Bloatware in "standard" downloads
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Honestly, how do the economics of click through BS work?
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The cost to install the checkbox in the installer is only a few hours of work* once; after that every time some sucker screws up the checkbox you get a pittance in your bank account. Just like with banner ads that only pay out when someone clicks one by accident. :rolleyes: * Unless you're using install shield anyway; but in that case the 3 days it takes is still rounding error compared to the rest of the time spent on the installer. :doh:
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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The cost to install the checkbox in the installer is only a few hours of work* once; after that every time some sucker screws up the checkbox you get a pittance in your bank account. Just like with banner ads that only pay out when someone clicks one by accident. :rolleyes: * Unless you're using install shield anyway; but in that case the 3 days it takes is still rounding error compared to the rest of the time spent on the installer. :doh:
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
So they're literally getting millimes[^] on every rape forced installation? You know, if a small portion of the human ingenuity that is being applied to grab/nab/charge these micro-tariffs was being placed in other sciences, we'd be colonizing other planets now.
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For a moment there I actually thought you were serious. I was amazed that such virginal innocence still existed in this day and age. Then I got to the last line and breathed a sigh of relief. Balance to my universe has been restored, sir.
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Quote worthy: I hereby claim this thread in the name of Drivel. Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]? Food
Hi, It's that little innocence that's left in me that wrote the first lines :-D
With friendly greetings,:) Eric Goedhart
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I'm a little slow but it finally dawned on me that by having software manufactures like Adobe and Oracle present you with an "update" every second day they are simply giving themselves more opportunities to trip you up and accidentally install McAfee or the Ask toolbar. This is wrong on so many levels. It's untargeted, for a start: When am I, in a million years, going to want the "Ask" toolbar? It's also out of context: what does McAfee antivirus have to do with Adobe? (Or is that a really, really silly question?) or the Ask toolbar have to do with Java? So what can we, as software developers, do about this? Push Silverlight instead of Flash (oh yeah - Microsoft killed Silverlight) or HTML5 (except it's not a Flash replacement). Do we ditch Java? Not likely given it's predominance in the mobile arena. Stage a sit-in at Oracle HQ? Write witty, vitriolic blog posts they won't read? I'm open for ideas.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Step 0: A web site with a large number of technical visitors organises the rebellion Step 1: All users download and install the ASK toolbar Step 2: A coordinated use of all members using the toolbar simultaneously and constantly ensures its early demise. I'm sure said site's membership could automate the process quite easily? On the antivirus front a similar approach could bring them to their knees - maybe continually downloading the virus definitions. FIGHT BACK!! (It's nearly as bad as when you buy a new car and the bloody bint (it always seems to be a bint) tries to persuade you to buy the window tinting from them using the phrase "How dark a window tint would you like" rather than "would you like to pay double the price for us to get the windows tinted next door, or do you want to drive round there yourself and save $400"?
MVVM # - I did it My Way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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The quick hit is to stop it at the auto-update level. The number of update agents running on the average civilians machine is mind numbing. Aside from that, as onerous as it is, we're stuck. These are the just desserts of "free" commercial tools.
Wow!!! that is exactly what I do. First thing I do when I get new machine is run thru Services list and look for anything that has word Update in it. Then figure out who it belongs too and then either disable or (or change startup from Automatic to Manual). Second thing I do is replace Host to mask out whole heap of Ad servers. Only Google and dnsResponders are two things that keep resurrecting in service list and I keep killing 'em. I have not seen Ask toolbar on my machine but I've seen it on other colleague's machines and it is CPU cycle stealer ... I would not be surprised if it is eventually discovered as a tool created by some spoofing network designed to extract info out of user PC and send it to ....
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I'm a little slow but it finally dawned on me that by having software manufactures like Adobe and Oracle present you with an "update" every second day they are simply giving themselves more opportunities to trip you up and accidentally install McAfee or the Ask toolbar. This is wrong on so many levels. It's untargeted, for a start: When am I, in a million years, going to want the "Ask" toolbar? It's also out of context: what does McAfee antivirus have to do with Adobe? (Or is that a really, really silly question?) or the Ask toolbar have to do with Java? So what can we, as software developers, do about this? Push Silverlight instead of Flash (oh yeah - Microsoft killed Silverlight) or HTML5 (except it's not a Flash replacement). Do we ditch Java? Not likely given it's predominance in the mobile arena. Stage a sit-in at Oracle HQ? Write witty, vitriolic blog posts they won't read? I'm open for ideas.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
I killed Java on my dev machine as a consequence. Unfortunately I can't kill it on my desktop at home because OpenOffice requires it X| I tried to kill Flash Player as well, but unfortunately IT keeps pushing it to all machines in the network :mad: At home, I tried killing Flash, but there's simply too many web sites using it. So again, it's not a feasible solution. :-( In the meantime I've developed a mental image of Adobe strongly resembling a cockroach. I get a strong urge to literally boot that abominable Adobe Update Dialog every time I see it. Unfortunately I can't afford a new monitor every second day...
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Wow!!! that is exactly what I do. First thing I do when I get new machine is run thru Services list and look for anything that has word Update in it. Then figure out who it belongs too and then either disable or (or change startup from Automatic to Manual). Second thing I do is replace Host to mask out whole heap of Ad servers. Only Google and dnsResponders are two things that keep resurrecting in service list and I keep killing 'em. I have not seen Ask toolbar on my machine but I've seen it on other colleague's machines and it is CPU cycle stealer ... I would not be surprised if it is eventually discovered as a tool created by some spoofing network designed to extract info out of user PC and send it to ....
The problem with stopping the automatic update tasks is that the updates that you already have have serious flaws in them and that not geting the updates leaves you vulnerable to many security risks. I know that the network is down if there is not an Adobe update and a Kodak Home center update prompt when I start my PC. The only 'safe' (and non-bandwidth hogging) method is to delete the offending products and, on the rare occasions that you actually need them, download the latest version (this is easy - there is usually a download prompt displayed), use it and delete again. The slightly less safe method is to ignore the update requests up to the point that you actually want to use the product (this is less safe as you can accidentally run a product which is not patched). My current annoyances are: 1) Every time I start my W7 PC, something called jucheck.exe runs to see if Java needs updating and there seems to be no way of stopping it. 2) When AVG needs updating, it starts the process to update the free version but part way through it asks if you want the free full product (but it isn't free - it is the 30 day trial that is free). Thus far, I have managed to get that one right (but the language used requires a degree in logic to work out which is the radio button for 'free' and which is the radio button for 'free (trial)')> I know several people who have fallen foul of that gotcha. AVG also has an option for a search toolbar (can't remember which one) that is selected by default.
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I killed Java on my dev machine as a consequence. Unfortunately I can't kill it on my desktop at home because OpenOffice requires it X| I tried to kill Flash Player as well, but unfortunately IT keeps pushing it to all machines in the network :mad: At home, I tried killing Flash, but there's simply too many web sites using it. So again, it's not a feasible solution. :-( In the meantime I've developed a mental image of Adobe strongly resembling a cockroach. I get a strong urge to literally boot that abominable Adobe Update Dialog every time I see it. Unfortunately I can't afford a new monitor every second day...
Stefan_Lang wrote:
At home, I tried killing Flash, but there's simply too many web sites using it. So again, it's not a feasible solution
When you find a website using Flash etc (especially one trying to sell you something), use their 'Contact Us' page to email them to say that their use of bad software means that you will not purchase from them again and that you will add them to your blacklist of sites to avoid. Do this everytime to enter the site (even if you have to actually use them to buy something you actually need). Then create the blacklist of sites and use your SEO skills (including copying all of the bad site's meta keywords). Use some short body text e.g. BAD SITE - AVOID LIKE THE PLAGUE so the text seen in the search pages is unequivocal.
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The problem with stopping the automatic update tasks is that the updates that you already have have serious flaws in them and that not geting the updates leaves you vulnerable to many security risks. I know that the network is down if there is not an Adobe update and a Kodak Home center update prompt when I start my PC. The only 'safe' (and non-bandwidth hogging) method is to delete the offending products and, on the rare occasions that you actually need them, download the latest version (this is easy - there is usually a download prompt displayed), use it and delete again. The slightly less safe method is to ignore the update requests up to the point that you actually want to use the product (this is less safe as you can accidentally run a product which is not patched). My current annoyances are: 1) Every time I start my W7 PC, something called jucheck.exe runs to see if Java needs updating and there seems to be no way of stopping it. 2) When AVG needs updating, it starts the process to update the free version but part way through it asks if you want the free full product (but it isn't free - it is the 30 day trial that is free). Thus far, I have managed to get that one right (but the language used requires a degree in logic to work out which is the radio button for 'free' and which is the radio button for 'free (trial)')> I know several people who have fallen foul of that gotcha. AVG also has an option for a search toolbar (can't remember which one) that is selected by default.
When you hear phrase "Security Risk", you also need to ask "From whose point of view?". Great majority of Patches collect and audit information for which only practical use is to send it back to the Vendor. So applying the patch will not make you any more secure but will make vendor certainly less insecure. Yes, I do delete the update exe if necessary. Adobe product was a major PITA in sense that even after it was uninstalled, about 700 to 800mb of clutter was left behind in close to 12-15 deeply nested folders and all folders were security denied even to Admin. Nothing that a techie cannot remedy but having to do it for every folder does waste lot of time. I believe jucheck comes with Oracle and is actually a service with GUID as a name in Services panel. I am not 100% sure of this. If it is being a real pest, use a sofware named "Registrar Registry Manager" to find out its head and tail. You already know what to do with that beast :)
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Wow!!! that is exactly what I do. First thing I do when I get new machine is run thru Services list and look for anything that has word Update in it. Then figure out who it belongs too and then either disable or (or change startup from Automatic to Manual). Second thing I do is replace Host to mask out whole heap of Ad servers. Only Google and dnsResponders are two things that keep resurrecting in service list and I keep killing 'em. I have not seen Ask toolbar on my machine but I've seen it on other colleague's machines and it is CPU cycle stealer ... I would not be surprised if it is eventually discovered as a tool created by some spoofing network designed to extract info out of user PC and send it to ....
How timely a discussion. Yesterday I did a Windows update. I have it configured for notification and manual update. Besides the necessary updates there was an Optional update; a Bing tool bar. MS labeled it as an "update" and I took this to mean that it was already installed on my system. So, in a "senior moment" I checked the "update" for install. This resulted in a new, floating tool bar on my desktop. It only took a few minutes to uninstall it, but I was not pleased at yet another valued update process being used to add bloat ware through ambiguous labeling. I also resent sites that identify themselves as sources for the download of software that you need and then presenting you with multiple, prominently placed, and deceptive download buttons for products unrelated to the searched for product. You might find a download button for the correct product, but it won't be the most featured. All of these practices are deceptive at best and it is a shame that respectable, trusted companies such as MS seem to be adopting them.
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I'm a little slow but it finally dawned on me that by having software manufactures like Adobe and Oracle present you with an "update" every second day they are simply giving themselves more opportunities to trip you up and accidentally install McAfee or the Ask toolbar. This is wrong on so many levels. It's untargeted, for a start: When am I, in a million years, going to want the "Ask" toolbar? It's also out of context: what does McAfee antivirus have to do with Adobe? (Or is that a really, really silly question?) or the Ask toolbar have to do with Java? So what can we, as software developers, do about this? Push Silverlight instead of Flash (oh yeah - Microsoft killed Silverlight) or HTML5 (except it's not a Flash replacement). Do we ditch Java? Not likely given it's predominance in the mobile arena. Stage a sit-in at Oracle HQ? Write witty, vitriolic blog posts they won't read? I'm open for ideas.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
That's one of the reasons I disable "Automatic Updates" on everything except Microsoft products and the reason number one I always read carefully before clicking Next.
CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...
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I'm a little slow but it finally dawned on me that by having software manufactures like Adobe and Oracle present you with an "update" every second day they are simply giving themselves more opportunities to trip you up and accidentally install McAfee or the Ask toolbar. This is wrong on so many levels. It's untargeted, for a start: When am I, in a million years, going to want the "Ask" toolbar? It's also out of context: what does McAfee antivirus have to do with Adobe? (Or is that a really, really silly question?) or the Ask toolbar have to do with Java? So what can we, as software developers, do about this? Push Silverlight instead of Flash (oh yeah - Microsoft killed Silverlight) or HTML5 (except it's not a Flash replacement). Do we ditch Java? Not likely given it's predominance in the mobile arena. Stage a sit-in at Oracle HQ? Write witty, vitriolic blog posts they won't read? I'm open for ideas.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
So what can we, as software developers, do about this?
Shareware and freeware download sites often bundle freely available tools with crapware. They seem to open up the installer and add it. If crapware can be added, why can't bloatware be removed? Oh yeah, that's why.. you have to break the law. Guess its not such a good idea after all.
We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.
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Wow!!! that is exactly what I do. First thing I do when I get new machine is run thru Services list and look for anything that has word Update in it. Then figure out who it belongs too and then either disable or (or change startup from Automatic to Manual). Second thing I do is replace Host to mask out whole heap of Ad servers. Only Google and dnsResponders are two things that keep resurrecting in service list and I keep killing 'em. I have not seen Ask toolbar on my machine but I've seen it on other colleague's machines and it is CPU cycle stealer ... I would not be surprised if it is eventually discovered as a tool created by some spoofing network designed to extract info out of user PC and send it to ....
On the service properties, Got to the Log On Tab. Remember where it is now because you may want to put it back at some point. Choose This Account and put in .\Administrator, then change the password to anything you want, but make sure it is the wrong password. The .\Administrator account cannot be locked, and the service cannot start with a bad password. This is how I keep Windows Update from updating and rebooting my pc all the time. But I also have to go update it manually by undoing my fix. Anyway, you will never have to stop one of those services again.
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On the service properties, Got to the Log On Tab. Remember where it is now because you may want to put it back at some point. Choose This Account and put in .\Administrator, then change the password to anything you want, but make sure it is the wrong password. The .\Administrator account cannot be locked, and the service cannot start with a bad password. This is how I keep Windows Update from updating and rebooting my pc all the time. But I also have to go update it manually by undoing my fix. Anyway, you will never have to stop one of those services again.
Wow!!!! Great example on how to use a Wrong password to do what you want.