Question: Language Barrier
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One of the biggest issues I've had on this site, and others, is with people who don't natively speak English. Some of them are very nice, and cool people. However, some of them, like to argue with you, despite barely being able to understand you. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't mind foreigners, however, I do mind the people in question, the ones who will blindly attack me, when in reality, it's their own fault. To clarify, I wouldn't go to a Japanese forum, and argue with people in Japanese, because, I don't properly understand the language, and a debate of any kind requires understanding. (As do conversations in general.) Do, you see where I'm coming from? I just don't understand the logic of these people, are they just stupid, international trolls, I don't know. ? I would almost suggest they stick to forums that cater to their own language, at least until they get a better grip on the English language, and can have rational conversations. And okay, let's say they do come to an English speaking forum, and haven't quite mastered the language, well, perhaps they should avoid debates until they can understand what's going on a bit better. Am I wrong here? Should I be more patient? Should I ignore them when they act up? I've been arguing with them, but it seems to go nowhere, but, if you do nothing, then, they're not going to learn, or stop. (Can I report this behavior?) What do you guys think?
I am French, and work in Germany. What you express here is, in my experience, the very same mindset as in France : "first, know your language, then only you are welcome to argument". In Germany, people would listen to you even if you were speaking in URGGGzz ( this is a placeholder, in case it was not clear). And that is one of the many reasons why I enjoy to work here : the language does not matter, only the ideas. This open-minded way to interact with foreigners speeds up the integration. When your arguments are wrong because you did not catch something due to the lack of language knowledge, they will reexplain until they understand. This does not avoid some assholes to behave as you describe, e.g. go into arguments and try to explain you why they are right even if they do not understand you, but it does not happen very often. Precisely because of the patience the Germans show first place. Agreed, differences are that the situations I have described take place face to face, and in business environment ( where you just cannot tell people or colleagues to fuck off like you would on the internet). But, to come to a conclusion, I would recommend to show more patience - give them a chance to express their ideas, and to ignore the obvious trolls.
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus Do not feed the troll ! - Common proverb
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See, this is what I'm talking about. No one criticized your people, and for that matter who the f*ck are you? As for needing aid, who doesn't, the world isn't perfect, everyone just does their best to get by, you aren't as special as you seem to think you are. I'm sorry, but, I've lived a pretty tough life myself, I've been homeless, isolated, hungry, etc,. (I'm honestly, about a year away from stuffing a gun in mouth and pulling the trigger, so, really, f*ck you.)
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Do you think part of the problem may be that you do not have a very strong sense of humo(u)r?
AspDotNetDev wrote:
Do you think part of the problem may be that you do not have a very strong sense of humo(u)r?
And also perhaps that he is completely blind to sarcasm! :-)
Regards, Nish
Blog: voidnish.wordpress.com The life of a Malayalee American - by Nish
An article I recently wrote for an event souvenir
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How does that make me a snob? It's rude to argue with people in a language you don't understand. So, if I went to a Japanese forum, and acted like a complete jerk, it's okay, because I'm foreign? Please.
Joe_Dert wrote:
It's rude to argue with people in a language you don't understand.
Really? Well you must be such a superior person that you can discount the entire population of the world apart from those who speak in a way that is acceptable to you. Talking of being a jerk ...
Use the best guess
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FYI, Hindi is not the common language of India. Hindi is not synonymous with India. In fact, the Hindi-speaking belt has the largest number of illiterates in India and produces the vast number of unskilled labor. They are NOT the people who are reading Codeproject.
If you just look at Indian software folks, Telugu may be the best language to use :rolleyes:
Regards, Nish
Blog: voidnish.wordpress.com The life of a Malayalee American - by Nish
An article I recently wrote for an event souvenir
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I don't think you understand. I'm trying to have a serious conversation about an issue caused by the language barrier. This really isn't the place or time for trolling, grow up.
Joe_Dert wrote:
I don't think you understand.
No you don't understand butt monkey. This is The Lounge. We don't do serious and we don't give a faarrrkkkk if you are put out. You come here, pot something, if we care we reply nicely, the rest of the time we take the piss, you Yanks have to hang around for a long time to understand how this piss taking works. As for me, read back a few days, you will find I have unofficial (and really official, but Chris doesn't like o admit it) approval to sea in The Lounge. Go back far enough and you may learn all bout the origin of the Elephant. Now Elephant off Sunshine.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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I think you'll find that's what he was saying... :laugh:
The universe is composed of electrons, neutrons, protons and......morons. (ThePhantomUpvoter)
I think you'll find that most American do understand English. It's old people, that fail to realize that America is the melting pot, it's culture is constantly evolving. Most of what you see on the internet, and in the world today, is just slang, the rest, is stupidity, I won't argue that, it's blatant. My point, is that American English is constantly evolving, or as the kids would say, ya gotta keep up wit da timez dawg, do ya feel me?
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Not everything is a joke, nor should it be. I'm all about fun, in the proper place, and time, but this, this is like having a clown at a funeral, it's not funny, at all.
Joe_Dert wrote:
Not everything is a joke, nor should it be.
Disagree.
Joe_Dert wrote:
I'm all about fun, in the proper place, and time, but this, this is like having a clown at a funeral, it's not funny, at all.
Again, disagree: supposing Bobo the clown died: who do you expect to turn up at the funeral if not a bunch of clowns? You really have no sense of humor. At all.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. Those who seek perfection will only find imperfection nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me me, in pictures
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AspDotNetDev wrote:
Do you think part of the problem may be that you do not have a very strong sense of humo(u)r?
And also perhaps that he is completely blind to sarcasm! :-)
Regards, Nish
Blog: voidnish.wordpress.com The life of a Malayalee American - by Nish
An article I recently wrote for an event souvenir
Nish Sivakumar wrote:
And also perhaps that he is completely blind to sarcasm! :)
Come on Nish! Stop poking the Yanks. You know the don't get sarcasm, even when in a sarcasm block.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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People don't come here because it is an english speaking forum to argue with commonwealth natives... They come here because it an international website with 10 million members and they have a chance to discuss with some peers. If the "foreigners" (I guess you know you are also someone's foreigner...) could get that in their native language they would probably not bother you here. BTW why don't you stick to a local forum of your own ??
Seulement, dans certains cas, n'est-ce pas, on n'entend guère que ce qu'on désire entendre et ce qui vous arrange le mieux... [^] Joe never complained of anything but ever did his duty in his way of life, with a strong hand, a quiet tongue, and a gentle heart [^]
Guirec Le Bars wrote:
BTW why don't you stick to a local forum of your own ??
Shut up, you cheese eating surrender monkey.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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I don't think you understand. I'm trying to have a serious conversation about an issue caused by the language barrier. This really isn't the place or time for trolling, grow up.
The classic phrase of glass houses springs to mind. You've been twatted by an Indian over your poor English and try to fight back with stupid. Again you've been shown up by the natives better command of the language.
Reality is an illusion caused by a lack of alcohol
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I think a little context might be helpful for people to understand it completely. A link to the relevant discussion, please?
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
A link to the relevant discussion, please?
I think he got into an argument with S A Kryukov :-)
Regards, Nish
Blog: voidnish.wordpress.com The life of a Malayalee American - by Nish
An article I recently wrote for an event souvenir
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FYI, Hindi is not the common language of India. Hindi is not synonymous with India. In fact, the Hindi-speaking belt has the largest number of illiterates in India and produces the vast number of unskilled labor. They are NOT the people who are reading Codeproject.
Vivic wrote:
FYI, Hindi is not the common language of India.
Hindi is not synonymous with India.Next you will be telling me not all Indians were turbans, worship cows and eat curry. Bur the Heretic!
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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I got really, really pissed off once with a non English speaker who accused me of using the wrong word in something irreverent. Even after others said the word I had used was correct, if a little obscure in the way I had used it, he still insisted I had used the wrong word just because he had never used it like that.
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
ChrisElston wrote:
I got really, really pissed off once with a non English speaker who accused me of using the wrong word in something irreverent.
Even after others said the word I had used was correct, if a little obscure in the way I had used it, he still insisted I had used the wrong word just because he had never used it like that.Was he American?
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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Joe_Dert wrote:
I don't think you understand.
No you don't understand butt monkey. This is The Lounge. We don't do serious and we don't give a faarrrkkkk if you are put out. You come here, pot something, if we care we reply nicely, the rest of the time we take the piss, you Yanks have to hang around for a long time to understand how this piss taking works. As for me, read back a few days, you will find I have unofficial (and really official, but Chris doesn't like o admit it) approval to sea in The Lounge. Go back far enough and you may learn all bout the origin of the Elephant. Now Elephant off Sunshine.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
Michael Martin wrote:
No you don't understand butt monkey. This is The Lounge. We don't do serious and we don't give a faarrrkkkk if you are put out.
You come here, pot something, if we care we reply nicely, the rest of the time we take the piss, you Yanks have to hang around for a long time to understand how this piss taking works.
As for me, read back a few days, you will find I have unofficial (and really official, but Chris doesn't like o admit it) approval to sea in The Lounge. Go back far enough and you may learn all bout the origin of the Elephant.
Now Elephant off Sunshine.This needcs to replace the current Lounge rules at the top of the page. Explains the Lounge more accurately than the KSS rule/. no flame wars blurb. In fact I'm heading over to Sugs and Bugs now.
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I don't think you understood the post, nor who made it.
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
ChrisElston wrote:
nor who made it.
I'm so taking that as a compliment, but know on the face of it it probably isn't.
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I am French, and work in Germany. What you express here is, in my experience, the very same mindset as in France : "first, know your language, then only you are welcome to argument". In Germany, people would listen to you even if you were speaking in URGGGzz ( this is a placeholder, in case it was not clear). And that is one of the many reasons why I enjoy to work here : the language does not matter, only the ideas. This open-minded way to interact with foreigners speeds up the integration. When your arguments are wrong because you did not catch something due to the lack of language knowledge, they will reexplain until they understand. This does not avoid some assholes to behave as you describe, e.g. go into arguments and try to explain you why they are right even if they do not understand you, but it does not happen very often. Precisely because of the patience the Germans show first place. Agreed, differences are that the situations I have described take place face to face, and in business environment ( where you just cannot tell people or colleagues to fuck off like you would on the internet). But, to come to a conclusion, I would recommend to show more patience - give them a chance to express their ideas, and to ignore the obvious trolls.
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus Do not feed the troll ! - Common proverb
I gave them the same respect I give to everyone else. In fact, I'm giving them special treatment, because of the language barrier, and that's the crux of this matter, and part of the point of this discussion. In other words, I have no trouble, calling out anyone who speaks English, if I feel they need to be called out, on the other hand, I felt, extra consideration was needed in this special case, due to the fact that they don't really understand the language. I know plenty of people from around the world, who don't speak English that well, however, they've always treated me with respect, and I do the same. (One of my best friends on the NET is from Germany, and I have trouble understanding him all the time.) This is about people disrespecting me, with the extra consideration that they don't fully understand the language. Hope this clarifies my position.
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Michael Martin wrote:
No you don't understand butt monkey. This is The Lounge. We don't do serious and we don't give a faarrrkkkk if you are put out.
You come here, pot something, if we care we reply nicely, the rest of the time we take the piss, you Yanks have to hang around for a long time to understand how this piss taking works.
As for me, read back a few days, you will find I have unofficial (and really official, but Chris doesn't like o admit it) approval to sea in The Lounge. Go back far enough and you may learn all bout the origin of the Elephant.
Now Elephant off Sunshine.This needcs to replace the current Lounge rules at the top of the page. Explains the Lounge more accurately than the KSS rule/. no flame wars blurb. In fact I'm heading over to Sugs and Bugs now.
PB 432, 698 wrote:
This needcs to replace the current Lounge rules at the top of the page. Explains the Lounge more accurately than the KSS rule/. no flame wars blurb. In fact I'm heading over to Sugs and Bugs now.
I need a new keyboard or to stop drinking. Far too many spelling mistakes in that post. I'll take I as given that you know I'll have a new keyboard tomorrow.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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ChrisElston wrote:
I got really, really pissed off once with a non English speaker who accused me of using the wrong word in something irreverent.
Even after others said the word I had used was correct, if a little obscure in the way I had used it, he still insisted I had used the wrong word just because he had never used it like that.Was he American?
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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Joe_Dert wrote:
I don't think you understand.
No you don't understand butt monkey. This is The Lounge. We don't do serious and we don't give a faarrrkkkk if you are put out. You come here, pot something, if we care we reply nicely, the rest of the time we take the piss, you Yanks have to hang around for a long time to understand how this piss taking works. As for me, read back a few days, you will find I have unofficial (and really official, but Chris doesn't like o admit it) approval to sea in The Lounge. Go back far enough and you may learn all bout the origin of the Elephant. Now Elephant off Sunshine.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
