Why I support bringing back the death penalty...
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_Damian S_ wrote:
$100K per year per scumbag
You're in full 'Today Tonight' mode now :) Can you imagine the cost of introducing the death penalty? How many lawyers would be required to write the laws? And that's just the top of the ice berg. $100K is a lot of money to you and I but less than a drop in the ocean for the government. This is why sensationalist media love big numbers.
_Damian S_ wrote:
Why let them continue to breathe the air that they didn't afford their victims the same right to breathe?
Because members of a civilized society don't kill each other.
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Because members of a civilized society don't kill each other.
Exactly. So, one someone is uncivilized enough to murder someone else, they should be kicked out of society (killed.)
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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_Damian S_ wrote:
Well, for one thing, saving $100K per year per scumbag to keep them in maximum security.
As I posted the other day when this reared its head in the lounge, the reality is that it costs more to execute someone than to keep them locked up for the rest of their lives. Aside from that I agree with everything Josh and Nagy have put. It is not a deterrent, loss of life is not a greater punishment than loss of liberty, it is about revenge, and it is a hollow revenge that very, very rarely brings any comfort to the families of the victims even if they thought it might do beforehand. And in a civilised society you cannot say it is wrong for you to kill but OK for us.
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
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And in a civilised society you cannot say it is wrong for you to kill but OK for us.
Of course you can. And it isn't quite that simplistic. It isn't just killing, but murdering. There are different types of killing. When someone takes the life of someone else intentionally and not in defense then they deserve to die. That is a valid rule.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Perhaps not for the mother, who no doubt was also a victim of sorts, but still rightly in jail, but for the partner who brutally destroyed a young life... clickety[^]
Quad skating his way through the world since the early 80's... Booger Mobile - My bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - check out the blog here!! | If you feel generous - make a donation to Camp Quality!!
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I'm with Josh and, surprisingly, MM. Let the mofu rot in jail, but no matter how heinous the crime I cannot condone the taking of a life. The death penalty is pure revenge, it doesn't solve anything, it doesn't deter other chrimes, it doesn't bring back the victims. Send the perpetrators to jail and leave them there until they die. The message is there and it is clear - "You are not civilised, you are not part of society. We the society are civilised and so we will not treat you like you treated your victims, but we will choose your destiny. Your life is now owned by society and society chooses to let you live."
Reality is an illusion caused by a lack of alcohol "Nagy, you have won the internets." - Keith Barrow
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The death penalty is pure revenge
Perhaps from the point of view of the affected. But, from the point of view of the law it is merely the punishment. The problem with murder is there cannot be any restitution made. The murderer can never fix the problem. Is it revenge when we punish someone for stealing? No, of course not. It's not revenge to kill a killer, at least not in the court's eyes.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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And in a civilised society you cannot say it is wrong for you to kill but OK for us.
Of course you can. And it isn't quite that simplistic. It isn't just killing, but murdering. There are different types of killing. When someone takes the life of someone else intentionally and not in defense then they deserve to die. That is a valid rule.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
When someone takes the life of someone else intentionally and not in defense then they deserve to die. That is a valid rule.
Only in a few backwards places like China, Iran, North Korea, and the USA, the rest of the world has moved on.
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
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Because members of a civilized society don't kill each other.
Exactly. So, one someone is uncivilized enough to murder someone else, they should be kicked out of society (killed.)
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
So, one someone is uncivilized enough to murder someone else, they should be killed.
And you don't see any contradiction in that statement? "Killing is wrong, so if you kill someone, we'll kill you." As someone possibly said once[^], "An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind".
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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ryanb31 wrote:
When someone takes the life of someone else intentionally and not in defense then they deserve to die. That is a valid rule.
Only in a few backwards places like China, Iran, North Korea, and the USA, the rest of the world has moved on.
“I believe that there is an equality to all humanity. We all suck.” Bill Hicks
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ryanb31 wrote:
So, one someone is uncivilized enough to murder someone else, they should be killed.
And you don't see any contradiction in that statement? "Killing is wrong, so if you kill someone, we'll kill you." As someone possibly said once[^], "An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind".
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
Again, it isn't if you kill we kill. If you murder, then yes we kill. What's the point in keeping them alive? It's the same for parents who spank children. One point of view is to see it as hypocritical. In the case of murder, that is the rule. If you murder, you die.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Perhaps not for the mother, who no doubt was also a victim of sorts, but still rightly in jail, but for the partner who brutally destroyed a young life... clickety[^]
Quad skating his way through the world since the early 80's... Booger Mobile - My bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - check out the blog here!! | If you feel generous - make a donation to Camp Quality!!
Death is short, you only notice dying and the time you spend waiting. I'm sure that with the right combination of medication and physical- and psychological torture, you could completely break a person while keeping them alive for the longest possible time. If you want revenge, do it right.
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Again, it isn't if you kill we kill. If you murder, then yes we kill. What's the point in keeping them alive? It's the same for parents who spank children. One point of view is to see it as hypocritical. In the case of murder, that is the rule. If you murder, you die.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
What's the point in keeping them alive?
What's the point in killing them?
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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ryanb31 wrote:
What's the point in keeping them alive?
What's the point in killing them?
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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What's the point in killing them?
They are a waste of space? They have lost the right to be here? You pick. In a world where abortion is so widely accepted I am surprised so many people are against the death penalty. I am not suggesting it is the same people but it does seem odd to me.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Because members of a civilized society don't kill each other.
Exactly. So, one someone is uncivilized enough to murder someone else, they should be kicked out of society (killed.)
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
So, one someone is uncivilized enough to murder someone else, they should be kicked out of society (killed.)
Being kicked out of society is something different from being killed. As soon as someone claims the right to kill, I'll *decide* I have the same rights.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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ryanb31 wrote:
So, one someone is uncivilized enough to murder someone else, they should be kicked out of society (killed.)
Being kicked out of society is something different from being killed. As soon as someone claims the right to kill, I'll *decide* I have the same rights.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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What's the point in killing them?
They are a waste of space? They have lost the right to be here? You pick. In a world where abortion is so widely accepted I am surprised so many people are against the death penalty. I am not suggesting it is the same people but it does seem odd to me.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
They are a waste of space?
In other words, "I don't like them, therefore ... REVENGE!"
ryanb31 wrote:
They have lost the right to be here?
That's a judgement which has to be made by society as a whole, and most civilised societies have decided that the death penalty is an overreaction.
ryanb31 wrote:
In a world where abortion is so widely accepted ...
Abortion is a completely separate argument which doesn't belong in this thread. Suffice it to say that it doesn't involve depriving a living person of life.
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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ryanb31 wrote:
They are a waste of space?
In other words, "I don't like them, therefore ... REVENGE!"
ryanb31 wrote:
They have lost the right to be here?
That's a judgement which has to be made by society as a whole, and most civilised societies have decided that the death penalty is an overreaction.
ryanb31 wrote:
In a world where abortion is so widely accepted ...
Abortion is a completely separate argument which doesn't belong in this thread. Suffice it to say that it doesn't involve depriving a living person of life.
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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In other words, "I don't like them, therefore ... REVENGE!"
No, in your words.
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That's a judgement which has to be made by society as a whole
I agree. So, let each society decide.
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that the death penalty is an overreaction.
But again, why keep them alive? What's the purpose? Just to remain "civilized"?
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Suffice it to say that it doesn't involve depriving a living person of life.
Did you really mean to say that?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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The death penalty is pure revenge
Perhaps from the point of view of the affected. But, from the point of view of the law it is merely the punishment. The problem with murder is there cannot be any restitution made. The murderer can never fix the problem. Is it revenge when we punish someone for stealing? No, of course not. It's not revenge to kill a killer, at least not in the court's eyes.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
Perhaps from the point of view of the affected. But, from the point of view of the law it is merely the punishment.
If law stated that they should be celebrated, it'd still be merely the point of view of the law. The death-penalty has been chosen as a punishment and put into law by people.
ryanb31 wrote:
Is it revenge when we punish someone for stealing?
Stop playing wordsmith. You could argue that the death-penalty would be appropriate for shop-lifting using that line of argumentation.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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ryanb31 wrote:
Perhaps from the point of view of the affected. But, from the point of view of the law it is merely the punishment.
If law stated that they should be celebrated, it'd still be merely the point of view of the law. The death-penalty has been chosen as a punishment and put into law by people.
ryanb31 wrote:
Is it revenge when we punish someone for stealing?
Stop playing wordsmith. You could argue that the death-penalty would be appropriate for shop-lifting using that line of argumentation.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
My point is, it is not revenge. As someone else pointed out, perhaps we should torture them, bring them close to death, rehabilitate them, and continue repeating that process. THAT would be revenge.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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In other words, "I don't like them, therefore ... REVENGE!"
No, in your words.
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That's a judgement which has to be made by society as a whole
I agree. So, let each society decide.
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that the death penalty is an overreaction.
But again, why keep them alive? What's the purpose? Just to remain "civilized"?
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Suffice it to say that it doesn't involve depriving a living person of life.
Did you really mean to say that?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
No, in your words.
Well how else would you define "that person's a waste of space, so lets kill them"?
ryanb31 wrote:
But again, why keep them alive? What's the purpose? Just to remain "civilized"?
Well, if you don't care about being civilised, then lets go back to being aggressive primates who kill each other over the slightest disagreement.
ryanb31 wrote:
Did you really mean to say that?
Yes, but as I said, this is a different argument which doesn't belong in this thread, and possibly not even in this forum.
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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ryanb31 wrote:
No, in your words.
Well how else would you define "that person's a waste of space, so lets kill them"?
ryanb31 wrote:
But again, why keep them alive? What's the purpose? Just to remain "civilized"?
Well, if you don't care about being civilised, then lets go back to being aggressive primates who kill each other over the slightest disagreement.
ryanb31 wrote:
Did you really mean to say that?
Yes, but as I said, this is a different argument which doesn't belong in this thread, and possibly not even in this forum.
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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Well how else would you define "that person's a waste of space, so lets kill them"?
I would say it is a crying shame they made the choice they did. Now they suffer the consequence. We can only control our choices, not our consequences.
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Well, if you don't care about being civilised,
I didn't say that. But why aren't you answering the question?
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Yes
Then clearly you do not know what abortion is. You are OK with killing babies just because someone doesn't want it but you can't condone killing a gruesome murderer? Your priorities are way out of whack. There is no excuse for that.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Well how else would you define "that person's a waste of space, so lets kill them"?
I would say it is a crying shame they made the choice they did. Now they suffer the consequence. We can only control our choices, not our consequences.
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Well, if you don't care about being civilised,
I didn't say that. But why aren't you answering the question?
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Yes
Then clearly you do not know what abortion is. You are OK with killing babies just because someone doesn't want it but you can't condone killing a gruesome murderer? Your priorities are way out of whack. There is no excuse for that.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
I would say it is a crying shame they made the choice they did. Now they suffer the consequence. We can only control our choices, not our consequences.
That doesn't match your statement that we should kill them because "they're a waste of space".
ryanb31 wrote:
But why aren't you answering the question?
For the same reason that you're not answering my question: what's the point in killing them?
ryanb31 wrote:
You are OK with killing babies just because someone doesn't want it
You really want to drag this thread down? OK. :suss: No, I'm not "OK with killing babies". There's a significant difference between abortion and killing babies. If there wasn't, then every man would be crushed by guilt for every time he ejaculated and didn't have 10 billion healthy children as a result. And every woman would be suicidal at the though of each menstrual cycle which passed without producing a child. There's a difference between "a baby" and "a collection of cells with the potential to become a baby". Once again, it's up to society to determine the point at which one becomes the other. At any point before that, aborting the collection of cells is perfectly acceptable.
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
