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  3. Please fire the person in Microsoft that thought the charms thing is ok

Please fire the person in Microsoft that thought the charms thing is ok

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  • K kiLLe_512

    Try them on a touch screen.

    T Offline
    T Offline
    Tim Magraw
    wrote on last edited by
    #23

    Try finding a budget holder who'll put a touch screen on a server. Most of them are too cheap. Although I can accept that using a computer with a touch screen over remote desktop might work. Who here has a touch screen on the computer they use to remote admin their server? I keep wishing you could use Kinect for PC the same as a touch screen and with the same gestures. Could be fun. I could sit in front of a 40" screen and wave my arms about. :laugh:

    K U 2 Replies Last reply
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    • L Lost User

      One assumes Windows-C does not work?

      MVVM # - I did it My Way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')

      T Offline
      T Offline
      Tim Magraw
      wrote on last edited by
      #24

      Yep it does.

      1 Reply Last reply
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      • T Tim Magraw

        Try finding a budget holder who'll put a touch screen on a server. Most of them are too cheap. Although I can accept that using a computer with a touch screen over remote desktop might work. Who here has a touch screen on the computer they use to remote admin their server? I keep wishing you could use Kinect for PC the same as a touch screen and with the same gestures. Could be fun. I could sit in front of a 40" screen and wave my arms about. :laugh:

        K Offline
        K Offline
        kiLLe_512
        wrote on last edited by
        #25

        I can agree on that sentiment, but the attack was launched at the general UI design. Servers should stay servers. No way around that. However, seriously, try Windows 8.1 on a tablet/touchscreen. I find myself reaching for my desktop pc's screen more often than not these days, then disappointingly realizing that it doesn't support touch. Don't diss MS on this. Trust them, respond to them, give them time. They do listen, at least, unlike Apple etc. They brought back Start. They released RTM early. They will get there.

        1 Reply Last reply
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        • X xavier morera

          I have a quick test that the person that thought of, designed or approved the Windows 8 charms should take. Test: make them sit down in a computer, open terminal server and get into a Windows Server 2012 machine. Now ask them to try to show the charms bar instantly with the mouse 10 out of 10 times. It is not possible or you would have to be a ninja to do it consistently. If they fail, fire them! (Did Ballmer take the test?) Most people are not ninjas therefore it is not a nice user experience. Start button was way better. People need immediate reaction for an action, not guessing which one is the exact pixel to stand on top of. Make it simple, have a reaction for an action. Still want to get rid of the start button? Make a little triangle in the corner to fire it up. (You can also fix the screen with the apps but that is a separate topic) Make this the action that as a reaction Nonsense… You can see with pictures here: http://www.xaviermorera.com/2013/10/please-fire-the-person-in-microsoft-that-thought-the-charms-thing-is-ok/[^]

          My new toy: www.cloudclipx.com -- If I have 8 hours to chop down a tree, I spend 6 sharpening my ax!

          D Offline
          D Offline
          DerekT P
          wrote on last edited by
          #26

          Doh! You're complaining because the charms bar is too hard to open?? I'm complaining because it's too damned EASY to open. I work in VS most of the day, using a laptop with a couple of screens. I have a mouse as well as my laptop's mousepad. I prefer to use the mouse but when I need to do some straight coding, I move the mouse well out of the way of the laptop keyboard, and this simple movement (that I've been making for years without problem) now results in the pointer going to the bottom right of screen and the bloody charms thing popping up, HIDING what I'm working on. I then need to alt-tab to get it back. But instinctively while my right hand is moving the mouse, my left is already starting to type, so I lose characters, or send them to the wrong app, or.. aagghhhhhhhh. This probably happens to me 30 - 40 times a day and it's driving me up the wall. Not charms, but a curse. :( :mad: :wtf:

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          • X xavier morera

            I have a quick test that the person that thought of, designed or approved the Windows 8 charms should take. Test: make them sit down in a computer, open terminal server and get into a Windows Server 2012 machine. Now ask them to try to show the charms bar instantly with the mouse 10 out of 10 times. It is not possible or you would have to be a ninja to do it consistently. If they fail, fire them! (Did Ballmer take the test?) Most people are not ninjas therefore it is not a nice user experience. Start button was way better. People need immediate reaction for an action, not guessing which one is the exact pixel to stand on top of. Make it simple, have a reaction for an action. Still want to get rid of the start button? Make a little triangle in the corner to fire it up. (You can also fix the screen with the apps but that is a separate topic) Make this the action that as a reaction Nonsense… You can see with pictures here: http://www.xaviermorera.com/2013/10/please-fire-the-person-in-microsoft-that-thought-the-charms-thing-is-ok/[^]

            My new toy: www.cloudclipx.com -- If I have 8 hours to chop down a tree, I spend 6 sharpening my ax!

            B Offline
            B Offline
            Bob G Beechey
            wrote on last edited by
            #27

            I assume you have a keyboard. Windows-C gets you to the charms fast. I can find no use-case for going back to anything as clunky as the Start Menu or any new pretenders such as Start-88. I have arranged the Start Page to suit my usage eg most frequently required on the left - sensible groupings - eliminating links to unused programs. Also put frequently used desktop programs as shortcuts on desktop. The beauty of Windows has always been its configurability. For rarely used programs, such as regedit, I resort to the Windows-R Run option. I spend 90% of my time in (on?) the desktop but find no issue in dropping into the start page if need be - the transition is so quick and fluid - especially using wheel-mouse (this was even the case with an old laptop with only 512MB of RAM). Other people mention the (shouting) caps menus in VS and Office. They do look bad but these are easily fixed and converted to lowercase and all is well. I have used every version of Windows since Windows 1. Favourites 3.1, 98, XP, 7, and 8. (By the way I also use Mac OSX, IOS7, and Android).

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • X xavier morera

              I have a quick test that the person that thought of, designed or approved the Windows 8 charms should take. Test: make them sit down in a computer, open terminal server and get into a Windows Server 2012 machine. Now ask them to try to show the charms bar instantly with the mouse 10 out of 10 times. It is not possible or you would have to be a ninja to do it consistently. If they fail, fire them! (Did Ballmer take the test?) Most people are not ninjas therefore it is not a nice user experience. Start button was way better. People need immediate reaction for an action, not guessing which one is the exact pixel to stand on top of. Make it simple, have a reaction for an action. Still want to get rid of the start button? Make a little triangle in the corner to fire it up. (You can also fix the screen with the apps but that is a separate topic) Make this the action that as a reaction Nonsense… You can see with pictures here: http://www.xaviermorera.com/2013/10/please-fire-the-person-in-microsoft-that-thought-the-charms-thing-is-ok/[^]

              My new toy: www.cloudclipx.com -- If I have 8 hours to chop down a tree, I spend 6 sharpening my ax!

              M Offline
              M Offline
              Marc A Brown
              wrote on last edited by
              #28

              Why do it with the mouse when you can hit Win-C so easily?

              N 1 Reply Last reply
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              • N Nicholas Marty

                It's not only VS... MS Office has also begun shouting at me...

                F Offline
                F Offline
                Frank W Wu
                wrote on last edited by
                #29

                Windows 8 UI is targeting to consumer market; and MS is fascinating to port games on it. The UI does not make sense for most business apps.

                W 1 Reply Last reply
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                • M Marc A Brown

                  Why do it with the mouse when you can hit Win-C so easily?

                  N Offline
                  N Offline
                  Nicholas Marty
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #30

                  what? a new Hotkey-Combination? I will have to change my own bindings then... :sigh: should I ever upgrade to Windows 8 ;P

                  M 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • F Frank W Wu

                    Windows 8 UI is targeting to consumer market; and MS is fascinating to port games on it. The UI does not make sense for most business apps.

                    W Offline
                    W Offline
                    William Putman
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #31

                    Completely agree. Charms does not work very good on desktops without a touchscreen. Most Microsoft consumers used desktops, so why alienate those people. I have to say it, Charms is not charming.

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • N Nicholas Marty

                      It's not only VS... MS Office has also begun shouting at me...

                      A Offline
                      A Offline
                      agolddog
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #32

                      Also Outlook 2013, when you have the reading pane enabled. Instead of showing you the content of the email message (what Outlook is presumably all about), shows you a huge header about the sender and their status. Going back to Rajesh's post, I've long held that software which can't get the little things right likely does not get the big things right. I think Win 8 qualifies. Take an OS which worked perfrectly fine for the majority of non-touchscreen users, and force them to pretend their device is a touchscreen. Grrrr!

                      A 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • X xavier morera

                        I have a quick test that the person that thought of, designed or approved the Windows 8 charms should take. Test: make them sit down in a computer, open terminal server and get into a Windows Server 2012 machine. Now ask them to try to show the charms bar instantly with the mouse 10 out of 10 times. It is not possible or you would have to be a ninja to do it consistently. If they fail, fire them! (Did Ballmer take the test?) Most people are not ninjas therefore it is not a nice user experience. Start button was way better. People need immediate reaction for an action, not guessing which one is the exact pixel to stand on top of. Make it simple, have a reaction for an action. Still want to get rid of the start button? Make a little triangle in the corner to fire it up. (You can also fix the screen with the apps but that is a separate topic) Make this the action that as a reaction Nonsense… You can see with pictures here: http://www.xaviermorera.com/2013/10/please-fire-the-person-in-microsoft-that-thought-the-charms-thing-is-ok/[^]

                        My new toy: www.cloudclipx.com -- If I have 8 hours to chop down a tree, I spend 6 sharpening my ax!

                        R Offline
                        R Offline
                        RafagaX
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #33

                        I thinks the charms bar is ok, what's not ok is that they make it the only place where you can turn off your computer, I think they should have put these options under the User Image/Name on the Start Page, just below Log Out.

                        CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...

                        M A 2 Replies Last reply
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                        • X xavier morera

                          I have a quick test that the person that thought of, designed or approved the Windows 8 charms should take. Test: make them sit down in a computer, open terminal server and get into a Windows Server 2012 machine. Now ask them to try to show the charms bar instantly with the mouse 10 out of 10 times. It is not possible or you would have to be a ninja to do it consistently. If they fail, fire them! (Did Ballmer take the test?) Most people are not ninjas therefore it is not a nice user experience. Start button was way better. People need immediate reaction for an action, not guessing which one is the exact pixel to stand on top of. Make it simple, have a reaction for an action. Still want to get rid of the start button? Make a little triangle in the corner to fire it up. (You can also fix the screen with the apps but that is a separate topic) Make this the action that as a reaction Nonsense… You can see with pictures here: http://www.xaviermorera.com/2013/10/please-fire-the-person-in-microsoft-that-thought-the-charms-thing-is-ok/[^]

                          My new toy: www.cloudclipx.com -- If I have 8 hours to chop down a tree, I spend 6 sharpening my ax!

                          A Offline
                          A Offline
                          alissa914
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #34

                          You can also hit WINDOWS+C. I have a keyboard with this in there that brings up the charms bar every time. You can also hit CONTROL+SHIFT+ESC for the Windows Key as you probably also know.

                          X 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • N Nicholas Marty

                            what? a new Hotkey-Combination? I will have to change my own bindings then... :sigh: should I ever upgrade to Windows 8 ;P

                            M Offline
                            M Offline
                            Marc A Brown
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #35

                            Nicholas Marty wrote:

                            a new Hotkey-Combination? I will have to change my own bindings then... :sigh:

                            Either that or get a trackpad that supports Win8 gestures so that you can use it to swipe the charm bar into view (I have one of these for my desktop machine).

                            Nicholas Marty wrote:

                            should I ever upgrade to Windows 8

                            You should! :-D

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • R RafagaX

                              I thinks the charms bar is ok, what's not ok is that they make it the only place where you can turn off your computer, I think they should have put these options under the User Image/Name on the Start Page, just below Log Out.

                              CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...

                              M Offline
                              M Offline
                              Marc A Brown
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #36

                              RafagaX wrote:

                              I think they should have put these options under the User Image/Name on the Start Page, just below Log Out.

                              Agreed.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • D DerekT P

                                Doh! You're complaining because the charms bar is too hard to open?? I'm complaining because it's too damned EASY to open. I work in VS most of the day, using a laptop with a couple of screens. I have a mouse as well as my laptop's mousepad. I prefer to use the mouse but when I need to do some straight coding, I move the mouse well out of the way of the laptop keyboard, and this simple movement (that I've been making for years without problem) now results in the pointer going to the bottom right of screen and the bloody charms thing popping up, HIDING what I'm working on. I then need to alt-tab to get it back. But instinctively while my right hand is moving the mouse, my left is already starting to type, so I lose characters, or send them to the wrong app, or.. aagghhhhhhhh. This probably happens to me 30 - 40 times a day and it's driving me up the wall. Not charms, but a curse. :( :mad: :wtf:

                                J Offline
                                J Offline
                                jwbasham
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #37

                                Have you ever considered one of those programs like Start8, Power8, Start Menu Reviver, etc? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Start_Menu_replacements_for_Windows_8[^] has a bunch of freeware listings of programs of this sort. One common theme is turning off the charms, restoring the start menu to a Win7 state (yet still using win8, course with the fully functional start menu back you don't even need the charms), and most will bypass the Metro startup, going into the Windows desktop at startup. I got sick of the whole thing early, but didn't have a Windows 7 install CD. However, for the sake of staying legal, a friend suggested this option to me.

                                1 Reply Last reply
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                                • K kiLLe_512

                                  If you don't know what app you want to use, please turn off the computer and go home. Especially if you installed it.

                                  T Offline
                                  T Offline
                                  Trajan McGill
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #38

                                  Really? Any serious dev is going to have massive numbers of applications installed, including tools you use a few times a year or less. Some of these tools are renamed occasionally when new versions are released. Example: I still go looking for "Ethereal" half the time I want Wireshark. Do you really want to pause and have to think what the actual name of some auxiliary app that came with your IDE or DBMS is called, or the diagnostics tool that you rarely need? Or, that thing you installed and meant to try out a while back but then got busy and therefore have never even used yet? I have hundreds of applications across several entire domains of computer use on my system, and while 95% of the time I just hit "start" and begin typing, the lack of being able to create a categorized, hierarchical menu system is a substantive loss for being able to find things in that other 5% of the time when navigating would be faster than pausing and extensively scanning one's own brain. What is the point in removing the ability to browse by task? In fact, where this is even more helpful is if the computer has more than one user. Does my wife know the names of all the things I have installed on one of our home computers? No, but she might be able to find something she needs if she can explore the menu. Scanning a flat screen of 200 tiles will just make her eyes glaze over. I actually like Windows 8 in most ways, and most everyone trembling in fear over upgrading from Windows 7 is over-anxious with little good reason. But this is nevertheless a legitimate gripe.

                                  M 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • X xavier morera

                                    Right on the money. The problem with the full screen start menu is that it is horrible. It shows hundreds of things you don't need and can't really group in a nice way. Oh well, I covered it here: http://www.xaviermorera.com/2013/07/windows-8-folders/[^] The problem with Microsoft is that the "me too" strategy worked so well in the past, that they are trying it now again but taking really really bad decisions.

                                    Present anytime, anywhere: www.ccview.me Clipboard in the cloud: www.cloudclipx.com -- If I have 8 hours to chop down a tree, I spend 6 sharpening my ax! And I mostly do in CodeProject and Pluralsight!

                                    M Offline
                                    M Offline
                                    MikeRobert
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #39

                                    Not sure what you mean you can't group in a nice way. It's very easy to group programs, I use task based grouping such as Programming, Publishing, CADD, Utilities, etc. Have to admit 8.1 does this better since you don't have to delete all the programs from the Start Screen, you have to add what you want while everything is added to the "Apps" screen (not the Start Screen) It's much faster for me to hit the Windows button and select a program from the start screen than to hit Start>Programs>Company X> Application. Of course for my most used programs everything is on the Task Bar for even quicker access.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • T Trajan McGill

                                      Really? Any serious dev is going to have massive numbers of applications installed, including tools you use a few times a year or less. Some of these tools are renamed occasionally when new versions are released. Example: I still go looking for "Ethereal" half the time I want Wireshark. Do you really want to pause and have to think what the actual name of some auxiliary app that came with your IDE or DBMS is called, or the diagnostics tool that you rarely need? Or, that thing you installed and meant to try out a while back but then got busy and therefore have never even used yet? I have hundreds of applications across several entire domains of computer use on my system, and while 95% of the time I just hit "start" and begin typing, the lack of being able to create a categorized, hierarchical menu system is a substantive loss for being able to find things in that other 5% of the time when navigating would be faster than pausing and extensively scanning one's own brain. What is the point in removing the ability to browse by task? In fact, where this is even more helpful is if the computer has more than one user. Does my wife know the names of all the things I have installed on one of our home computers? No, but she might be able to find something she needs if she can explore the menu. Scanning a flat screen of 200 tiles will just make her eyes glaze over. I actually like Windows 8 in most ways, and most everyone trembling in fear over upgrading from Windows 7 is over-anxious with little good reason. But this is nevertheless a legitimate gripe.

                                      M Offline
                                      M Offline
                                      MikeRobert
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #40

                                      Easy fix for seeing your old start menu listing without having to use 3rd party apps, create a shortcut on the Start Screen to C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs and you'll see a folder view of all the programs listed in a treeview format.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • R RafagaX

                                        I thinks the charms bar is ok, what's not ok is that they make it the only place where you can turn off your computer, I think they should have put these options under the User Image/Name on the Start Page, just below Log Out.

                                        CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...

                                        A Offline
                                        A Offline
                                        Andre Pereira
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #41

                                        I agree. It's not like there is a shortage of ways to turn off the computer, but since options in the charms are hidden it lacks discoverability. Once you know where everything is, it's a joy going through several menus without clutter.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • X xavier morera

                                          I have a quick test that the person that thought of, designed or approved the Windows 8 charms should take. Test: make them sit down in a computer, open terminal server and get into a Windows Server 2012 machine. Now ask them to try to show the charms bar instantly with the mouse 10 out of 10 times. It is not possible or you would have to be a ninja to do it consistently. If they fail, fire them! (Did Ballmer take the test?) Most people are not ninjas therefore it is not a nice user experience. Start button was way better. People need immediate reaction for an action, not guessing which one is the exact pixel to stand on top of. Make it simple, have a reaction for an action. Still want to get rid of the start button? Make a little triangle in the corner to fire it up. (You can also fix the screen with the apps but that is a separate topic) Make this the action that as a reaction Nonsense… You can see with pictures here: http://www.xaviermorera.com/2013/10/please-fire-the-person-in-microsoft-that-thought-the-charms-thing-is-ok/[^]

                                          My new toy: www.cloudclipx.com -- If I have 8 hours to chop down a tree, I spend 6 sharpening my ax!

                                          A Offline
                                          A Offline
                                          Andre Pereira
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #42

                                          Are you talking about using the mouse to trigger the charms in a NOT fullscreen VNC of a Windows 8 machine? Otherwise, I don't get it.

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