Should I take the time to learn C#
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Yes. A few reasons: 1)Apparently, Managed C++ is crap. (Christian Graus, Chris Maunder, Marc Clifton, etc. all say this) 2)Apparently, VB.NET is crap. (Everbody, even Paul Watson, CP's resident VBer says this) 3)J#.NET is crap. (This is a given) 4)Who cares about Eiffel or any of the other third party .NET languages. 5)C# is an ECMA standard. 6)C# was made for .NET 7)C# is cool. Ergo, you must learn C#.:) [edit]I just realized I didn't answer what facilities C# offers. The answer is the .NET framework. We've already established that C++.NET is crap, so you can really only get to .NET from C#, and .NET is the future.[/edit]
any idiot can write haiku you just stop at seventeenth syl -ThinkGeek Fortunes
David Stone wrote: 1)Apparently, Managed C++ is crap. (Christian Graus, Chris Maunder, Marc Clifton, etc. all say this) 2)Apparently, VB.NET is crap. (Everbody, even Paul Watson, CP's resident VBer says this) 3)J#.NET is crap. (This is a given) 4)Who cares about Eiffel or any of the other third party .NET languages. 5)C# is an ECMA standard. 6)C# was made for .NET 7)C# is cool. 1) MC++ rules. 2) true 3) ???? 4) What's wrong with 3rd party languages? 5) HAHAHAHAHA 6) true 7) Ice cream is cool. C# is a programming language.
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Christian Graus wrote: David Stone wrote: Apparently, Managed C++ is crap Yes, I've had to finally use it over the past few days, and it is. No it is not. It is the only .NET language, AFAIK, that leaves the programmer the choice when to use GC and when not.
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: It is the only .NET language, AFAIK, that leaves the programmer the choice when to use GC and when not. If by .NET language, you mean ugly hack on an existing language, then I'm with you, 100%. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003 -
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: It is the only .NET language, AFAIK, that leaves the programmer the choice when to use GC and when not. If by .NET language, you mean ugly hack on an existing language, then I'm with you, 100%. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003Christian Graus wrote: If by .NET language, you mean ugly hack on an existing language, then I'm with you, 100%. By .NET language, I mean a language which can produce IL.
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7 inch floppy discs ? I knew about 8 inch ( which I never used ) and 5 1/4 ( which I used a ton of ), 3 and 3 1/2 ( I forget the order, but one of those is what we use today, and the other was Amstrad only ). Was there such a thing as 7 inch, or did you mean 8 ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003 -
That is so cool. I thought I was the only programmer who felt that way. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003Christian Graus wrote: I thought I was the only programmer who felt that way. look at the number of articles on CP - lots of us do it for the hell of it. -c
Be very, very careful what you put into that head, because you will never, ever get it out. --Thomas Cardinal Wolsey
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Christian Graus wrote: I thought I was the only programmer who felt that way. look at the number of articles on CP - lots of us do it for the hell of it. -c
Be very, very careful what you put into that head, because you will never, ever get it out. --Thomas Cardinal Wolsey
True, but when I've said in the past that I don't want to retire, I don't recall anyone agreeing. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003 -
David Stone wrote: 1)Apparently, Managed C++ is crap. (Christian Graus, Chris Maunder, Marc Clifton, etc. all say this) 2)Apparently, VB.NET is crap. (Everbody, even Paul Watson, CP's resident VBer says this) 3)J#.NET is crap. (This is a given) 4)Who cares about Eiffel or any of the other third party .NET languages. 5)C# is an ECMA standard. 6)C# was made for .NET 7)C# is cool. 1) MC++ rules. 2) true 3) ???? 4) What's wrong with 3rd party languages? 5) HAHAHAHAHA 6) true 7) Ice cream is cool. C# is a programming language.
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: 1) MC++ rules. 2) true 3) ???? 4) What's wrong with 3rd party languages? 5) HAHAHAHAHA 6) true 7) Ice cream is cool. C# is a programming language. 1)I've heard from many people that MC++ sucks...so I'm gonna go with them until I find out for myself. 2)Glad you agree with me on that. There would be a problem if you didn't. :-D 3)J#? Microsoft's version of Java for .NET? It sucks by the way. 4)Nothing, I just haven't really seen any of them used much. 5)I'm glad that you like to laugh at facts...detracts from your credibility a lot. 6)Okay...two things we agree on. 7)No, Ice Cream is cold. C# is a cool programming language.
any idiot can write haiku you just stop at seventeenth syl -ThinkGeek Fortunes
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True, but when I've said in the past that I don't want to retire, I don't recall anyone agreeing. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003i've been out of work essentially for the past year, but i've been programming non-stop, full-time, the whole time. it's been the best year of my life, frankly. -c
Be very, very careful what you put into that head, because you will never, ever get it out. --Thomas Cardinal Wolsey
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True, but when I've said in the past that I don't want to retire, I don't recall anyone agreeing. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003I don't. Of course, I'm 16...nowhere near retirement, so my vote doesn't count. :)
any idiot can write haiku you just stop at seventeenth syl -ThinkGeek Fortunes
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As an old C and C++ programmer - I mean from the dawn of the languages - is there a concrete reason why I should make the investment in time ( I have the tools already ) to learn the language. What exactly does the language provide that C or C++ does not. I was told several years ago that in order to keep up I would need to learn VB ( HA!) and Java which I never did and never regretted. As a matter of fact my company made some bucks writting DLL's for people to use in their VB apps. Richard I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. Albert Einstein
I have one compelling reason for you: ASP.NET. Even if you don't do anything during the day that uses it learn it just for the fun you can have at home. Web development is just so much fun it's crazy! Bwhaahahahahahaha[^]! :-O I can't speak for the desktop development side as I've never tried it, apart from the walkthroughs that came in the box.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk "I'm waiting for Big Brother III" - JoeSox losing his credibility
h.a.s: 0.0.4
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I have one compelling reason for you: ASP.NET. Even if you don't do anything during the day that uses it learn it just for the fun you can have at home. Web development is just so much fun it's crazy! Bwhaahahahahahaha[^]! :-O I can't speak for the desktop development side as I've never tried it, apart from the walkthroughs that came in the box.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk "I'm waiting for Big Brother III" - JoeSox losing his credibility
h.a.s: 0.0.4
Noooo! Not the sesame street thing again!:eek: So you're still hooked on that think huh? Brad Jennings "if the golden arches shut shop, where else are the VB people going to get work." - Colin Davies
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Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: 1) MC++ rules. 2) true 3) ???? 4) What's wrong with 3rd party languages? 5) HAHAHAHAHA 6) true 7) Ice cream is cool. C# is a programming language. 1)I've heard from many people that MC++ sucks...so I'm gonna go with them until I find out for myself. 2)Glad you agree with me on that. There would be a problem if you didn't. :-D 3)J#? Microsoft's version of Java for .NET? It sucks by the way. 4)Nothing, I just haven't really seen any of them used much. 5)I'm glad that you like to laugh at facts...detracts from your credibility a lot. 6)Okay...two things we agree on. 7)No, Ice Cream is cold. C# is a cool programming language.
any idiot can write haiku you just stop at seventeenth syl -ThinkGeek Fortunes
David Stone wrote: 3)J#? Microsoft's version of Java for .NET? It sucks by the way I know what J# is. I just don't know anyone who tried it. Have you? David Stone wrote: 5)I'm glad that you like to laugh at facts...detracts from your credibility a lot. C# is a proprietary language, ECMA or not. David Stone wrote: 7)No, Ice Cream is cold. C# is a cool programming language. C# is OK, I don't know about cool. But THE programming language is C++, not C#.
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Noooo! Not the sesame street thing again!:eek: So you're still hooked on that think huh? Brad Jennings "if the golden arches shut shop, where else are the VB people going to get work." - Colin Davies
What do you think?[^] :wtf: I just can't cut down, I'm seeing more of Elmo per day than I am other humans. I am able to sing along to every one of the three songs in that game, and can even detect when he is going to say "sorry". Heck, I know the correct sequence to expose a bug in the game where he will count eight twice! It is not nice!! :eek:
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk "I'm waiting for Big Brother III" - JoeSox losing his credibility
h.a.s: 0.0.4
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If you want to learn a language that is similar in syntax to C++ and have the ability to run on platforms other than Windows then go with Java. Java would be a perfect replacement for CGI. If you just want to stick with Windows, then learn C#. Maybe try out ATL Server also. The C# syntax will take you all of 15 minutes to master. From there, it's just learning the Framework. Jason Gerard qeou kai kurioV Iasou Cristou douloV
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As an old C and C++ programmer - I mean from the dawn of the languages - is there a concrete reason why I should make the investment in time ( I have the tools already ) to learn the language. What exactly does the language provide that C or C++ does not. I was told several years ago that in order to keep up I would need to learn VB ( HA!) and Java which I never did and never regretted. As a matter of fact my company made some bucks writting DLL's for people to use in their VB apps. Richard I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. Albert Einstein
I have been developing at Microsoft recently. DISCLAIMER: These are my general impressions and opinions from my little compartment where I worked. They are not factual. They may or may not reflect Microsoft's actual intentions. Well, Microsoft is taking a big bet. The whole Microsoft is moving to .NET framework. Almost all existing API's are being converted to managed. New APIs appear to be either 1) provided in both managed and unmanaged forms. In many cases, the unmanaged form is not a mere wrapper. 2) exclusively written to be managed. You aren't going to see any new OLE apis at all. MFC appears to be a long-term dead-end, because they are so many compelling new features that will only be available in managed form. In addition, I see .NET frameworks in the next major iteration matching and far surpassing the comprehensive application-framework functionality of MFC . The upshot of Microsoft's bet on C# and .NET is the stunning amount of productivity and creativity unleashed at Microsoft. The next version of Windows looks like it is going to be the most dramatic upgrade since Windows 95. That's why I think that C# is the language of choice. I also believe that future features in C# will make Managed C++ less important.
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I have been developing at Microsoft recently. DISCLAIMER: These are my general impressions and opinions from my little compartment where I worked. They are not factual. They may or may not reflect Microsoft's actual intentions. Well, Microsoft is taking a big bet. The whole Microsoft is moving to .NET framework. Almost all existing API's are being converted to managed. New APIs appear to be either 1) provided in both managed and unmanaged forms. In many cases, the unmanaged form is not a mere wrapper. 2) exclusively written to be managed. You aren't going to see any new OLE apis at all. MFC appears to be a long-term dead-end, because they are so many compelling new features that will only be available in managed form. In addition, I see .NET frameworks in the next major iteration matching and far surpassing the comprehensive application-framework functionality of MFC . The upshot of Microsoft's bet on C# and .NET is the stunning amount of productivity and creativity unleashed at Microsoft. The next version of Windows looks like it is going to be the most dramatic upgrade since Windows 95. That's why I think that C# is the language of choice. I also believe that future features in C# will make Managed C++ less important.
But will this functionality be reserved for C# or is C++ ( as a language not a class library ) going to be given the functioality also - either in terms of API's or a new class library? I can not see why MS would abandon C++ but I could not see why they would embrace VB either. As a matter of fact is not C++ the current application development language at MS ? I have some friends that work there ( in the systems development team though) and I have not heard them talk about C# in terms other than "So What". Richard I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. Albert Einstein
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Then you assume that .NET is gonna stay around and that C# as a language is tied to it and is not very good as a standalone language in its own right. Not that I am web developer anyway because that is only , at best, 5-10% of our work - although it could be more in the future. Cool is not a factor - If I want to be cool I turn on the AC and code some Assembler. What I want to be is efficient and to not get to far behind the curve in Windows development. Richard I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. Albert Einstein
Richard Stringer wrote: Then you assume that .NET is gonna stay around and that C# as a language is tied to it and is not very good as a standalone language in its own right. Right. C# isn't a stand alone language. C# is managed code. Managed code CAN make you more efficient because a lot of the code needed to do trivial (and sometimes not so trivial) things is already there. But sometimes you are going to need C++ if you want to get down and dirty and do something that either the framework doesn't provide, or doesn't provide in the way you need it. I think there will still be plenty of low level coding needed in the future. The question is do you want to stick with that, or at least peak in another door and see what's on the other side. You should be able to pick up C# without much trouble.
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But will this functionality be reserved for C# or is C++ ( as a language not a class library ) going to be given the functioality also - either in terms of API's or a new class library? I can not see why MS would abandon C++ but I could not see why they would embrace VB either. As a matter of fact is not C++ the current application development language at MS ? I have some friends that work there ( in the systems development team though) and I have not heard them talk about C# in terms other than "So What". Richard I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. Albert Einstein
C/C++ is used in fairly low-level software at Microsoft and legacy applications like Office; and is still the most common language at Microsoft, but its usage is steadily eroding. I would guess that a quarter to a third of Microsoft developers is currently writing some kind of managed code. I can assure you that some time in the next few years, you will be writing managed code, if you write for the Windows platform. So, C# and managed C++ would be very relevant for you. Java and VB were probably never appropriate for you, as they are not really a replacement for C++. But C# aims to tackle the 90% of what C++ is use for. But the most important aspect of C# that I think you are missing is the PRODUCTIVITY element--that tenfold improvement in development time and reduction in bugs, while sacrificing little in the way of performance or power: The automatic memory management, object orientation, rich exception handling, rich metadata and reflection, visual forms environment, painless control development, super fast compilation time, elimination of headers files. Both Java and VB made huge sacrifices in both performance and power, and they both pushed an API outside of Windows. Whereas the .NET framework a natural object-oriented encapsulation of Windows. C# is very modern, whereas C++ is showing it's age. If you are programming in C++, I doubt you are being as productive as you could be. There are some projects that I wrote in C# that have taken me a few days, but would have taken me a month to do in C++. Unfortunately, you might not "get it" until you use it.
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As an old C and C++ programmer - I mean from the dawn of the languages - is there a concrete reason why I should make the investment in time ( I have the tools already ) to learn the language. What exactly does the language provide that C or C++ does not. I was told several years ago that in order to keep up I would need to learn VB ( HA!) and Java which I never did and never regretted. As a matter of fact my company made some bucks writting DLL's for people to use in their VB apps. Richard I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. Albert Einstein
If you plan on writing web-service apps, sure, go for it. If, on the other hand, you wan to write stuff like device drivers, or anything even remotely cross-platform, or are forward-thinking enough to realize that while platforms come and go, and that C/C++ is forever, then it's not worth it.
Through 86 years of perpetual motion, if he likes you he'll smile and he'll say, "Some of it's magic, some of it's tragic, but I had a good life all the way"
