Plumbing Help -> This seems the right place
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My contractor, who like most in our area, walked out near the end of the job, left some what I will loosely term as vandalism.* One of these items was putting a kink in the copper tubing that supplies water to refrigerator's ice-maker. So here's the question: The tube mainly runs throug a moist 18" (0.5m) sand-floor crawl space under my house. I drilled through the cabinet and floor in order to have a straight known route from under sink into the crawlspace. Now here's the dilemma: I can fix it by either (1) getting a short piece of copper tubing and connecting it (under the house) to the remaining piece with a 1/4" compression union, or (2) running some 1/4" polyethylene tubing end-to-end. For method (1), I feel more confident about my compressions fittings being brass-on-copper, but one fitting will be under the house and out of sight (making future leaks unnoticed). For method two, I'll only have two connections, both in the kitchen level where they can be observed, but the brass-on-polyethylene is not as secure in the long term (?) but I'll see the problems and can address them easily. Both of these can be done by a single person - running the full length in copper is difficult in that work area and would take help, including shouting through a R19 fiberglass insulated floor. Any experience/suggestions? * may his private parts dry up and burn whilst he looks on helplessly.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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My contractor, who like most in our area, walked out near the end of the job, left some what I will loosely term as vandalism.* One of these items was putting a kink in the copper tubing that supplies water to refrigerator's ice-maker. So here's the question: The tube mainly runs throug a moist 18" (0.5m) sand-floor crawl space under my house. I drilled through the cabinet and floor in order to have a straight known route from under sink into the crawlspace. Now here's the dilemma: I can fix it by either (1) getting a short piece of copper tubing and connecting it (under the house) to the remaining piece with a 1/4" compression union, or (2) running some 1/4" polyethylene tubing end-to-end. For method (1), I feel more confident about my compressions fittings being brass-on-copper, but one fitting will be under the house and out of sight (making future leaks unnoticed). For method two, I'll only have two connections, both in the kitchen level where they can be observed, but the brass-on-polyethylene is not as secure in the long term (?) but I'll see the problems and can address them easily. Both of these can be done by a single person - running the full length in copper is difficult in that work area and would take help, including shouting through a R19 fiberglass insulated floor. Any experience/suggestions? * may his private parts dry up and burn whilst he looks on helplessly.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
Go with the copper and compression fittings and the job will be done and no problems in future! I would also recommend filling hole going through floor with caulk or wood putty or whatever depending on finish of floor!
VS2010/Atmel Studio 6.1 ToDo Manager Extension You're about to exceed the limitations of my medication.
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My contractor, who like most in our area, walked out near the end of the job, left some what I will loosely term as vandalism.* One of these items was putting a kink in the copper tubing that supplies water to refrigerator's ice-maker. So here's the question: The tube mainly runs throug a moist 18" (0.5m) sand-floor crawl space under my house. I drilled through the cabinet and floor in order to have a straight known route from under sink into the crawlspace. Now here's the dilemma: I can fix it by either (1) getting a short piece of copper tubing and connecting it (under the house) to the remaining piece with a 1/4" compression union, or (2) running some 1/4" polyethylene tubing end-to-end. For method (1), I feel more confident about my compressions fittings being brass-on-copper, but one fitting will be under the house and out of sight (making future leaks unnoticed). For method two, I'll only have two connections, both in the kitchen level where they can be observed, but the brass-on-polyethylene is not as secure in the long term (?) but I'll see the problems and can address them easily. Both of these can be done by a single person - running the full length in copper is difficult in that work area and would take help, including shouting through a R19 fiberglass insulated floor. Any experience/suggestions? * may his private parts dry up and burn whilst he looks on helplessly.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
I am no plumber but in a similar situation I have seen a plumber use a polymer pipe.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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Go with the copper and compression fittings and the job will be done and no problems in future! I would also recommend filling hole going through floor with caulk or wood putty or whatever depending on finish of floor!
VS2010/Atmel Studio 6.1 ToDo Manager Extension You're about to exceed the limitations of my medication.
Thanks - I need some opinions. I already worked out a strategy to check for leaks while I'm still under the house. That strategy is actually what made the decision difficult as both option were viable. Hole-filling: difficult location (under a cabinet through a 1" hole) but I'll do it w/caulk. I'm spending my evening fixing stuff. The worst thing? My horror story isn't unique. I will bill the contractor for all my time and materials (for all the work that was in the contract). There will either be prompt payment or a prompt lawsuit. Interestingly, in his parting email, he said he left me touch-up paint and I can handle the little jobs myself. What made him assume I work for free? Anyway - the last questions are rhetorical as I can go on-and-on far too easily.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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I am no plumber but in a similar situation I have seen a plumber use a polymer pipe.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
I've learned that just because a plumber does it doesn't make it a great idea. Example: my gas range was connected to the natural gas line by an un-clad plastic tubing! It'll probably be alright (no one goes behind the range) but it is a gas line.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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My contractor, who like most in our area, walked out near the end of the job, left some what I will loosely term as vandalism.* One of these items was putting a kink in the copper tubing that supplies water to refrigerator's ice-maker. So here's the question: The tube mainly runs throug a moist 18" (0.5m) sand-floor crawl space under my house. I drilled through the cabinet and floor in order to have a straight known route from under sink into the crawlspace. Now here's the dilemma: I can fix it by either (1) getting a short piece of copper tubing and connecting it (under the house) to the remaining piece with a 1/4" compression union, or (2) running some 1/4" polyethylene tubing end-to-end. For method (1), I feel more confident about my compressions fittings being brass-on-copper, but one fitting will be under the house and out of sight (making future leaks unnoticed). For method two, I'll only have two connections, both in the kitchen level where they can be observed, but the brass-on-polyethylene is not as secure in the long term (?) but I'll see the problems and can address them easily. Both of these can be done by a single person - running the full length in copper is difficult in that work area and would take help, including shouting through a R19 fiberglass insulated floor. Any experience/suggestions? * may his private parts dry up and burn whilst he looks on helplessly.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
Go with the plastic (Hep2O) fittings and pipework from a NAMED BRAND. In my experience the quality, sealing ability and longevity are as good as copper. In fact, my water company is replacing all its 'under tarmac' pipework with plastic. Also, plastic has more give and is therefore more frost resistant. Tip though: Don't be tempted to cut the plastic pipe to length with a hacksaw/jr hacksaw - use the PROPER tool for cutting plastic pipe. Most times I've seen the fittings fail it's because of a 'rough' hacksawn pipeend going into a fitting rather than the right-angled sharp cut from the proper tool. http://www.hep2o.com/[^]
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Go with the plastic (Hep2O) fittings and pipework from a NAMED BRAND. In my experience the quality, sealing ability and longevity are as good as copper. In fact, my water company is replacing all its 'under tarmac' pipework with plastic. Also, plastic has more give and is therefore more frost resistant. Tip though: Don't be tempted to cut the plastic pipe to length with a hacksaw/jr hacksaw - use the PROPER tool for cutting plastic pipe. Most times I've seen the fittings fail it's because of a 'rough' hacksawn pipeend going into a fitting rather than the right-angled sharp cut from the proper tool. http://www.hep2o.com/[^]
My plan was to cut the tubing with the tubing-cutter I'd have used to cut the copper. Remember, this is 1/4" OD (ca. 6mm) tubing and if I don't use the tubing cutter I'll use a sharp knife. There seems to only be one brand offered for this translucent white polyethylene tubing - and much to my dismay, it's made in China. I'll make due. Luckily, as I've 25' and need ca. 15', I'll leave enough slack to be sure I can redo the fittings. Thanks - now I've votes for both options. Gives me the confidence to know I am perplexed for good cause.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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My plan was to cut the tubing with the tubing-cutter I'd have used to cut the copper. Remember, this is 1/4" OD (ca. 6mm) tubing and if I don't use the tubing cutter I'll use a sharp knife. There seems to only be one brand offered for this translucent white polyethylene tubing - and much to my dismay, it's made in China. I'll make due. Luckily, as I've 25' and need ca. 15', I'll leave enough slack to be sure I can redo the fittings. Thanks - now I've votes for both options. Gives me the confidence to know I am perplexed for good cause.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos wrote:
much to my dismay, it's made in China
Why should that be a cause for dismay? They probably also made 85% of your car (the bits that don't need to be repaired/replaced every five minutes), your TV, your bicycle/motorbike, and most of your computer (unless you're an apple user, in which case they made all of it). Poor quality stuff from China is only poor quality because it's made to specs provided by westerners who only care about making as much profit as possible.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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My contractor, who like most in our area, walked out near the end of the job, left some what I will loosely term as vandalism.* One of these items was putting a kink in the copper tubing that supplies water to refrigerator's ice-maker. So here's the question: The tube mainly runs throug a moist 18" (0.5m) sand-floor crawl space under my house. I drilled through the cabinet and floor in order to have a straight known route from under sink into the crawlspace. Now here's the dilemma: I can fix it by either (1) getting a short piece of copper tubing and connecting it (under the house) to the remaining piece with a 1/4" compression union, or (2) running some 1/4" polyethylene tubing end-to-end. For method (1), I feel more confident about my compressions fittings being brass-on-copper, but one fitting will be under the house and out of sight (making future leaks unnoticed). For method two, I'll only have two connections, both in the kitchen level where they can be observed, but the brass-on-polyethylene is not as secure in the long term (?) but I'll see the problems and can address them easily. Both of these can be done by a single person - running the full length in copper is difficult in that work area and would take help, including shouting through a R19 fiberglass insulated floor. Any experience/suggestions? * may his private parts dry up and burn whilst he looks on helplessly.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
A lot depends on the climate where you live. That translucent plastic is fairly resistant to splitting due to freezing, but in the heat prevalent where I live, it tends to become brittle and crack in a just a couple of years. A good compression connection can be made using either the plastic or copper - just be sure to cut the plastic square ( I use a razor blade ), and use the brass insert that should come with the fitting. Under the house it will not be exposed to a lot of heat, wherever you live, so the end-to-end run using plastic is the option I'd choose, given your choices. For my own house, though, I'd redo the entire run in copper, or extend the CPVC piping under the house up to a floor valve behind the fridge and use plastic from there. But that's just me... Go with the plastic; it will be fine, I'm sure. :)
Will Rogers never met me.
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W∴ Balboos wrote:
much to my dismay, it's made in China
Why should that be a cause for dismay? They probably also made 85% of your car (the bits that don't need to be repaired/replaced every five minutes), your TV, your bicycle/motorbike, and most of your computer (unless you're an apple user, in which case they made all of it). Poor quality stuff from China is only poor quality because it's made to specs provided by westerners who only care about making as much profit as possible.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Yeah - it's always the fault of the Western Devils! - How could I have missed that? That's why the Chinese poison their own people (and others outside of China) with deliberately tainted baby food. Western goods of comparatively lower quality? I believe you'll find that (Chinese) counterfeits are to blame. I don't know where you get your made-in-China stuff, but it's typically flimsy and poorly made: a slave labor force tend not to put their heart in their work. And (if you look it up) the term slave labor is not far from how so many of these factories are run, the workers being held as virtual prisoners. That is the fault of their government**:** the Communists (ironically) put money above all else!
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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A lot depends on the climate where you live. That translucent plastic is fairly resistant to splitting due to freezing, but in the heat prevalent where I live, it tends to become brittle and crack in a just a couple of years. A good compression connection can be made using either the plastic or copper - just be sure to cut the plastic square ( I use a razor blade ), and use the brass insert that should come with the fitting. Under the house it will not be exposed to a lot of heat, wherever you live, so the end-to-end run using plastic is the option I'd choose, given your choices. For my own house, though, I'd redo the entire run in copper, or extend the CPVC piping under the house up to a floor valve behind the fridge and use plastic from there. But that's just me... Go with the plastic; it will be fine, I'm sure. :)
Will Rogers never met me.
This poll of sorts is leaning toward the polyethylene tubing. A local plumbing supply recommended I replace the line with the plastic rather than couple the copper. They cater to the trade and close early, so I had my wife stop by to pick up some plastic ferrules - they gave them to her for free and threw in some brass inserts. Definitely a different kind of business attitude than Home Depot!
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
-
My contractor, who like most in our area, walked out near the end of the job, left some what I will loosely term as vandalism.* One of these items was putting a kink in the copper tubing that supplies water to refrigerator's ice-maker. So here's the question: The tube mainly runs throug a moist 18" (0.5m) sand-floor crawl space under my house. I drilled through the cabinet and floor in order to have a straight known route from under sink into the crawlspace. Now here's the dilemma: I can fix it by either (1) getting a short piece of copper tubing and connecting it (under the house) to the remaining piece with a 1/4" compression union, or (2) running some 1/4" polyethylene tubing end-to-end. For method (1), I feel more confident about my compressions fittings being brass-on-copper, but one fitting will be under the house and out of sight (making future leaks unnoticed). For method two, I'll only have two connections, both in the kitchen level where they can be observed, but the brass-on-polyethylene is not as secure in the long term (?) but I'll see the problems and can address them easily. Both of these can be done by a single person - running the full length in copper is difficult in that work area and would take help, including shouting through a R19 fiberglass insulated floor. Any experience/suggestions? * may his private parts dry up and burn whilst he looks on helplessly.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
Use the compression brass fittings. I always use solder, but I am a real man, but for you girlies the compression fittings are OK. :)
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This poll of sorts is leaning toward the polyethylene tubing. A local plumbing supply recommended I replace the line with the plastic rather than couple the copper. They cater to the trade and close early, so I had my wife stop by to pick up some plastic ferrules - they gave them to her for free and threw in some brass inserts. Definitely a different kind of business attitude than Home Depot!
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
Good move! But I still like Home Depot. I've got a slab of concrete to pour and finish, and it was the only place in the area where I could find a float and a fresno to do the job. :-D
Will Rogers never met me.
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Yeah - it's always the fault of the Western Devils! - How could I have missed that? That's why the Chinese poison their own people (and others outside of China) with deliberately tainted baby food. Western goods of comparatively lower quality? I believe you'll find that (Chinese) counterfeits are to blame. I don't know where you get your made-in-China stuff, but it's typically flimsy and poorly made: a slave labor force tend not to put their heart in their work. And (if you look it up) the term slave labor is not far from how so many of these factories are run, the workers being held as virtual prisoners. That is the fault of their government**:** the Communists (ironically) put money above all else!
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
My wife is Chinese, born and bred in Shanghai, and I've spent about a year there (various regions) myself. I believe that that qualifies my statements somewhat more than yours, which appear to be based on the scare-tactic propaganda used in the West (which, of course, never produces cr@p or knock-off products -- because it's cheaper to get them made in China/Korea/the Philippines). I have to say that I'm heartily sick of hearing all the slave-labour cr@p. Wages are lower in China because they haven't has all the greed-induced rampant inflation that the West has brought upon itself in the last 60 years. And, incidentally, most of the world's millionaires are Chinese.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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My wife is Chinese, born and bred in Shanghai, and I've spent about a year there (various regions) myself. I believe that that qualifies my statements somewhat more than yours, which appear to be based on the scare-tactic propaganda used in the West (which, of course, never produces cr@p or knock-off products -- because it's cheaper to get them made in China/Korea/the Philippines). I have to say that I'm heartily sick of hearing all the slave-labour cr@p. Wages are lower in China because they haven't has all the greed-induced rampant inflation that the West has brought upon itself in the last 60 years. And, incidentally, most of the world's millionaires are Chinese.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Mark_Wallace wrote:
My wife is Chinese, born and bred in Shanghai, and I've spent about a year there (various regions) myself. I believe that that qualifies my statements somewhat more than yours, . . .
On the contrary - you clearly are blinded be either her 'old country' bias. That, and your own (recurrent) personal anti-west political agenda. The poison baby formula wasn't even the first event, although confined to China, itself: pets died in the USA (and elsewhere) because the "fortified" pet-food with plastic (more correctly, monomeric precursors) to give it an apparently high protein value. Lead based pigments in (exported) children's crayons. On and on . . . ho hum . . . let's not worry about those things . . . there's always an excuse to be had . . . or simply just blame the west. That's worked for decades.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Mark_Wallace wrote:
My wife is Chinese, born and bred in Shanghai, and I've spent about a year there (various regions) myself. I believe that that qualifies my statements somewhat more than yours, . . .
On the contrary - you clearly are blinded be either her 'old country' bias. That, and your own (recurrent) personal anti-west political agenda. The poison baby formula wasn't even the first event, although confined to China, itself: pets died in the USA (and elsewhere) because the "fortified" pet-food with plastic (more correctly, monomeric precursors) to give it an apparently high protein value. Lead based pigments in (exported) children's crayons. On and on . . . ho hum . . . let's not worry about those things . . . there's always an excuse to be had . . . or simply just blame the west. That's worked for decades.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
Keep reading the propaganda. You've got no need to know anything about the country and its people. God knows that no US company has ever done anything at all, ever, that even stood the remotest possibilities of a chance of hurting US citizens -- or citizens of any other country, for that matter -- but if, by some terrible accident they did (because they would never, ever do it on purpose or for profit, obviously), we wouldn't want to be bothered by the details of that, would we? It's far more important and realistic to hold up details of individual @rseholes in other countries as examples of the entire populace of the countries.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Keep reading the propaganda. You've got no need to know anything about the country and its people. God knows that no US company has ever done anything at all, ever, that even stood the remotest possibilities of a chance of hurting US citizens -- or citizens of any other country, for that matter -- but if, by some terrible accident they did (because they would never, ever do it on purpose or for profit, obviously), we wouldn't want to be bothered by the details of that, would we? It's far more important and realistic to hold up details of individual @rseholes in other countries as examples of the entire populace of the countries.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Mark_Wallace wrote:
God knows that no US Chinese company or government agency has ever done anything at all, ever, that even stood the remotest possibilities of a chance of hurting US their own citizens and innocent humans throughout the world.
Only three years? Why in the world did you ever leave that Asian Utopia ? ? ?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Mark_Wallace wrote:
God knows that no US Chinese company or government agency has ever done anything at all, ever, that even stood the remotest possibilities of a chance of hurting US their own citizens and innocent humans throughout the world.
Only three years? Why in the world did you ever leave that Asian Utopia ? ? ?
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
You are talking about China, but you know nothing about China. Oh, wait. This is the Internet. Carry on. You're in the right place, with plenty of company.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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You are talking about China, but you know nothing about China. Oh, wait. This is the Internet. Carry on. You're in the right place, with plenty of company.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Mark_Wallace wrote:
You are talking about China, but you know nothing about China.
Following your usual style, you know nothing about what I know - but don't hesitate to draw conclusions from your own fantasies . . . I will not dignify your biased, self important, and all-knowing attitude with the description 'pompous'. The rest of your message fits you perfectly - you must hear/read it quite often.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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Use the compression brass fittings. I always use solder, but I am a real man, but for you girlies the compression fittings are OK. :)
I haven't sweated a joint (silver solder, no less) in roughly three decades. Considering where the work is to be done and that I no longer have the equipment to do such work (i.e., my glass-blowing torch, &etc), I'll just have to pass on doing it the manly way. Last night, in honor of the definitive answers I received, I drank a large cup of white wine with dinner, watched some TV, and went to sleep (passed out?). It was good.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
