Apprenticeships, on the job starting point
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OriginalGriff wrote:
- Coffee and Tea making 101
FTFY
Microsoft ... the only place where VARIANT_TRUE != true
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Tea is for sissies as Sea is for tities It's true, think about it.
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Well my employer are looking at taking on a couple of apprentices in my team, (Microsoft based development, .net/Sql Server) and I just got asked to think about an initial six month pathway for them. No, I have no experience in training or teaching... My initial thoughts are along the lines of; Introduction to the Company Software Development Fundamentals Web Development Fundamentals Database Development Fundamentals OOP Fundamentals Unit Testing Fundamentals ...along with tasks aligning to each of these, (internal only, potentially throwaway, developments), so we could undertake code reviews, peer reviews possibly some face to face discussions to assess understanding. Given the wealth of experience you guys have, does anyone have any thoughts or opinions in this area, perhaps a bit more detail or blatantly obvious things I'm missing in my initial panic at a task completely out of my comfort zone? Any and all idea's appreciated, cheers!
Rhys "If you ever start taking things too seriously, just remember that we are talking monkeys on an organic spaceship flying through the Universe"
Given the fact that I am on Apprenticeship for three years now I might be able to help you out. 1. Networking basics. They will use SQL servers, WPF services, TCP communication and so one - Understanding the Basic concepts of Networking will help them to understand such things easier. I work in Application development, but I am still glad that I learnt the basic concepts of Networking (Subnets, IPv4, IPv6 and so on). Also teach them the basic Network protocols - Http, SSL, TCP & UDP are important basics for every developer. 2. Do not start with Object orientation too early. Start the programming blocks with easy C programs, and show them the limitation of structs - After that, you can make a smooth change from C to C#, introducing classes and stuff like that. 2.1 Even though OOP seems obvious to experienced developers, newbies often have problems until it makes *click* - Some get it faster, some need a bit more time, and some never quite get it. Use the third group to write testcases. Also, add the writing of unnit tests right after they know the fundamentals, and repeat it after every later module (Unit testing specific to webservices, webapps, databases etc.) 3. After the OOP introduction, teach them how to store data in a simple text file - Go over to multiple text files to show them the limitation of textfiles. Afterwards you can make a smooth transition to databases. Start with writing an ERD, and afterwards teach them the SQL basics (SELECT, INSERT, UPDATE, ALTER, JOIN). 4. After they know the DB basics, teach them the webdevelopment things. Best practice here is to do something where they may reuse classes from a client application. Short example for a programming job / Trainning schedule: 1. -> Write an address management software. Address shall be held in memory (Language: pure ANSI-C). ----> OOP Introduction 2. -> Write the same application in C#. Addresses shall still be held in memory. 3. -> Change the application of 2. to store the addresses into a textfile. 4. -> Write an Item management software for a store. Data is saved to multiple textfiles. ----> Networking introduction -- -----> Show them examples of TCP communication. Example: Write a simple chat application (Example[^]) ----> Database introduction 5. -> Rewrite the app from 4. to store the data into a database. 6. -> Write a web store tha
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Well my employer are looking at taking on a couple of apprentices in my team, (Microsoft based development, .net/Sql Server) and I just got asked to think about an initial six month pathway for them. No, I have no experience in training or teaching... My initial thoughts are along the lines of; Introduction to the Company Software Development Fundamentals Web Development Fundamentals Database Development Fundamentals OOP Fundamentals Unit Testing Fundamentals ...along with tasks aligning to each of these, (internal only, potentially throwaway, developments), so we could undertake code reviews, peer reviews possibly some face to face discussions to assess understanding. Given the wealth of experience you guys have, does anyone have any thoughts or opinions in this area, perhaps a bit more detail or blatantly obvious things I'm missing in my initial panic at a task completely out of my comfort zone? Any and all idea's appreciated, cheers!
Rhys "If you ever start taking things too seriously, just remember that we are talking monkeys on an organic spaceship flying through the Universe"
Would it be nice to include a small project towards the end of this apprenticeship, which puts to practice all the "fundamentals" they have learnt. Perhaps a set of small tools useful for your company can be built.
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Well my employer are looking at taking on a couple of apprentices in my team, (Microsoft based development, .net/Sql Server) and I just got asked to think about an initial six month pathway for them. No, I have no experience in training or teaching... My initial thoughts are along the lines of; Introduction to the Company Software Development Fundamentals Web Development Fundamentals Database Development Fundamentals OOP Fundamentals Unit Testing Fundamentals ...along with tasks aligning to each of these, (internal only, potentially throwaway, developments), so we could undertake code reviews, peer reviews possibly some face to face discussions to assess understanding. Given the wealth of experience you guys have, does anyone have any thoughts or opinions in this area, perhaps a bit more detail or blatantly obvious things I'm missing in my initial panic at a task completely out of my comfort zone? Any and all idea's appreciated, cheers!
Rhys "If you ever start taking things too seriously, just remember that we are talking monkeys on an organic spaceship flying through the Universe"
Are you working at a school? What background do these apprentices have? Because I believe all subjects except introduction to the company should have been covered already in school. My list would be: Introduction to the Company Company workflow Company applications and the usage of them. Company coding standards. Company applications internal workflow and object structure. Company database(s) Or have I misunderstood everything?
Be excellent to each other. And... PARTY ON, DUDES! Abraham Lincoln
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I prepared some exquisitely high grade Pekoe tea (purchased during my visit to Nuwara Eliya[^]), which I further flavoured with a small stick of cinnamon. It was very satisfying (my wife asked if there was more, but unfortunately that specific tea was over). I could prepare a "kadak chai" or a "Mumbai masala chai" by adding in an assortment of spices. I've a number of different teas at any given time in the kitchen. Flavouring tea works perfectly, but you flavour coffee with tooshie-mocha-caramel-latte with a touch of derrière aroma, and it's simply not coffee anymore. Crap, I can't even imagine how can some people pay to ruin an otherwise good drink. Unfortunately, this is the kind of stuff that seem to sell fast in the "coffee shops". I do occasionally drink coffee, but I think I prefer tea for its versatility. :)
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
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I prepared some exquisitely high grade Pekoe tea (purchased during my visit to Nuwara Eliya[^]), which I further flavoured with a small stick of cinnamon. It was very satisfying (my wife asked if there was more, but unfortunately that specific tea was over). I could prepare a "kadak chai" or a "Mumbai masala chai" by adding in an assortment of spices. I've a number of different teas at any given time in the kitchen. Flavouring tea works perfectly, but you flavour coffee with tooshie-mocha-caramel-latte with a touch of derrière aroma, and it's simply not coffee anymore. Crap, I can't even imagine how can some people pay to ruin an otherwise good drink. Unfortunately, this is the kind of stuff that seem to sell fast in the "coffee shops". I do occasionally drink coffee, but I think I prefer tea for its versatility. :)
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
-
Well my employer are looking at taking on a couple of apprentices in my team, (Microsoft based development, .net/Sql Server) and I just got asked to think about an initial six month pathway for them. No, I have no experience in training or teaching... My initial thoughts are along the lines of; Introduction to the Company Software Development Fundamentals Web Development Fundamentals Database Development Fundamentals OOP Fundamentals Unit Testing Fundamentals ...along with tasks aligning to each of these, (internal only, potentially throwaway, developments), so we could undertake code reviews, peer reviews possibly some face to face discussions to assess understanding. Given the wealth of experience you guys have, does anyone have any thoughts or opinions in this area, perhaps a bit more detail or blatantly obvious things I'm missing in my initial panic at a task completely out of my comfort zone? Any and all idea's appreciated, cheers!
Rhys "If you ever start taking things too seriously, just remember that we are talking monkeys on an organic spaceship flying through the Universe"
We did it in the past with at first a simple throwaway project to let them get known to the framework and the usage of our libraries. - It starts with some basic things with the framework. The usage of control mechanism like loops, if else, etc. - Adding Logging - Adding ErrorHandling - Adding DataAccess - Adding Networking - etc. After that we give them some small bug or extension for a productive project. They get an issue from our ticketing backend and receive some other input so they know where to start This involves: - Making certain that the application runs fine on their development machine - Letting them test the application (a bit playing around with the debugger and so on) to get acknowledged to the code base - Pointing them to the direction where and how they should start solving the issue. - We give them some time trying to solve it. They are free to ask for guidance when they are stuck. In regular intervals we ask them about their progress and provide further help if needed. - If the bug is fixed or the extension working, the code gets reviewed and corrected with explanation why something was wrong - If everything is fine: Show them how to publish it to the test server etc, involving the QA and finally publishing to productive system. - Rinse & Repeat with a new issue Things I've noticed: - Give them time to learn - Don't let them feel lost! Ask them about their progress ("Fine" isn't progress ;)). Let them show you what they've done and correct them if they did something wrong somewhere.
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Well my employer are looking at taking on a couple of apprentices in my team, (Microsoft based development, .net/Sql Server) and I just got asked to think about an initial six month pathway for them. No, I have no experience in training or teaching... My initial thoughts are along the lines of; Introduction to the Company Software Development Fundamentals Web Development Fundamentals Database Development Fundamentals OOP Fundamentals Unit Testing Fundamentals ...along with tasks aligning to each of these, (internal only, potentially throwaway, developments), so we could undertake code reviews, peer reviews possibly some face to face discussions to assess understanding. Given the wealth of experience you guys have, does anyone have any thoughts or opinions in this area, perhaps a bit more detail or blatantly obvious things I'm missing in my initial panic at a task completely out of my comfort zone? Any and all idea's appreciated, cheers!
Rhys "If you ever start taking things too seriously, just remember that we are talking monkeys on an organic spaceship flying through the Universe"
Make sure the other team members know to give them time as well. Perhaps rotate them around. Give them words of encouragement. I've seen at first hand what can happen to a developer's morale when they've been viciously cut down.
If there is one thing more dangerous than getting between a bear and her cubs it's getting between my wife and her chocolate.
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I prepared some exquisitely high grade Pekoe tea (purchased during my visit to Nuwara Eliya[^]), which I further flavoured with a small stick of cinnamon. It was very satisfying (my wife asked if there was more, but unfortunately that specific tea was over). I could prepare a "kadak chai" or a "Mumbai masala chai" by adding in an assortment of spices. I've a number of different teas at any given time in the kitchen. Flavouring tea works perfectly, but you flavour coffee with tooshie-mocha-caramel-latte with a touch of derrière aroma, and it's simply not coffee anymore. Crap, I can't even imagine how can some people pay to ruin an otherwise good drink. Unfortunately, this is the kind of stuff that seem to sell fast in the "coffee shops". I do occasionally drink coffee, but I think I prefer tea for its versatility. :)
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
-
Are you working at a school? What background do these apprentices have? Because I believe all subjects except introduction to the company should have been covered already in school. My list would be: Introduction to the Company Company workflow Company applications and the usage of them. Company coding standards. Company applications internal workflow and object structure. Company database(s) Or have I misunderstood everything?
Be excellent to each other. And... PARTY ON, DUDES! Abraham Lincoln
No, not working in a school, and I'm trying to find out about background but as yet haven't been given a clear direction. I do however agree that all the subjects should have been covered but being in the UK, (and not having that background information), who knows... At the moment, and in general, my thoughts are to not be too company specific as I'd like to be able to give them the opportunity to think on their feet and apply what they know and what they learn regardless of the environment. I think you're right in they would need to know why some things get done certain ways, why we have coding standards, (and certainly what they are as learning to apply them would be appropriate), and yes having a company focus in those area's definitely gives context which is a great aid to learning.
Rhys "If you ever start taking things too seriously, just remember that we are talking monkeys on an organic spaceship flying through the Universe"
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Well my employer are looking at taking on a couple of apprentices in my team, (Microsoft based development, .net/Sql Server) and I just got asked to think about an initial six month pathway for them. No, I have no experience in training or teaching... My initial thoughts are along the lines of; Introduction to the Company Software Development Fundamentals Web Development Fundamentals Database Development Fundamentals OOP Fundamentals Unit Testing Fundamentals ...along with tasks aligning to each of these, (internal only, potentially throwaway, developments), so we could undertake code reviews, peer reviews possibly some face to face discussions to assess understanding. Given the wealth of experience you guys have, does anyone have any thoughts or opinions in this area, perhaps a bit more detail or blatantly obvious things I'm missing in my initial panic at a task completely out of my comfort zone? Any and all idea's appreciated, cheers!
Rhys "If you ever start taking things too seriously, just remember that we are talking monkeys on an organic spaceship flying through the Universe"
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Hm strange, when i entered my current company (my first job) they gave me few books and leave me alone to improve. I think your way of training is better. Don't forget to introduce the compiler, ways of debugging and so on. One of the mistakes of the unis are skipping very important part of programing - memory management. I wish you good luck :)
Microsoft ... the only place where VARIANT_TRUE != true
Was this a "first job" or an apprenticeship ? those two could be similar, but are most of the time different especially when the apprenticeship is done while going to school.
I'd rather be phishing!
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Was this a "first job" or an apprenticeship ? those two could be similar, but are most of the time different especially when the apprenticeship is done while going to school.
I'd rather be phishing!
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You missed a couple of things: 1) The importance of BACON 2) Coffee making 101 3) Go to supplies and get a new supply of letter "E"s. These are essential tasks for an apprentice! Kevin Wilson described the job role quite well: YouTube (NSFW)[^]
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Shouldn't 3 be the any key? Works especially well on a tablet :-)
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Shouldn't 3 be the any key? Works especially well on a tablet :-)
:-D
This message is manufactured from fully recyclable noughts and ones. To recycle this message, please separate into two tidy piles, and take them to your nearest local recycling centre. Please note that in some areas noughts are always replaced with zeros by law, and many facilities cannot recycle zeroes - in this case, please bury them in your back garden and water frequently.
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Well my employer are looking at taking on a couple of apprentices in my team, (Microsoft based development, .net/Sql Server) and I just got asked to think about an initial six month pathway for them. No, I have no experience in training or teaching... My initial thoughts are along the lines of; Introduction to the Company Software Development Fundamentals Web Development Fundamentals Database Development Fundamentals OOP Fundamentals Unit Testing Fundamentals ...along with tasks aligning to each of these, (internal only, potentially throwaway, developments), so we could undertake code reviews, peer reviews possibly some face to face discussions to assess understanding. Given the wealth of experience you guys have, does anyone have any thoughts or opinions in this area, perhaps a bit more detail or blatantly obvious things I'm missing in my initial panic at a task completely out of my comfort zone? Any and all idea's appreciated, cheers!
Rhys "If you ever start taking things too seriously, just remember that we are talking monkeys on an organic spaceship flying through the Universe"
What we do these days is "learning by doing" - i.e. we give a new developer a real, but low priority task and help them complete it. Then
GOTO 10, and after a few iterations they should be able to start contributing. -
Well my employer are looking at taking on a couple of apprentices in my team, (Microsoft based development, .net/Sql Server) and I just got asked to think about an initial six month pathway for them. No, I have no experience in training or teaching... My initial thoughts are along the lines of; Introduction to the Company Software Development Fundamentals Web Development Fundamentals Database Development Fundamentals OOP Fundamentals Unit Testing Fundamentals ...along with tasks aligning to each of these, (internal only, potentially throwaway, developments), so we could undertake code reviews, peer reviews possibly some face to face discussions to assess understanding. Given the wealth of experience you guys have, does anyone have any thoughts or opinions in this area, perhaps a bit more detail or blatantly obvious things I'm missing in my initial panic at a task completely out of my comfort zone? Any and all idea's appreciated, cheers!
Rhys "If you ever start taking things too seriously, just remember that we are talking monkeys on an organic spaceship flying through the Universe"
I would expect that your apprentices have some background in programming already. Otherwise, you are really going to have your hands full. It might be like fitting a round peg into a limaçon shaped hole. I always heard that schooling and theory are nice but you don't really learn about programming until you start a real job. I guess I would focus on things that are not taught in school. How we do things here * sw dev process * dev tools * roles, permissions * docs, support * the "maybe someday" dream list Why we do it that way * CMM growth and planning * economics and reality of business Why everybody else is different * innovation * skills vs cost Your idea for some mini internal projects is a good one. Some favorites are: phone list, bug tracker, time & expense tracker. Code reviews are a great way of tuning-up a new developer really quickly. I've seen a lot of developers started-off as testers so they see the evil that can come from mistakes (get them thinking of how to avoid anti-patterns) and organize their thoughts into test plans.
