Should I or Shouldn't I...
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I vote with Christian - XP sucks, but if you are running into it on customer systems, you really should learn it thoroughly. There's no way to escape the heap of excrement M$ has decided to ram down our throats. I've used it a while longer than Christian, though, and can promise that it will not get any better. It starts out bad, and stays that way. Specifically, it doesn't network worth a damn. The first thing to do is kill that useless simple sharing mode. It forces all network connections to shares to be authenticated using the Guest account, which is disabled on all machines for good reason. Most applications I've tried to run (admittedly few) work badly if at all on XP, even though they work perfectly on Win2K. Accessing shares also often requires mapping the target folder as a drive on the local machine, and the mapping is forgotten after a few hours of operation. Printers also get lost, and all machines in the workgroup have to be rebooted periodically to keep the group printers available. Wireless support is built in to XP, but it doesn't work without a lot of tweaking, and remains problematic (this may be specific to ORiNOCO products). Overall, I consider WinXP to be the Win3.x of the 21st century, but it's unlikely to be going away as it should. Bite the bullet and support your customers, but don't expect to enjoy it. It is ok for women not to like sports, so long as they nod in the right places and bring beers at the right times.
Paul Watson, on Sports - 2/10/2003Are you using WinXP Home Edition? I have found that networking is a pain under this version but it's much nicer under Pro edition. They're both really dumbed down but more so in Home edition. X| Brad Jennings "if the golden arches shut shop, where else are the VB people going to get work." - Colin Davies
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I've been having the same conundrum for the last 12 months. I have W2K Server on the laptop and most things work - but enough things don't *quite* work well enough that I'm getting to the point where installing XP will, I hope, fix the little niggling things. Having said that I can't stand the way XP tries to hide stuff from you. I hate being treated like the lowest common denominator. cheers, Chris Maunder
Yep, I hear you there. I had to tweak the death out of it before I was satisfied with the way everything worked. Brad Jennings "if the golden arches shut shop, where else are the VB people going to get work." - Colin Davies
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I havent had any problems with vs 6 on xp. It loads alot faster then any of the older versions of windows and is alot more stable. If you do decide to install it, you may want to shut off indexing and many other items that are not needed. You will notice a huge performance gain. You can switch the windowsxp theme to classic and it looks exactly like win2k. This is the first thing that gets taken care of after an install. Like many others the child color scheme just hurts my eyes.
Like many others the child color scheme just hurts my eyes. The childish color scheme was the main reason I was reluctant to upgrade. Brad Jennings "if the golden arches shut shop, where else are the VB people going to get work." - Colin Davies
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So I understand what you are saying, you think you disabled the updates on two of the machines, which have not been updated and work fine. But the one machine has been getting updates and you have problems with it? Later,
JoeSox
www.joeswammi.com
Constitution Party[^]None of them work as well as Win2K; the one that is fully updated is less reliable than the others, however. It is ok for women not to like sports, so long as they nod in the right places and bring beers at the right times.
Paul Watson, on Sports - 2/10/2003 -
Are you using WinXP Home Edition? I have found that networking is a pain under this version but it's much nicer under Pro edition. They're both really dumbed down but more so in Home edition. X| Brad Jennings "if the golden arches shut shop, where else are the VB people going to get work." - Colin Davies
This is the Pro version. The Home version is so bad I wouldn't recommend it to a home user that only checks email with a PC. Anyone that actually plans to use a computer for anything useful would be better off with a Mac than WinXP Home Edition. It is ok for women not to like sports, so long as they nod in the right places and bring beers at the right times.
Paul Watson, on Sports - 2/10/2003 -
This is the Pro version. The Home version is so bad I wouldn't recommend it to a home user that only checks email with a PC. Anyone that actually plans to use a computer for anything useful would be better off with a Mac than WinXP Home Edition. It is ok for women not to like sports, so long as they nod in the right places and bring beers at the right times.
Paul Watson, on Sports - 2/10/2003Buying a Mac is pushing it IMO, but I do agree that WinXP Home sucks donkey b...whoops can't say that here:-D. Brad Jennings "if the golden arches shut shop, where else are the VB people going to get work." - Colin Davies
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None of them work as well as Win2K; the one that is fully updated is less reliable than the others, however. It is ok for women not to like sports, so long as they nod in the right places and bring beers at the right times.
Paul Watson, on Sports - 2/10/2003Roger Wright wrote: None of them work as well as Win2K; I have had problems on Win2k machines but I think it was more of a hardware issue. But I agree Win2k is hard to beat for use in the business world. Roger Wright wrote: the one that is fully updated is less reliable than the others, however. Now that's weird, I never use the recommended driver updates because they never work and I only do the critical updates, and service pack updates and my machines seem to do just fine. Later,
JoeSox
www.joeswammi.com
Constitution Party[^] -
...Install Windows XP on my computer over the weekend. I am currently running Windows 2000 Professional. While I am not having any problems with it I am finding myself exposed to Windows XP more and more. Whenever I get a side job to fix a computer or network it is invariably Windows XP. Which I then have to find my way around to get to the tools I need. I have a legal copy of Windows XP Professional, though I only have Office 2000 and Visual Studio 6. Will I have any problems running these together? Any other gotcha's I should know about? What about tweaks to get it in working order? I also have several other programs, both commercial and shareware. But to the best of my knowledge they are all fine with Windows XP. If your answer is 'Windows XP sucks, don't use it', can you please explain why you feel this way. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
Office 2000 and VS6 will run fine on XP Pro. XP usually runs fine (the only issues I know of is weird USB stuff - it's less tolerating, and might do cr*p on isochronous transfers) Last year I upgraded my dev env from W2K to XP, and I can't really complain (after disabling the fisher price look) There are some nifty niceties you don't have on W2K (go discover!), and I'm rarely missing something (the "lock workstation", and the missing CPU indicator of the task manager being the most notorious). But XP sucks, and you shouldn't use it :cool:
So many people long for eternity that don't know what to do on a rainy sunday afternoon.
[sighist] | [Agile Programming] [doxygen]
If you look for evil in me you will find it whether it's there or not. -
Roger Wright wrote: None of them work as well as Win2K; I have had problems on Win2k machines but I think it was more of a hardware issue. But I agree Win2k is hard to beat for use in the business world. Roger Wright wrote: the one that is fully updated is less reliable than the others, however. Now that's weird, I never use the recommended driver updates because they never work and I only do the critical updates, and service pack updates and my machines seem to do just fine. Later,
JoeSox
www.joeswammi.com
Constitution Party[^]You confirm my experience! The last time I let an update through on my Win2K system, it destroyed my ISP connection. I still haven't found a way to fix it, but I got it working with a workaround. M$ updates are disasters - nothing I have ever done to any system in my ignorance has ever done as much damage as a M$ update. It is ok for women not to like sports, so long as they nod in the right places and bring beers at the right times.
Paul Watson, on Sports - 2/10/2003 -
I hated XP because I found it hard to find stuff I needed to use. It's a kids OS IMO. Having said that, if you need to use it for work, you should run it at home so you can navigate it easily when you need to. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003Thats what I thought too, but i found that after about 3 hours tweaking it you can actually make it look like an "adult" os.... normal start button, start menu, control panel, explorer windows, and all that good stuff. So after that, you can actually see that it's not actually a bad OS. it's more stable than 2000 IMO. And it boots in 1/3rd of the time. I've had no problems with any software on it, and i run VS6, SQL Server 2k, office 2k, jbuilder, unreal tournament 2k3, and so on.
#include <beer.h>
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...Install Windows XP on my computer over the weekend. I am currently running Windows 2000 Professional. While I am not having any problems with it I am finding myself exposed to Windows XP more and more. Whenever I get a side job to fix a computer or network it is invariably Windows XP. Which I then have to find my way around to get to the tools I need. I have a legal copy of Windows XP Professional, though I only have Office 2000 and Visual Studio 6. Will I have any problems running these together? Any other gotcha's I should know about? What about tweaks to get it in working order? I also have several other programs, both commercial and shareware. But to the best of my knowledge they are all fine with Windows XP. If your answer is 'Windows XP sucks, don't use it', can you please explain why you feel this way. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
Well, for one thing, if you use Paint somewhat then beware that the XP version doesn't allow you to save .gif pictures with transparency enabled. I hate it when upgrades of software have less features - or missing features from the previous version. X|
Wenn ist das Nunstück git und Slotermeyer? Ja! Beierhund das oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!
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Office 2000 and VS6 will run fine on XP Pro. XP usually runs fine (the only issues I know of is weird USB stuff - it's less tolerating, and might do cr*p on isochronous transfers) Last year I upgraded my dev env from W2K to XP, and I can't really complain (after disabling the fisher price look) There are some nifty niceties you don't have on W2K (go discover!), and I'm rarely missing something (the "lock workstation", and the missing CPU indicator of the task manager being the most notorious). But XP sucks, and you shouldn't use it :cool:
So many people long for eternity that don't know what to do on a rainy sunday afternoon.
[sighist] | [Agile Programming] [doxygen]
If you look for evil in me you will find it whether it's there or not.peterchen wrote: the "lock workstation Lock workstation is there, but you may have to disable fast-user switching for the shortcut key to work (Windows + L). If you disable the Welcome screen then Ctrl + Alt + Delete should work as it did under 2K. peterchen wrote: the missing CPU indicator of the task manager being the most notorious What are you refering to here? I've got Task Manager running, set to hide on minimize, and I have the CPU meter in the system tray. James "It is self repeating, of unknown pattern" Data - Star Trek: The Next Generation
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Thats what I thought too, but i found that after about 3 hours tweaking it you can actually make it look like an "adult" os.... normal start button, start menu, control panel, explorer windows, and all that good stuff. So after that, you can actually see that it's not actually a bad OS. it's more stable than 2000 IMO. And it boots in 1/3rd of the time. I've had no problems with any software on it, and i run VS6, SQL Server 2k, office 2k, jbuilder, unreal tournament 2k3, and so on.
#include <beer.h>
I find the "normal" look and feel so dated now...I actually prefer it with themes enabled (I run Aikon XP rather than Luna). :) Personally, I blame the big red "X" button in Luna for the kiddy image. ;) Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk
"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia GraeschTrouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++
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Hello, the CPians around the world.;) We can choose the classic view like Win2K GUI in XP, so if we screw up where to find the section to set the network, we can change to the classic view. (This happens to me. :wtf: ) I don't want to use XP now since my machine has only P 800 and memory in only 250. I also want to use Japanese font, and this makes VS .NET more time to compile the C# code. If I open VS .NET and work for ASP.NET, aspnet_wp.exe uses the memory so much. Currently, Win2k pro is enough for me to write the code.:~ -Masaaki Onishi (eCoolSoft)- ASP.NET Web and Windows Application Development by C# and MFC. eCoolWebPanelBar(BETA) is availabe now. http://www.ecoolsoft.com
Masaaki Onishi wrote: Currently, Win2k pro is enough for me to write the code Not if you intend to add support theme support (via a manifest) to your product. You need a system with
UxTheme.dllfor that, which means XP or later. Masaaki Onishi wrote: Hello, the CPians around the world. BTW, isn't it about time you came up with a new intro? ;P Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia GraeschTrouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++
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I find the "normal" look and feel so dated now...I actually prefer it with themes enabled (I run Aikon XP rather than Luna). :) Personally, I blame the big red "X" button in Luna for the kiddy image. ;) Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk
"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia GraeschTrouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++
UK cpians will find this hysterically funny:- Clickety...[^] Thats why I hate the default XP UI.
#include <beer.h>
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I hated XP because I found it hard to find stuff I needed to use. It's a kids OS IMO. Having said that, if you need to use it for work, you should run it at home so you can navigate it easily when you need to. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
It'd probably be fairly easy to make a bot that'd post random stupid VB questions, and nobody would probably ever notice - benjymous - 21-Jan-2003Christian Graus wrote: I hated XP because I found it hard to find stuff I needed to use. I expect that from Tasmanians. :-D Christian Graus wrote: It's a kids OS IMO. Perfect for you then. ;P Christian Graus wrote: Having said that, if you need to use it for work, you should run it at home so you can navigate it easily when you need to. My feelings when I made the post. Just wanted to see if a thousand people piped up with horror stories. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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I havent had any problems with vs 6 on xp. It loads alot faster then any of the older versions of windows and is alot more stable. If you do decide to install it, you may want to shut off indexing and many other items that are not needed. You will notice a huge performance gain. You can switch the windowsxp theme to classic and it looks exactly like win2k. This is the first thing that gets taken care of after an install. Like many others the child color scheme just hurts my eyes.
Mark A wrote: If you do decide to install it, you may want to shut off indexing and many other items that are not needed. You will notice a huge performance gain. I've just finished searching the Task List section of Answers That Work/[^] to find out which tasks I can kill on my Windows 2000 Professional box. I'll have to search all over again when I install Windows XP Professional. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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I've been having the same conundrum for the last 12 months. I have W2K Server on the laptop and most things work - but enough things don't *quite* work well enough that I'm getting to the point where installing XP will, I hope, fix the little niggling things. Having said that I can't stand the way XP tries to hide stuff from you. I hate being treated like the lowest common denominator. cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote: I hate being treated like the lowest common denominator. And after 32 years you still haven't gotten used to this? :laugh: Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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Michael Martin wrote: Install Windows XP on my computer over the weekend. It depends on your machine, make sure it is well over min. req, of course. Are you upgrading? or Clean install? or on another partition? If you are interested in making XP your main OS then go for it, simply because you can set system restore points, In-case of weird OS behavior(installing a bad driver or crapware that f-up your system) you can easily convert back. It is highly customizable so you can get the interface you like. I use Office 2000 on XP with no problems, and MSC++6.0 sp5, no probs. I use Virtual PC for my other OSs to test my software in and other boxes while I am at my "real job". Are you developing any software that needs to be tested on dif. OSs? Then you might want to use partition magic (tip:make sure to to one task at a time in pm) and shrink your win2k partition to get as much space as possible for the XP install. or whatever I am babbling, you know what you want to do:-D :-D ps. don't for get the windowsupdate for the service packs and hotfixes. Later,
JoeSox
www.joeswammi.com
Constitution Party[^]JoeSox wrote: It depends on your machine, make sure it is well over min. req, of course. Are you upgrading? or Clean install? or on another partition? AMD Athlon XP 1800+, 512MB RAM, 80GB HDD and I will be doig a clean install. JoeSox wrote: I use Office 2000 on XP with no problems, and MSC++6.0 sp5, no probs. Glad to hear someone else has them working before I atempt it. JoeSox wrote: Are you developing any software that needs to be tested on dif. OSs? Then you might want to use partition magic (tip:make sure to to one task at a time in pm) and shrink your win2k partition to get as much space as possible for the XP install. or whatever I am babbling, you know what you want to do :-D I haven't developed any software in the real world since I was retrenched 15 months ago. The job I got 2 months ago is non technical but is at least money. Full time programming job hasn't existed since 1998. JoeSox wrote: ps. don't for get the windowsupdate for the service packs and hotfixes. I have slipstreamed the XP and 2000 CD's so the service packs are already there. Also have all other service packs for software burnt to CD. WindowsUpdate is my first port of call after installation of Windows and motherboard drivers. I have dial-up so I update from the net as little as possible. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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I vote with Christian - XP sucks, but if you are running into it on customer systems, you really should learn it thoroughly. There's no way to escape the heap of excrement M$ has decided to ram down our throats. I've used it a while longer than Christian, though, and can promise that it will not get any better. It starts out bad, and stays that way. Specifically, it doesn't network worth a damn. The first thing to do is kill that useless simple sharing mode. It forces all network connections to shares to be authenticated using the Guest account, which is disabled on all machines for good reason. Most applications I've tried to run (admittedly few) work badly if at all on XP, even though they work perfectly on Win2K. Accessing shares also often requires mapping the target folder as a drive on the local machine, and the mapping is forgotten after a few hours of operation. Printers also get lost, and all machines in the workgroup have to be rebooted periodically to keep the group printers available. Wireless support is built in to XP, but it doesn't work without a lot of tweaking, and remains problematic (this may be specific to ORiNOCO products). Overall, I consider WinXP to be the Win3.x of the 21st century, but it's unlikely to be going away as it should. Bite the bullet and support your customers, but don't expect to enjoy it. It is ok for women not to like sports, so long as they nod in the right places and bring beers at the right times.
Paul Watson, on Sports - 2/10/2003Roger Wright wrote: Specifically, it doesn't network worth a damn. The first thing to do is kill that useless simple sharing mode. It forces all network connections to shares to be authenticated using the Guest account, which is disabled on all machines for good reason. Most applications I've tried to run (admittedly few) work badly if at all on XP, even though they work perfectly on Win2K. Accessing shares also often requires mapping the target folder as a drive on the local machine, and the mapping is forgotten after a few hours of operation. Printers also get lost, and all machines in the workgroup have to be rebooted periodically to keep the group printers available. Wireless support is built in to XP, but it doesn't work without a lot of tweaking, and remains problematic (this may be specific to ORiNOCO products). Thanks for the vote of confidence. Guess what my next side job is? Setting up 3 new XP machines in a small business with a network, ADSL connection and finally a networked inkjet printer. After migrating off the data from the old machines and restoring it to the new. Also have to setup some other software. Should be worth $3-400 so I'm willing to mess about with whatever. Any pointers to articles or extra information on the network connection problems? Roger Wright wrote: Overall, I consider WinXP to be the Win3.x of the 21st century, but it's unlikely to be going away as it should. Bite the bullet and support your customers, but don't expect to enjoy it. It can't be as bad as the all day meeting I had with the fuckwits at work today. I ended up just being facetious and annoying as the wankers would chase their tails for half an hour on a subject we put to bed in the first 2 minutes. If we multiplied the IQ's of the other 20 people in the room they still didn't make half of mine. It was excruciating, it wasn't worth it, even though I have to work to support family nothing is worth the pain of working with these wankers. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
