When did Programmers become Developers?

[A A J Rodriguez]

Engineer isn't just someone who deals with engines. In Spanish, engineer is translated as "ingeniero", someone who uses their ingenious thinking ("ingenio") to solve a problem. In that sense, we're all engineers.

[bwallan]

I prefer Software Engineer... Although I will accept Software Developer. I correct anyone who refers to me as a mere Programmer; degrading! Along the same lines has having a "Job" versus a "Career"...

[codas]

In the old days, pre 1980, when computer 'terminals' or 'ports' were scarce, programmers, particularlay Cobol programmers, wrote their code on coding sheets or forms. These forms had preformatted grids that could accommodate all of the divisions of a cobol program and had to be filled out appropriately and precisely with proper margins and syntax. These were passed on to a 'coder', basically a typist, who would type the code onto a machine readable medium--perhaps cards--which were fed into the computer for compiling, a procedure that could take a considerable time. Eventually, a printout of the results of the compile found its way back to the programmer who would then have to use the report to debug his program. The programmer worked to a 'spec' produced by an analyst. Over time, as terminals or work-stations became more available these jobs began to overlap. Programmers became their own coders--they would still write their code on sheets so that the program could be visually debugged by a 'walk through' and when happy with their code they would book time on a terminal to code and compile their programs. They would still work to a program or system specification produced by an systems analyst. Eventually these two jobs overlapped--hence analyst / programmer. I would not get too technical about the other titles. Often a title was issued instead of a raise and managers became ever more creative in assigning titles. Many of these titles were movable in the sense their meaning could change. For example a 'software engineer' was, one time, someone who could quantify, in terms of time, the various procedures a computer might have to perform to execute a particular program. They were also involved in quantifying to what extent a program was provable. I have a certificate that says I am a software engineer but for the particular course I practised none of these tasks.

[TNCaver]

Don't forget Programmer/Analyst, Software Developer, Software Architect, and all the other variations. What's really bizarre about all these titles is when you look at the results of salary surveys and find all these titles have different pay scales, when they are practically the same job.

If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP.

[BotReject]

As an amateur I design and develop my own smallish apps, but having started in the days of the C64 I always think of myself as an amateur 'programmer'. 'Developer' just sounds naff and pretentious to me. I think of it as something only elite business software demigods are capable of. To be fair though, developing commercial apps does involve a lot more software architecture than my small mathematical and graphical apps, so I do get the term, but it still sounds naff and pretentious to me. 'Programmer' simply sounds cool, so it may be pretentious but doesn't sound so. One blog I read defined 'developer' as a more professional version of a 'programmer', and I guess that's about right, but all are programmers at the end of the day. When I design and write an app I do whatever it takes to make it work well (nobody is around to help me) but I still say it's programming as in the end of the day it's all about getting the computer to do what I want, and to do it well. 'Developer' is too vague-sounding for my liking, but then I'm only an amateur, a mere impling.

[thewazz]

fwiw: a developer - in construction - is the person/company that takes empty land and develops it - adds sewers, connects the power grid, telephone, etc. - so something can be built on the land. when the developer is done, there are no, or few structures, but it's usable land for new homes, offices, projects. builders that have bought the land then build things on the land; the things are built based on plans drawn by architects. the ones who build are tradespeople - concrete pourers/framers, carpenters, electricians, plumbers, roofers, brick layers, landscapers... sometimes the builders use one drawing and make a hundred of the same thing; often what they make are made-to-order - each house/plan being unique. one-off designs are created to that end. (though they are often reused and altered slightly by each customer.) (and yes, *very* often customers will request changes to the original specs throughout the building process, to the chagrin of the manager. and yes, they pay a lot for those changes, when they're possible.) we use construction terminology but where did they get the terminology? they're just words that apply pretty well to both.

[Mark Whybird]

Build is what the compiler does. The command is even called that. Programmers/Developers/Coders/Stylists just make really, really detailed blueprints so the stupid, literal builder (it's just a computer program, remember) can do the building. StackOverflow: What's wrong with the analogy between software and building construction?[^] My answer to Stackoverflow:Throwaway Prototypes vs Evolutionary - Justifying their use to the business, and preventing their misuse[^]

[Miker88]

Gary Wheeler wrote:

Mark_Wallace wrote:

I think we should use hairdressing terms; that would cure a lot of the big-ego problems

Too late; check out my profile picture here[^].

Software Zen: delete this;

LOL that's funny.

[Member 4608898]

I was first called a software developer in 1996. That is when I first saw it in the job press. Don't remember seeing the term before that but then again, I wasn't looking for a job.

[Member 4608898]

Oh yes, forgot about those. On the engineering front, they have Junior SW Engineer, SW Engineer, Senior SW Engineer, Junior Principal SWE, Principal SWE and Senior Principal SWE and of course the Software Consultant or subcontractor. In some places they just use grade numbers: Engineer 3, Engineer 4 etc. The fancy titles are reserved for documents.

[KP Lee]

I like how you combine examples of how building code isn't anything like constructing physical structures with justifications for calling it building. Graduating as an ME, I know there is a lot that's unknown in the beginning of a building project. There are people who will want anti-gravity engines built into their project and you have to explain to them you don't know how to design that. So there are similar expectations in both fields. The Tacoma Narrows bridge is a famous example of new requirements combined with people not trained to handle the new technology causing disaster. The analogy between building and programming is closer than most developers realize. The only real difference is that bad building design usually shows up right at the start of the project, while programmers are expected to start building before they actually know what they will be building.

[Mark Whybird]

You're right about software dev itself being more like both structural and, even more so, mechanical engineering than most devs think, but it is also much LESS like physical engineering in terms of Project Management than some PMs and managers are led to think. I have a really good friend who trained as a CE and is now in software and we often tease each other about the differences, but in truth there really are similarities. Its really the (project) management that is the issue in terms of falsely perceived similarities. p.s; off topic: your note about anti-gravity houses reminds me... In this part of the world, houses were traditionally (i.e. more than say 60 years ago) usually built up high on sturdy pillars to allow air circulation underneath. Often these days, that underneath space is enclosed for more living space. I was talking once to a builder about costs of having excess posts removed underneath. He said "$300 per post, regardless." I asked what he meant by regardless, and he said that there was always a way to remove any post, and his charge would be $300 per post. I wasn't perfectly serious when I immediately asked him to remove every single one, but if he could have made the house float for that price, it would have been totally worth it :)

[bobc4012]

Disagree - there is a difference. Developers do more than just write code. As a developer, I took marketing requirements, produced a documented design specifications, and supervised coders (in later years, contractors) who just wrote code and unit tested and fixeed any bugs. I also wrote code too for some pieces. Personally, I don't get hung up on people using the words interchangeably. It is usually the new hires/junior people who are "programmers" and as they gain experience they transition into a developer role. BTW, its not to say that coders/programmers can't provide input and make suggestions. Even the less experienced are capable of seeing something that more experienced may have missed.

[etkid84]

at least I like to think that I take a more thoughtful, analytical, disciplined, rigorous, and especially clever approach to doing whatever I do, i.e. write code, develop code, etc.

David

[Simon Lee Shugar]

http://www.yosefk.com/blog/do-call-yourself-a-programmer-and-other-career-advice.html[^] An alternate view to "Don't call yourself a programmer" so far it seems 50/50 to me after reading all of the posts here.

Simon Lee Shugar (Software Developer) www.simonshugar.co.uk "You can be a king or a street sweeper, but everybody dances with the grim reaper" - Robert Alton Harris

[mycroft1]

Don't forget the shampoo girl!

[Graeme_]

I think both are interchangeable and mean pretty much the same thing, both can cover the same multitude of the sins. I would say the difference is that 'computer programmer' was a term which was must more common in the 80's and early nineties, a time when computer fluency was much less common, As such had a lot of negative connotations, images of spectacled geeks sitting in the computer room during their lunchtimes playing on their php while the cool kids played sports in the playground. 'Software Developer' I'd say came into vogue more during the late 90's and 2000's, around the same time that the Internet started to take off. A time when those 'geeks' where becoming billionaires (on paper anyway). And I think this has continued through to today, especially when everyone is fairly computer literate nowadays and becoming a developer is seen as a valid path to stability, success and riches, Basically I'd say they're the same thing. But girls take 'developers' to their high school prom (metaphorically), whereas as popular girls definitely don't date 'programmers' :-)

[Chad3F]

Probably about the same time that Janitors became Custodial Technicians (or maybe that was when Programmers became Software Engineers). It is really just a fancier term that means about the same thing. Of course mileage will vary, depending on what each term means to each person/organization. :wtf: What? Not confused enough? Ohh.. you wanted the Answers office. This is Extra Confusion. You want room 12A. -- Variation of a Monty Python sketch.