Bloatware in "standard" downloads
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I'm a little slow but it finally dawned on me that by having software manufactures like Adobe and Oracle present you with an "update" every second day they are simply giving themselves more opportunities to trip you up and accidentally install McAfee or the Ask toolbar. This is wrong on so many levels. It's untargeted, for a start: When am I, in a million years, going to want the "Ask" toolbar? It's also out of context: what does McAfee antivirus have to do with Adobe? (Or is that a really, really silly question?) or the Ask toolbar have to do with Java? So what can we, as software developers, do about this? Push Silverlight instead of Flash (oh yeah - Microsoft killed Silverlight) or HTML5 (except it's not a Flash replacement). Do we ditch Java? Not likely given it's predominance in the mobile arena. Stage a sit-in at Oracle HQ? Write witty, vitriolic blog posts they won't read? I'm open for ideas.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Hi Chris, Perhaps it's an idea to start a petition and state that bloatware is a serious threat to the industry and political action against it is needed in order to prevent consumers from loosing trust in the industries efforts to stop the spreading of malware and bloatware. Of course the organisers of the petition count on the full support of the mayor software companies such as Google, Apple, Microsoft, Adobe, Norton … :)
With friendly greetings,:) Eric Goedhart
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I often wonder if my AVG antivirus would block the McAfee antivirus if I let it try and install... I would make any antivirus tool I wrote block any rival tool. ;P
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
I thought both McAfee and Symantec were viruses anyway? Certainly I've seen viruses that did less damage and were easier to get rid of...
The universe is composed of electrons, neutrons, protons and......morons. (ThePhantomUpvoter)
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I don't know what you're complaining about. I love the Ask toolbar in my Netscape browser. :)
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Congratulations! You are the one remaining Compuserve user! You win a copy of Windows 2 (no key or disks included)
The universe is composed of electrons, neutrons, protons and......morons. (ThePhantomUpvoter)
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Hi Chris, Perhaps it's an idea to start a petition and state that bloatware is a serious threat to the industry and political action against it is needed in order to prevent consumers from loosing trust in the industries efforts to stop the spreading of malware and bloatware. Of course the organisers of the petition count on the full support of the mayor software companies such as Google, Apple, Microsoft, Adobe, Norton … :)
With friendly greetings,:) Eric Goedhart
For a moment there I actually thought you were serious. I was amazed that such virginal innocence still existed in this day and age. Then I got to the last line and breathed a sigh of relief. Balance to my universe has been restored, sir.
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Quote worthy: I hereby claim this thread in the name of Drivel. Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]? Food
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Congratulations! You are the one remaining Compuserve user! You win a copy of Windows 2 (no key or disks included)
The universe is composed of electrons, neutrons, protons and......morons. (ThePhantomUpvoter)
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I'm a little slow but it finally dawned on me that by having software manufactures like Adobe and Oracle present you with an "update" every second day they are simply giving themselves more opportunities to trip you up and accidentally install McAfee or the Ask toolbar. This is wrong on so many levels. It's untargeted, for a start: When am I, in a million years, going to want the "Ask" toolbar? It's also out of context: what does McAfee antivirus have to do with Adobe? (Or is that a really, really silly question?) or the Ask toolbar have to do with Java? So what can we, as software developers, do about this? Push Silverlight instead of Flash (oh yeah - Microsoft killed Silverlight) or HTML5 (except it's not a Flash replacement). Do we ditch Java? Not likely given it's predominance in the mobile arena. Stage a sit-in at Oracle HQ? Write witty, vitriolic blog posts they won't read? I'm open for ideas.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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I'm a little slow but it finally dawned on me that by having software manufactures like Adobe and Oracle present you with an "update" every second day they are simply giving themselves more opportunities to trip you up and accidentally install McAfee or the Ask toolbar. This is wrong on so many levels. It's untargeted, for a start: When am I, in a million years, going to want the "Ask" toolbar? It's also out of context: what does McAfee antivirus have to do with Adobe? (Or is that a really, really silly question?) or the Ask toolbar have to do with Java? So what can we, as software developers, do about this? Push Silverlight instead of Flash (oh yeah - Microsoft killed Silverlight) or HTML5 (except it's not a Flash replacement). Do we ditch Java? Not likely given it's predominance in the mobile arena. Stage a sit-in at Oracle HQ? Write witty, vitriolic blog posts they won't read? I'm open for ideas.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
We'll just have to grin and bear it I'm afraid because bitching doesn't do any good...they aren't listening to us, the buck is mightier then the customers wants. When Yahoo took over Flickr and they drastically changed the layout users went crazy...they didn't listen in fact they added a toolbar at the top of every Yahoo powered site without the option of hiding and even for paying customers, they say to allow users to access all their sites easier and people are going crazy, are they listening...no! I've never had a problem getting to any of their sites, Yahoo mail used to be the only one now Flickr and the rest I could care less about.
VS2010/Atmel Studio 6.1 ToDo Manager Extension Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.
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Quote:
Windows 2
Is that Windows 2.0? if so you should wait for 2.1 or at least 2.01 to come out. You know the rule.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
Heck! I'm not going to use it! :laugh:
The universe is composed of electrons, neutrons, protons and......morons. (ThePhantomUpvoter)
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I'm a little slow but it finally dawned on me that by having software manufactures like Adobe and Oracle present you with an "update" every second day they are simply giving themselves more opportunities to trip you up and accidentally install McAfee or the Ask toolbar. This is wrong on so many levels. It's untargeted, for a start: When am I, in a million years, going to want the "Ask" toolbar? It's also out of context: what does McAfee antivirus have to do with Adobe? (Or is that a really, really silly question?) or the Ask toolbar have to do with Java? So what can we, as software developers, do about this? Push Silverlight instead of Flash (oh yeah - Microsoft killed Silverlight) or HTML5 (except it's not a Flash replacement). Do we ditch Java? Not likely given it's predominance in the mobile arena. Stage a sit-in at Oracle HQ? Write witty, vitriolic blog posts they won't read? I'm open for ideas.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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The quick hit is to stop it at the auto-update level. The number of update agents running on the average civilians machine is mind numbing. Aside from that, as onerous as it is, we're stuck. These are the just desserts of "free" commercial tools.
The problem is that Java and Flash are the primary routes for exploiting consumer machines. Unless MS relents on only allowing metro apps to be patched by its infrastructure, we're stuck with crappy first party updaters shilling crapware to the uninformed.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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I'm a little slow but it finally dawned on me that by having software manufactures like Adobe and Oracle present you with an "update" every second day they are simply giving themselves more opportunities to trip you up and accidentally install McAfee or the Ask toolbar. This is wrong on so many levels. It's untargeted, for a start: When am I, in a million years, going to want the "Ask" toolbar? It's also out of context: what does McAfee antivirus have to do with Adobe? (Or is that a really, really silly question?) or the Ask toolbar have to do with Java? So what can we, as software developers, do about this? Push Silverlight instead of Flash (oh yeah - Microsoft killed Silverlight) or HTML5 (except it's not a Flash replacement). Do we ditch Java? Not likely given it's predominance in the mobile arena. Stage a sit-in at Oracle HQ? Write witty, vitriolic blog posts they won't read? I'm open for ideas.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
So what can we, as software developers, do about this?
Start open source projects designed to replace these products/technologies, then convince the rest of the world to use them. :rolleyes: Yes, the number of updates are annoying, and more than likely as you say, simply a ruse to get 'click-through' revenue. For IT professionals, multiply the number of updates times the number of workstations, physical and virtual, that you utilize and it seems like a never ending barrage of updates. For me, I found that I could live without the Java runtime and Flash on all but a couple of workstations, thereby greatly reducing the annoying updates and potential drive-by installers.
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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Enlist the help of a small yet very vindictive meteorite and sick it on the wonderful, puppy soft human that made this vile decision? Start the "occupy Oracle" move? I have been an unequivocal protester to Oracle's so called domination of the software landscape for so long, I am now more in line with other famous and jaded anti-establishment protesters that it no longer has meaning and I have lost the keyboard for the keys. I believe that HTML5 will replace flash and I'd like to believe that that will happen sooner rather than later. Java... what I have to say better be left unsaid. I know I've not offered a solution, but you poked at a pain I've felt since forever.
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Quote worthy: I hereby claim this thread in the name of Drivel. Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]? Food
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
I believe that HTML5 will replace flash and I'd like to believe that that will happen sooner rather than later. Java... what I have to say better be left unsaid.
At best this is probably at best a 5 year solution. Even assuming HTML5 does become a feature complete flash replacement the amount of legacy code in flash means we'll still need it for years. Java in the browser has been unneeded for something like a decade now; but last night I ran into a site still using a java chart/visualization plugin. I had to fire up my WTFbrowser, which is only used for crappy obsolete sites (and to copy tables into Excel) to make the page work. I especially loved that neither Opera nor Firefox's (didn't think to try Chrome) error messages informed me of which plugin I'd need to install to make it work. :doh:
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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I'm a little slow but it finally dawned on me that by having software manufactures like Adobe and Oracle present you with an "update" every second day they are simply giving themselves more opportunities to trip you up and accidentally install McAfee or the Ask toolbar. This is wrong on so many levels. It's untargeted, for a start: When am I, in a million years, going to want the "Ask" toolbar? It's also out of context: what does McAfee antivirus have to do with Adobe? (Or is that a really, really silly question?) or the Ask toolbar have to do with Java? So what can we, as software developers, do about this? Push Silverlight instead of Flash (oh yeah - Microsoft killed Silverlight) or HTML5 (except it's not a Flash replacement). Do we ditch Java? Not likely given it's predominance in the mobile arena. Stage a sit-in at Oracle HQ? Write witty, vitriolic blog posts they won't read? I'm open for ideas.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Tell our consumer protection agency?
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I'm a little slow but it finally dawned on me that by having software manufactures like Adobe and Oracle present you with an "update" every second day they are simply giving themselves more opportunities to trip you up and accidentally install McAfee or the Ask toolbar. This is wrong on so many levels. It's untargeted, for a start: When am I, in a million years, going to want the "Ask" toolbar? It's also out of context: what does McAfee antivirus have to do with Adobe? (Or is that a really, really silly question?) or the Ask toolbar have to do with Java? So what can we, as software developers, do about this? Push Silverlight instead of Flash (oh yeah - Microsoft killed Silverlight) or HTML5 (except it's not a Flash replacement). Do we ditch Java? Not likely given it's predominance in the mobile arena. Stage a sit-in at Oracle HQ? Write witty, vitriolic blog posts they won't read? I'm open for ideas.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
I disinfected my PC from Java runtime and Adobe Reader years ago. Never felt need to reinstall them ever since. As for Flash, the thing is all over the internet. No easy way to kill it. It will be evolutionary extinction. For example Netflix and YouTube doesn’t depend on Flash.
There is only one Vera Farmiga and Salma Hayek is her prophet! Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
I believe that HTML5 will replace flash and I'd like to believe that that will happen sooner rather than later. Java... what I have to say better be left unsaid.
At best this is probably at best a 5 year solution. Even assuming HTML5 does become a feature complete flash replacement the amount of legacy code in flash means we'll still need it for years. Java in the browser has been unneeded for something like a decade now; but last night I ran into a site still using a java chart/visualization plugin. I had to fire up my WTFbrowser, which is only used for crappy obsolete sites (and to copy tables into Excel) to make the page work. I especially loved that neither Opera nor Firefox's (didn't think to try Chrome) error messages informed me of which plugin I'd need to install to make it work. :doh:
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
We are in agreement. There is nothing that you and I said that is in conflict. Its a matter of belief and hope on my part that my wishes should happen sooner rather than later. The realities of it are like you said, there are some antiquated websites out there that still use steam engines to power them, and not in a cool steampunk manner.
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Quote worthy: I hereby claim this thread in the name of Drivel. Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]? Food
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Chris Maunder wrote:
what does McAfee antivirus have to do with Adobe
Money. Lots of it. ;) I try to avoid Adobe and Oracle Products if I can. No Flash Player (ok. Flash Player is integrated into Chrome, update through Chrome Updates however), No JRE (why should I need that?) and no Acrobat Reader (also: there Is a PDF Viewer integrated into Chrome).
Honestly, how do the economics of click through BS work?
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Quote worthy: I hereby claim this thread in the name of Drivel. Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]? Food
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I'm a little slow but it finally dawned on me that by having software manufactures like Adobe and Oracle present you with an "update" every second day they are simply giving themselves more opportunities to trip you up and accidentally install McAfee or the Ask toolbar. This is wrong on so many levels. It's untargeted, for a start: When am I, in a million years, going to want the "Ask" toolbar? It's also out of context: what does McAfee antivirus have to do with Adobe? (Or is that a really, really silly question?) or the Ask toolbar have to do with Java? So what can we, as software developers, do about this? Push Silverlight instead of Flash (oh yeah - Microsoft killed Silverlight) or HTML5 (except it's not a Flash replacement). Do we ditch Java? Not likely given it's predominance in the mobile arena. Stage a sit-in at Oracle HQ? Write witty, vitriolic blog posts they won't read? I'm open for ideas.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
It's the same as unfunded government mandates forced upon it's citizens. Thing is, even if the citizen could 'vote' them (either the bloatware or politician) out of (the citizen's PC's) office, they'll find yet another way to to force the unfunded mandate onto the citizen, including having the highest "Ultra" Court (er, software manufacturer) deem it OK to tax the citizen for failure to buy (er, install) it. Aside from repeating history (11 score and 17 years ago...), the only option seems to be that of "Write[ing] witty (or not), vitriolic blog posts they won't read."
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The problem is that Java and Flash are the primary routes for exploiting consumer machines. Unless MS relents on only allowing metro apps to be patched by its infrastructure, we're stuck with crappy first party updaters shilling crapware to the uninformed.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
I think I agree, but might not after I cogitate on it for a couple hours. It's interesting what's happened with the propagation of the "app store" idea from the mobile space. Ubuntu (and presumably several other linux distributions, though I have to concede my own myopia), Apple, Android and the windows phone all have client-side applications that serve as clearing houses for software shopping and upgrades. Even on Windows you have things like Steam (cygwin deserves honorable mention as well) managing distribution of patches and such quite centrally. I really like the model and it occurs to me to wonder if that's not the path of least resistance to solving the problem.
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I think I agree, but might not after I cogitate on it for a couple hours. It's interesting what's happened with the propagation of the "app store" idea from the mobile space. Ubuntu (and presumably several other linux distributions, though I have to concede my own myopia), Apple, Android and the windows phone all have client-side applications that serve as clearing houses for software shopping and upgrades. Even on Windows you have things like Steam (cygwin deserves honorable mention as well) managing distribution of patches and such quite centrally. I really like the model and it occurs to me to wonder if that's not the path of least resistance to solving the problem.
AFAIK *nix package managers predate mobile app stores. I attribute this less to brilliant foresighted design, than to the fact that managing dependencies to build from source was an epic cluster-elephant.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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AFAIK *nix package managers predate mobile app stores. I attribute this less to brilliant foresighted design, than to the fact that managing dependencies to build from source was an epic cluster-elephant.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
Yeah, true. But I think the mechanic of accepting 3rd party software in to the package management system (and blurring the definition rather a lot) really shot into prominence with apple's iPhone app store no?
