When did Programmers become Developers?
-
_Maxxx_ wrote:
I think the why is that there are no existing words that describe the functions performed sufficiently well that non technical people will understand.
Blueprints = program designs/diagrams. Architect = designer/chief designer/systems analyst Developing = programming Foundation = foundation (this one's a better than average analogy) Framework = this is used for a dozen different meanings, from toolkit to template to app-management kit, so is inherently inaccurate. There is also analogous terminology from a large number of other trades/professions that could be used, but they wouldn't give us the singularly inappropriate image of muscly builders. I think we should use hairdressing terms; that would cure a lot of the big-ego problems.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
-
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
A programmer is someone who writes code. Nothing else.
Someone who just writes code is a coder. A programmer creates computer programs - that includes coding, but also design, etc.
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
A programmer is someone who writes code. Nothing else.
The term, "programmer" is used in other industries. You're a programmer if you figure out the order the TV shows will be aired.
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
-
Quote:
Software is a not a building.
I kind of disagree with comment. You need designs, specifications and frameworks for both buildings and software. You need a team with certain skills to build the correct parts of both, they have very similar attributes. Though the question is how far does that extend.
Simon Lee Shugar (Software Developer) www.simonshugar.co.uk "You can be a king or a street sweeper, but everybody dances with the grim reaper" - Robert Alton Harris
Simon Lee Shugar wrote:
Quote:
Software is a not a building.
I kind of disagree with comment.
I agree with you. Before being seduced by the dark side of programming, I was studying to be an architect. I still give architectural examples when I am asking for specifications. I ask them to tell me their wildest fantasy, even if we don't get there. I tell them that while code is plastic, as you start building large programs, it takes on a rigidity. I say to them, "Don't tell me you want a wet bar on the other side of the room after I've laid the concrete slab. It can be done, but it becomes far more expensive." We picked up a bunch of clients from a company, including the company, because, as I suspected, their code had developed the consistency of concrete and it was more profitable to get out of the business and come over to our system that was more flexible.
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
-
Simon Lee Shugar wrote:
Quote:
Software is a not a building.
I kind of disagree with comment.
I agree with you. Before being seduced by the dark side of programming, I was studying to be an architect. I still give architectural examples when I am asking for specifications. I ask them to tell me their wildest fantasy, even if we don't get there. I tell them that while code is plastic, as you start building large programs, it takes on a rigidity. I say to them, "Don't tell me you want a wet bar on the other side of the room after I've laid the concrete slab. It can be done, but it becomes far more expensive." We picked up a bunch of clients from a company, including the company, because, as I suspected, their code had developed the consistency of concrete and it was more profitable to get out of the business and come over to our system that was more flexible.
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
I'd say thats a brilliant analogy of software / code bases in general. Also it's good to see why people should consider themselves "Developers" as we need to be able to think of the design as well as the code these days. Upvoted for the example! :)
Simon Lee Shugar (Software Developer) www.simonshugar.co.uk "You can be a king or a street sweeper, but everybody dances with the grim reaper" - Robert Alton Harris
-
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Software Miracle Maker
I like that :) On a more serious note, I think 'algorithm inventor' pretty accurately describes what I do most of the time.
Stefan_Lang wrote:
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Software Miracle Maker
I like that :)
I was going to name my company "WizardWare", but some spammers beat me to it. My second choice, "Non-Heteropterous Software" (Non-Buggy Software) did not have the same ring. :-D
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
-
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
A programmer is someone who writes code. Nothing else.
The term, "programmer" is used in other industries. You're a programmer if you figure out the order the TV shows will be aired.
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
The term "developer" is used in other industries as well, such as real estate development. I prefer bit jockey.
-
So I've thought about this for a little bit today I quite like using the term Developer, its generic yet says exactly what we do, Develop stuff. Though is there really any difference to programmers and is the term programmer obselete in the modern world? I remember reading this article Don't Call Yourself A Programmer, And Other Career Advice. So my question is, what should it be, developer, programmer and which do you prefer?
Simon Lee Shugar (Software Developer) www.simonshugar.co.uk "You can be a king or a street sweeper, but everybody dances with the grim reaper" - Robert Alton Harris
Simon Lee Shugar wrote:
what should it be, developer, programmer and which do you prefer?
Why only two those options? Personally I prefer "craftsman."
-
Simon Lee Shugar wrote:
what should it be, developer, programmer and which do you prefer?
Why only two those options? Personally I prefer "craftsman."
You can use "Overlord Of The Universe" if you so wish for your job title, I was just hitting on a general change :)
Simon Lee Shugar (Software Developer) www.simonshugar.co.uk "You can be a king or a street sweeper, but everybody dances with the grim reaper" - Robert Alton Harris
-
harold aptroot wrote:
Developer has a vague smell of Real Estate about it, mixed with a little Delusions of Grandeur. Programmer describes exactly what you're doing: you're programming. You're not building something. Software is a not a building.
Upvoted, and I am seriously tempted to create a few CodeProject accounts so I could update this even more. "Programming" means "creating computer programs" and that's exactly what we do. Why do we need to call ourselves engineers (where are the engines?) or architects (ditto for buildings and cities)?
Engineer isn't just someone who deals with engines. In Spanish, engineer is translated as "ingeniero", someone who uses their ingenious thinking ("ingenio") to solve a problem. In that sense, we're all engineers.
-
So I've thought about this for a little bit today I quite like using the term Developer, its generic yet says exactly what we do, Develop stuff. Though is there really any difference to programmers and is the term programmer obselete in the modern world? I remember reading this article Don't Call Yourself A Programmer, And Other Career Advice. So my question is, what should it be, developer, programmer and which do you prefer?
Simon Lee Shugar (Software Developer) www.simonshugar.co.uk "You can be a king or a street sweeper, but everybody dances with the grim reaper" - Robert Alton Harris
-
So I've thought about this for a little bit today I quite like using the term Developer, its generic yet says exactly what we do, Develop stuff. Though is there really any difference to programmers and is the term programmer obselete in the modern world? I remember reading this article Don't Call Yourself A Programmer, And Other Career Advice. So my question is, what should it be, developer, programmer and which do you prefer?
Simon Lee Shugar (Software Developer) www.simonshugar.co.uk "You can be a king or a street sweeper, but everybody dances with the grim reaper" - Robert Alton Harris
In the old days, pre 1980, when computer 'terminals' or 'ports' were scarce, programmers, particularlay Cobol programmers, wrote their code on coding sheets or forms. These forms had preformatted grids that could accommodate all of the divisions of a cobol program and had to be filled out appropriately and precisely with proper margins and syntax. These were passed on to a 'coder', basically a typist, who would type the code onto a machine readable medium--perhaps cards--which were fed into the computer for compiling, a procedure that could take a considerable time. Eventually, a printout of the results of the compile found its way back to the programmer who would then have to use the report to debug his program. The programmer worked to a 'spec' produced by an analyst. Over time, as terminals or work-stations became more available these jobs began to overlap. Programmers became their own coders--they would still write their code on sheets so that the program could be visually debugged by a 'walk through' and when happy with their code they would book time on a terminal to code and compile their programs. They would still work to a program or system specification produced by an systems analyst. Eventually these two jobs overlapped--hence analyst / programmer. I would not get too technical about the other titles. Often a title was issued instead of a raise and managers became ever more creative in assigning titles. Many of these titles were movable in the sense their meaning could change. For example a 'software engineer' was, one time, someone who could quantify, in terms of time, the various procedures a computer might have to perform to execute a particular program. They were also involved in quantifying to what extent a program was provable. I have a certificate that says I am a software engineer but for the particular course I practised none of these tasks.
-
So I've thought about this for a little bit today I quite like using the term Developer, its generic yet says exactly what we do, Develop stuff. Though is there really any difference to programmers and is the term programmer obselete in the modern world? I remember reading this article Don't Call Yourself A Programmer, And Other Career Advice. So my question is, what should it be, developer, programmer and which do you prefer?
Simon Lee Shugar (Software Developer) www.simonshugar.co.uk "You can be a king or a street sweeper, but everybody dances with the grim reaper" - Robert Alton Harris
Don't forget Programmer/Analyst, Software Developer, Software Architect, and all the other variations. What's really bizarre about all these titles is when you look at the results of salary surveys and find all these titles have different pay scales, when they are practically the same job.
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
-
So I've thought about this for a little bit today I quite like using the term Developer, its generic yet says exactly what we do, Develop stuff. Though is there really any difference to programmers and is the term programmer obselete in the modern world? I remember reading this article Don't Call Yourself A Programmer, And Other Career Advice. So my question is, what should it be, developer, programmer and which do you prefer?
Simon Lee Shugar (Software Developer) www.simonshugar.co.uk "You can be a king or a street sweeper, but everybody dances with the grim reaper" - Robert Alton Harris
As an amateur I design and develop my own smallish apps, but having started in the days of the C64 I always think of myself as an amateur 'programmer'. 'Developer' just sounds naff and pretentious to me. I think of it as something only elite business software demigods are capable of. To be fair though, developing commercial apps does involve a lot more software architecture than my small mathematical and graphical apps, so I do get the term, but it still sounds naff and pretentious to me. 'Programmer' simply sounds cool, so it may be pretentious but doesn't sound so. One blog I read defined 'developer' as a more professional version of a 'programmer', and I guess that's about right, but all are programmers at the end of the day. When I design and write an app I do whatever it takes to make it work well (nobody is around to help me) but I still say it's programming as in the end of the day it's all about getting the computer to do what I want, and to do it well. 'Developer' is too vague-sounding for my liking, but then I'm only an amateur, a mere impling.
-
So I've thought about this for a little bit today I quite like using the term Developer, its generic yet says exactly what we do, Develop stuff. Though is there really any difference to programmers and is the term programmer obselete in the modern world? I remember reading this article Don't Call Yourself A Programmer, And Other Career Advice. So my question is, what should it be, developer, programmer and which do you prefer?
Simon Lee Shugar (Software Developer) www.simonshugar.co.uk "You can be a king or a street sweeper, but everybody dances with the grim reaper" - Robert Alton Harris
fwiw: a developer - in construction - is the person/company that takes empty land and develops it - adds sewers, connects the power grid, telephone, etc. - so something can be built on the land. when the developer is done, there are no, or few structures, but it's usable land for new homes, offices, projects. builders that have bought the land then build things on the land; the things are built based on plans drawn by architects. the ones who build are tradespeople - concrete pourers/framers, carpenters, electricians, plumbers, roofers, brick layers, landscapers... sometimes the builders use one drawing and make a hundred of the same thing; often what they make are made-to-order - each house/plan being unique. one-off designs are created to that end. (though they are often reused and altered slightly by each customer.) (and yes, *very* often customers will request changes to the original specs throughout the building process, to the chagrin of the manager. and yes, they pay a lot for those changes, when they're possible.) we use construction terminology but where did they get the terminology? they're just words that apply pretty well to both.
-
You make my point - those terms are existing but don't properly describe what is being done in the role - a programmer should probably be called a builder? or maybe a Brickie. the point is, we borrow words from other industries and apply a 'best-fit' approach rather than using new words (like programmer) Oh, and before someone corrects me, I am aware that even the word programmer was borrowed from a word meaning "event planner" I think we should have "Program Code Writers" and "Program Designers" - makes more sense really?
MVVM # - I did it My Way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
Build is what the compiler does. The command is even called that. Programmers/Developers/Coders/Stylists just make really, really detailed blueprints so the stupid, literal builder (it's just a computer program, remember) can do the building. StackOverflow: What's wrong with the analogy between software and building construction?[^] My answer to Stackoverflow:Throwaway Prototypes vs Evolutionary - Justifying their use to the business, and preventing their misuse[^]
-
-
So I've thought about this for a little bit today I quite like using the term Developer, its generic yet says exactly what we do, Develop stuff. Though is there really any difference to programmers and is the term programmer obselete in the modern world? I remember reading this article Don't Call Yourself A Programmer, And Other Career Advice. So my question is, what should it be, developer, programmer and which do you prefer?
Simon Lee Shugar (Software Developer) www.simonshugar.co.uk "You can be a king or a street sweeper, but everybody dances with the grim reaper" - Robert Alton Harris
I was first called a software developer in 1996. That is when I first saw it in the job press. Don't remember seeing the term before that but then again, I wasn't looking for a job.
-
Don't forget Programmer/Analyst, Software Developer, Software Architect, and all the other variations. What's really bizarre about all these titles is when you look at the results of salary surveys and find all these titles have different pay scales, when they are practically the same job.
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.
Oh yes, forgot about those. On the engineering front, they have Junior SW Engineer, SW Engineer, Senior SW Engineer, Junior Principal SWE, Principal SWE and Senior Principal SWE and of course the Software Consultant or subcontractor. In some places they just use grade numbers: Engineer 3, Engineer 4 etc. The fancy titles are reserved for documents.
-
Build is what the compiler does. The command is even called that. Programmers/Developers/Coders/Stylists just make really, really detailed blueprints so the stupid, literal builder (it's just a computer program, remember) can do the building. StackOverflow: What's wrong with the analogy between software and building construction?[^] My answer to Stackoverflow:Throwaway Prototypes vs Evolutionary - Justifying their use to the business, and preventing their misuse[^]
I like how you combine examples of how building code isn't anything like constructing physical structures with justifications for calling it building. Graduating as an ME, I know there is a lot that's unknown in the beginning of a building project. There are people who will want anti-gravity engines built into their project and you have to explain to them you don't know how to design that. So there are similar expectations in both fields. The Tacoma Narrows bridge is a famous example of new requirements combined with people not trained to handle the new technology causing disaster. The analogy between building and programming is closer than most developers realize. The only real difference is that bad building design usually shows up right at the start of the project, while programmers are expected to start building before they actually know what they will be building.
-
I like how you combine examples of how building code isn't anything like constructing physical structures with justifications for calling it building. Graduating as an ME, I know there is a lot that's unknown in the beginning of a building project. There are people who will want anti-gravity engines built into their project and you have to explain to them you don't know how to design that. So there are similar expectations in both fields. The Tacoma Narrows bridge is a famous example of new requirements combined with people not trained to handle the new technology causing disaster. The analogy between building and programming is closer than most developers realize. The only real difference is that bad building design usually shows up right at the start of the project, while programmers are expected to start building before they actually know what they will be building.
You're right about software dev itself being more like both structural and, even more so, mechanical engineering than most devs think, but it is also much LESS like physical engineering in terms of Project Management than some PMs and managers are led to think. I have a really good friend who trained as a CE and is now in software and we often tease each other about the differences, but in truth there really are similarities. Its really the (project) management that is the issue in terms of falsely perceived similarities. p.s; off topic: your note about anti-gravity houses reminds me... In this part of the world, houses were traditionally (i.e. more than say 60 years ago) usually built up high on sturdy pillars to allow air circulation underneath. Often these days, that underneath space is enclosed for more living space. I was talking once to a builder about costs of having excess posts removed underneath. He said "$300 per post, regardless." I asked what he meant by regardless, and he said that there was always a way to remove any post, and his charge would be $300 per post. I wasn't perfectly serious when I immediately asked him to remove every single one, but if he could have made the house float for that price, it would have been totally worth it :)