WTL/ATL or MFC for beginner programmer?
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Hi All, What would you recommend to a beginner windows programmer, with knowledge of C++? (WTL/ATL, MFC, WinAPI) Details I am trying to advise an individual on what language to use for programming windows, just as a hobby. The individual has C++ foundation, however, has no windows programming experience. I don't feel I have enough in-depth knowledge to provide a good answer, so I turn to the brainy geeks of CP ;P
R.Bischoff | C++ .NET, Kommst du mit?
I would recommend learning the Win32 API first, and then moving on to MFC. I believe knowing the API and how does it work helps you understand better what you're doing with MFC, and how it works under the hood. You could then extend it better or do things MFC does not support. -- LuisR ────────────── Luis Alonso Ramos Chihuahua, Mexico www.luisalonsoramos.com "Do not worry about your difficulties in mathematics, I assure you that mine are greater." -- Albert Einstein
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Hi All, What would you recommend to a beginner windows programmer, with knowledge of C++? (WTL/ATL, MFC, WinAPI) Details I am trying to advise an individual on what language to use for programming windows, just as a hobby. The individual has C++ foundation, however, has no windows programming experience. I don't feel I have enough in-depth knowledge to provide a good answer, so I turn to the brainy geeks of CP ;P
R.Bischoff | C++ .NET, Kommst du mit?
Since he is just a hobby prgrammer I would suggest MFC. There is a lot of documentation, and sample programs out there, and you can do some very basic stuff quickly. The Win32 API is good if he ever plans on going anywhere with windows and programming. I love ATL and WTL, I also love C++ templates. I would only suggest these if he seriously wanted to become a Windows developer. They are a little difficult to wrap your head around until you get the hang of templates, then I think it is easier than MFC, although there is not very much documentation for WTL.
Build a man a fire, and he will be warm for a day
Light a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life! -
Hi All, What would you recommend to a beginner windows programmer, with knowledge of C++? (WTL/ATL, MFC, WinAPI) Details I am trying to advise an individual on what language to use for programming windows, just as a hobby. The individual has C++ foundation, however, has no windows programming experience. I don't feel I have enough in-depth knowledge to provide a good answer, so I turn to the brainy geeks of CP ;P
R.Bischoff | C++ .NET, Kommst du mit?
Why not use the .NET framework with ManagedC++ ? ok, no UI builder, but for simple UI and projects it be ok. ( I never used WTL or ATL ) MFC will frustrate you more than anything else because it's only wrapper around WinAPI, and you will rapidly be in need to learn it, if you decide to try something out of the MFC guidelines; or do something different. Max. For success one must aquire one's self
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Why not use the .NET framework with ManagedC++ ? ok, no UI builder, but for simple UI and projects it be ok. ( I never used WTL or ATL ) MFC will frustrate you more than anything else because it's only wrapper around WinAPI, and you will rapidly be in need to learn it, if you decide to try something out of the MFC guidelines; or do something different. Max. For success one must aquire one's self
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I would recommend learning the Win32 API first, and then moving on to MFC. I believe knowing the API and how does it work helps you understand better what you're doing with MFC, and how it works under the hood. You could then extend it better or do things MFC does not support. -- LuisR ────────────── Luis Alonso Ramos Chihuahua, Mexico www.luisalonsoramos.com "Do not worry about your difficulties in mathematics, I assure you that mine are greater." -- Albert Einstein
I agree completely. And, in knowing the API first, you'll be able to naturally figure out MFC classes, methods, and properties because of the similarities involved. And, in doing so, you’ll gain invaluable knowledge - the reasons why MFC is the way it is. Of course, the downside is you could end up like me and stay an API purist. :~ Jeremy Falcon Imputek
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Hi All, What would you recommend to a beginner windows programmer, with knowledge of C++? (WTL/ATL, MFC, WinAPI) Details I am trying to advise an individual on what language to use for programming windows, just as a hobby. The individual has C++ foundation, however, has no windows programming experience. I don't feel I have enough in-depth knowledge to provide a good answer, so I turn to the brainy geeks of CP ;P
R.Bischoff | C++ .NET, Kommst du mit?
I recommend neither of those subjects. It's better go on with .NET and C# The Win32 API is old .. is not object oriented. It is deprecated .. even you can access it from .NET The MFC is a rich framework, but old as well. Even you can build great applications with it. ATL - based in templates - like STL, was great to build controls with small footprint, and to wrap COM. But COM is old .. now you have .NET WTL is a framework like MFC, but with the ATL philosophy. I recommend to stay only in .NET, and C#, as a new, more clean, less prone to error language than C++. This is also the Microsoft opinion. Josep L Colom
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I recommend neither of those subjects. It's better go on with .NET and C# The Win32 API is old .. is not object oriented. It is deprecated .. even you can access it from .NET The MFC is a rich framework, but old as well. Even you can build great applications with it. ATL - based in templates - like STL, was great to build controls with small footprint, and to wrap COM. But COM is old .. now you have .NET WTL is a framework like MFC, but with the ATL philosophy. I recommend to stay only in .NET, and C#, as a new, more clean, less prone to error language than C++. This is also the Microsoft opinion. Josep L Colom
I would agree. C# is probably his best bet. The only problem is he's stuck with .net and computers which have the .net framework installed before any of the applications he creates can run. Also .net programs are slow in executing. They don't have the snappy response compared to MFC. The best book I've seen so far for learning VC# is "Developing C# Windows Software - A Windows Forms Tutorial" Wrox. Art
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I agree completely. And, in knowing the API first, you'll be able to naturally figure out MFC classes, methods, and properties because of the similarities involved. And, in doing so, you’ll gain invaluable knowledge - the reasons why MFC is the way it is. Of course, the downside is you could end up like me and stay an API purist. :~ Jeremy Falcon Imputek
Jeremy Falcon wrote: Of course, the downside is you could end up like me and stay an API purist. That is not that bad. It's only too time-consuming for large apps. But I like the API better that MFC. But Windows Forms is much better!! -- LuisR ────────────── Luis Alonso Ramos Chihuahua, Mexico www.luisalonsoramos.com "Do not worry about your difficulties in mathematics, I assure you that mine are greater." -- Albert Einstein
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I recommend neither of those subjects. It's better go on with .NET and C# The Win32 API is old .. is not object oriented. It is deprecated .. even you can access it from .NET The MFC is a rich framework, but old as well. Even you can build great applications with it. ATL - based in templates - like STL, was great to build controls with small footprint, and to wrap COM. But COM is old .. now you have .NET WTL is a framework like MFC, but with the ATL philosophy. I recommend to stay only in .NET, and C#, as a new, more clean, less prone to error language than C++. This is also the Microsoft opinion. Josep L Colom
You speak some harsh words my friend: Josep L Colom wrote: The Win32 API is old .. is not object oriented. It is deprecated Josep L Colom wrote: But COM is old .. now you have .NET .NET without COM would not work. Neither would Windows without the Win32 API. Its like saying "TCP/IP is old, now we have Wireless Networks".
powerful binary resource reuse - another word for "no sources, you are stuck with a pain-in-the-a## COM component"
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You speak some harsh words my friend: Josep L Colom wrote: The Win32 API is old .. is not object oriented. It is deprecated Josep L Colom wrote: But COM is old .. now you have .NET .NET without COM would not work. Neither would Windows without the Win32 API. Its like saying "TCP/IP is old, now we have Wireless Networks".
powerful binary resource reuse - another word for "no sources, you are stuck with a pain-in-the-a## COM component"
Yes COM exists and even Win32API exists under NET. But NET sets new paradigms in sofware design that enhances the COM approach. But NET doesn't need to have COM under it to work. Think in the MONO project (NET porting in Linux platform). As software users I think the NET class libraries should be our low level 'API' (even actually under it we can see COM influences, Win32 API calls, X86 staements, pipeline ALU microinstructions or transistors).