ does not have properties. He also says that Sun has committed suicide by litigating Microsoft out of access to Java. I'm just astounded. Has anyone else read this drivel ? Does anyone agree with him ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003The statements about the future of C++ are confusing at best. On one hand we have Nick Hodapp, Microsoft's C++ Product Manager, busting his ass to try and ensure C++ is on everyone's radar screen under the ambush of .NET marketing, and on the other we have the latest issue of MSDN writing off the massive C++ changes with a few words about WinForms support and ISO compliance. As far as I'm concerned VS.NET 2003 is all about C++, and from what I'm hearing the changes we'll get in VS.NET 2003 are only the beginning - but no one seems to want to listen. C# is certainly a lovely language to work with - far better than it's ugly brother VB.NET - but to say that C# should be used 95% of the time is a little misleading. For writing ASP.NET pages - sure - but for native or mixed mode coding C# isn't even an option. BTW - Check out this: The latest VS.NET T-shirt. cheers, Chris Maunder
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Fazlul Kabir wrote: I think you meant this article of "Visual Studio Magazine".. You think that do you ? Well, I'm afraid you're about as wrong as anyone can be, the flat earth society included. Fazlul Kabir wrote: That's not quite true. Microsoft C++ compiler supports properties. How ? Do you mean properties in COM components ? Fazlul Kabir wrote: Also, most of the advantages we get from C# have nothing to do with the language itself, but it is the .NET framework that lets us to write code productively. That's another question entirely. There is no doubt that while the .NET framework misses some stuff that C++ has in it's libraries, the reverse is also true. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003Christian Graus wrote: You think that do you ? Well, I'm afraid you're about as wrong as anyone can be, the flat earth society included. LOL. Honestly, I didn't see the WDM article, but I'd like to read it. I guess both articles have some interesting coincidence, given their similar title and time of publication. Sorry for the confusion. Christian Graus wrote: How ? Do you mean properties in COM components ? No, through Microsoft C++ compiler's "property" keyword. The declaration works like this:
__declspec(property(get=GetCaption,put=SetCaption)) CString Caption; CString GetCaption(); void SetCaption(CString );Once declared and implemented, a user can "get" or "set" the property just like .NET's property:CString strProperty = myObj.Caption; myObj.Caption = "some name";// Fazlul -
The statements about the future of C++ are confusing at best. On one hand we have Nick Hodapp, Microsoft's C++ Product Manager, busting his ass to try and ensure C++ is on everyone's radar screen under the ambush of .NET marketing, and on the other we have the latest issue of MSDN writing off the massive C++ changes with a few words about WinForms support and ISO compliance. As far as I'm concerned VS.NET 2003 is all about C++, and from what I'm hearing the changes we'll get in VS.NET 2003 are only the beginning - but no one seems to want to listen. C# is certainly a lovely language to work with - far better than it's ugly brother VB.NET - but to say that C# should be used 95% of the time is a little misleading. For writing ASP.NET pages - sure - but for native or mixed mode coding C# isn't even an option. BTW - Check out this: The latest VS.NET T-shirt. cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote: but to say that C# should be used 95% of the time is a little misleading. For writing ASP.NET pages - sure - but for native or mixed mode coding C# isn't even an option. I second that wholeheartedly. // Fazlul
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The statements about the future of C++ are confusing at best. On one hand we have Nick Hodapp, Microsoft's C++ Product Manager, busting his ass to try and ensure C++ is on everyone's radar screen under the ambush of .NET marketing, and on the other we have the latest issue of MSDN writing off the massive C++ changes with a few words about WinForms support and ISO compliance. As far as I'm concerned VS.NET 2003 is all about C++, and from what I'm hearing the changes we'll get in VS.NET 2003 are only the beginning - but no one seems to want to listen. C# is certainly a lovely language to work with - far better than it's ugly brother VB.NET - but to say that C# should be used 95% of the time is a little misleading. For writing ASP.NET pages - sure - but for native or mixed mode coding C# isn't even an option. BTW - Check out this: The latest VS.NET T-shirt. cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote: on the other we have the latest issue of MSDN writing off the massive C++ changes with a few words about WinForms support and ISO compliance But MSDN mag has been run by morons and C# marketing weenies for quite some time. I'm not surprised. Chris Maunder wrote: C# is certainly a lovely language to work with Agreed. Chris Maunder wrote: but for native or mixed mode coding C# isn't even an option. Agreed there also. The guy was trying to pimp his C# book as far as I can see, I can't see why else anyone would propogate such drivel. His comments about C++ indicate to me that he's never really learned how to use it. Chris Maunder wrote: BTW - Check out this: The latest VS.NET T-shirt. That is SO, SO cool. How do I go about aquiring one ? ( seriously, can I buy one from anywhere ? ) Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003 -
Terry Denham wrote: Man have you been busy writing stuff in C#. *grin* The image processing articles were my first C# code. I admit to being selfish, my magazine and CP articles are all written to give me projects to help me learn stuff. Now that I use C# at work, I am using J2EE at home. I do miss C++, but for the time being my skill level is high enough that I'm better off building skills elsewhere. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003Christian Graus wrote: I am using J2EE at home :omg: We all need an explanation, this is getting out of control. regards Kannan :-)
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The statements about the future of C++ are confusing at best. On one hand we have Nick Hodapp, Microsoft's C++ Product Manager, busting his ass to try and ensure C++ is on everyone's radar screen under the ambush of .NET marketing, and on the other we have the latest issue of MSDN writing off the massive C++ changes with a few words about WinForms support and ISO compliance. As far as I'm concerned VS.NET 2003 is all about C++, and from what I'm hearing the changes we'll get in VS.NET 2003 are only the beginning - but no one seems to want to listen. C# is certainly a lovely language to work with - far better than it's ugly brother VB.NET - but to say that C# should be used 95% of the time is a little misleading. For writing ASP.NET pages - sure - but for native or mixed mode coding C# isn't even an option. BTW - Check out this: The latest VS.NET T-shirt. cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote: Check out this: The latest VS.NET T-shirt. Cool :-), Where can I get that one, Is it available through CP. Cheers, Kannan
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Chris Maunder wrote: on the other we have the latest issue of MSDN writing off the massive C++ changes with a few words about WinForms support and ISO compliance But MSDN mag has been run by morons and C# marketing weenies for quite some time. I'm not surprised. Chris Maunder wrote: C# is certainly a lovely language to work with Agreed. Chris Maunder wrote: but for native or mixed mode coding C# isn't even an option. Agreed there also. The guy was trying to pimp his C# book as far as I can see, I can't see why else anyone would propogate such drivel. His comments about C++ indicate to me that he's never really learned how to use it. Chris Maunder wrote: BTW - Check out this: The latest VS.NET T-shirt. That is SO, SO cool. How do I go about aquiring one ? ( seriously, can I buy one from anywhere ? ) Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003Christian Graus wrote: BTW - Check out this: The latest VS.NET T-shirt. That is SO, SO cool. How do I go about aquiring one ? ( seriously, can I buy one from anywhere ? ) Yes, the wooden floor t-shirt rocks. :cool:
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The statements about the future of C++ are confusing at best. On one hand we have Nick Hodapp, Microsoft's C++ Product Manager, busting his ass to try and ensure C++ is on everyone's radar screen under the ambush of .NET marketing, and on the other we have the latest issue of MSDN writing off the massive C++ changes with a few words about WinForms support and ISO compliance. As far as I'm concerned VS.NET 2003 is all about C++, and from what I'm hearing the changes we'll get in VS.NET 2003 are only the beginning - but no one seems to want to listen. C# is certainly a lovely language to work with - far better than it's ugly brother VB.NET - but to say that C# should be used 95% of the time is a little misleading. For writing ASP.NET pages - sure - but for native or mixed mode coding C# isn't even an option. BTW - Check out this: The latest VS.NET T-shirt. cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote: BTW - Check out this: The latest VS.NET T-shirt. I like it! I want need one of those :)
Build a man a fire, and he will be warm for a day
Light a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life! -
Microsoft signed a contract, and broke it for no other reason than to hurt Java's cross platform abilities. Sun sued. So they should have. Java has a lively existence outside of the Windows world, and will continue to make Sun money regardless of what happens to them and Microsoft. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003Christian Graus wrote: will continue to make Sun money regardless of what happens to them and Microsoft I haven't heard the Java SDK (J2EE, ...) was not free anymore. Besides that, BEA and IBM have their own compliant Java VMs.
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The statements about the future of C++ are confusing at best. On one hand we have Nick Hodapp, Microsoft's C++ Product Manager, busting his ass to try and ensure C++ is on everyone's radar screen under the ambush of .NET marketing, and on the other we have the latest issue of MSDN writing off the massive C++ changes with a few words about WinForms support and ISO compliance. As far as I'm concerned VS.NET 2003 is all about C++, and from what I'm hearing the changes we'll get in VS.NET 2003 are only the beginning - but no one seems to want to listen. C# is certainly a lovely language to work with - far better than it's ugly brother VB.NET - but to say that C# should be used 95% of the time is a little misleading. For writing ASP.NET pages - sure - but for native or mixed mode coding C# isn't even an option. BTW - Check out this: The latest VS.NET T-shirt. cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote: but for native or mixed mode coding C# isn't even an option. If MS released a P/Invoke debugger, we wouldn't be like asses trying to figure out the internal marshaling mess. That said, business opportunities here.
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Nishant S wrote: I think he might be right regarding the Sun suicide thingie But Sun litigated because Microsoft broke their contract and changed the language. Had they let that happen, THAT would have been suicide. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003Christian Graus wrote: But Sun litigated because Microsoft broke their contract and changed the language. Had they let that happen, THAT would have been suicide. I thought it was because Microsoft decided to stop shipping *any* Java VM with Windows. Before that Sun, the idiots, got MS to sign a deal that said MS could only ship a sub-standard, 1 version old Java VM. Sun thought that it was a good idea because then Sun would not have to compete with a top MS Java VM and that people would all flock to the Sun Java VM for Windows. Or something like that, all rather confusing actually. Anyway now they are suing MS and trying to force them to include a top notch Java VM. Sounds all rather stupid of Sun. Sun down.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaAnna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: I don't know much about Artificial Intelligence, but I've seen a lot of Natural Stupidity in the corporate world...
