Please fire the person in Microsoft that thought the charms thing is ok
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I have a quick test that the person that thought of, designed or approved the Windows 8 charms should take. Test: make them sit down in a computer, open terminal server and get into a Windows Server 2012 machine. Now ask them to try to show the charms bar instantly with the mouse 10 out of 10 times. It is not possible or you would have to be a ninja to do it consistently. If they fail, fire them! (Did Ballmer take the test?) Most people are not ninjas therefore it is not a nice user experience. Start button was way better. People need immediate reaction for an action, not guessing which one is the exact pixel to stand on top of. Make it simple, have a reaction for an action. Still want to get rid of the start button? Make a little triangle in the corner to fire it up. (You can also fix the screen with the apps but that is a separate topic) Make this the action that as a reaction Nonsense… You can see with pictures here: http://www.xaviermorera.com/2013/10/please-fire-the-person-in-microsoft-that-thought-the-charms-thing-is-ok/[^]
My new toy: www.cloudclipx.com -- If I have 8 hours to chop down a tree, I spend 6 sharpening my ax!
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what? a new Hotkey-Combination? I will have to change my own bindings then... :sigh: should I ever upgrade to Windows 8 ;P
Nicholas Marty wrote:
a new Hotkey-Combination? I will have to change my own bindings then... :sigh:
Either that or get a trackpad that supports Win8 gestures so that you can use it to swipe the charm bar into view (I have one of these for my desktop machine).
Nicholas Marty wrote:
should I ever upgrade to Windows 8
You should! :-D
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I thinks the charms bar is ok, what's not ok is that they make it the only place where you can turn off your computer, I think they should have put these options under the User Image/Name on the Start Page, just below Log Out.
CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...
RafagaX wrote:
I think they should have put these options under the User Image/Name on the Start Page, just below Log Out.
Agreed.
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Doh! You're complaining because the charms bar is too hard to open?? I'm complaining because it's too damned EASY to open. I work in VS most of the day, using a laptop with a couple of screens. I have a mouse as well as my laptop's mousepad. I prefer to use the mouse but when I need to do some straight coding, I move the mouse well out of the way of the laptop keyboard, and this simple movement (that I've been making for years without problem) now results in the pointer going to the bottom right of screen and the bloody charms thing popping up, HIDING what I'm working on. I then need to alt-tab to get it back. But instinctively while my right hand is moving the mouse, my left is already starting to type, so I lose characters, or send them to the wrong app, or.. aagghhhhhhhh. This probably happens to me 30 - 40 times a day and it's driving me up the wall. Not charms, but a curse. :( :mad: :wtf:
Have you ever considered one of those programs like Start8, Power8, Start Menu Reviver, etc? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Start_Menu_replacements_for_Windows_8[^] has a bunch of freeware listings of programs of this sort. One common theme is turning off the charms, restoring the start menu to a Win7 state (yet still using win8, course with the fully functional start menu back you don't even need the charms), and most will bypass the Metro startup, going into the Windows desktop at startup. I got sick of the whole thing early, but didn't have a Windows 7 install CD. However, for the sake of staying legal, a friend suggested this option to me.
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If you don't know what app you want to use, please turn off the computer and go home. Especially if you installed it.
Really? Any serious dev is going to have massive numbers of applications installed, including tools you use a few times a year or less. Some of these tools are renamed occasionally when new versions are released. Example: I still go looking for "Ethereal" half the time I want Wireshark. Do you really want to pause and have to think what the actual name of some auxiliary app that came with your IDE or DBMS is called, or the diagnostics tool that you rarely need? Or, that thing you installed and meant to try out a while back but then got busy and therefore have never even used yet? I have hundreds of applications across several entire domains of computer use on my system, and while 95% of the time I just hit "start" and begin typing, the lack of being able to create a categorized, hierarchical menu system is a substantive loss for being able to find things in that other 5% of the time when navigating would be faster than pausing and extensively scanning one's own brain. What is the point in removing the ability to browse by task? In fact, where this is even more helpful is if the computer has more than one user. Does my wife know the names of all the things I have installed on one of our home computers? No, but she might be able to find something she needs if she can explore the menu. Scanning a flat screen of 200 tiles will just make her eyes glaze over. I actually like Windows 8 in most ways, and most everyone trembling in fear over upgrading from Windows 7 is over-anxious with little good reason. But this is nevertheless a legitimate gripe.
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Right on the money. The problem with the full screen start menu is that it is horrible. It shows hundreds of things you don't need and can't really group in a nice way. Oh well, I covered it here: http://www.xaviermorera.com/2013/07/windows-8-folders/[^] The problem with Microsoft is that the "me too" strategy worked so well in the past, that they are trying it now again but taking really really bad decisions.
Present anytime, anywhere: www.ccview.me Clipboard in the cloud: www.cloudclipx.com -- If I have 8 hours to chop down a tree, I spend 6 sharpening my ax! And I mostly do in CodeProject and Pluralsight!
Not sure what you mean you can't group in a nice way. It's very easy to group programs, I use task based grouping such as Programming, Publishing, CADD, Utilities, etc. Have to admit 8.1 does this better since you don't have to delete all the programs from the Start Screen, you have to add what you want while everything is added to the "Apps" screen (not the Start Screen) It's much faster for me to hit the Windows button and select a program from the start screen than to hit Start>Programs>Company X> Application. Of course for my most used programs everything is on the Task Bar for even quicker access.
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Really? Any serious dev is going to have massive numbers of applications installed, including tools you use a few times a year or less. Some of these tools are renamed occasionally when new versions are released. Example: I still go looking for "Ethereal" half the time I want Wireshark. Do you really want to pause and have to think what the actual name of some auxiliary app that came with your IDE or DBMS is called, or the diagnostics tool that you rarely need? Or, that thing you installed and meant to try out a while back but then got busy and therefore have never even used yet? I have hundreds of applications across several entire domains of computer use on my system, and while 95% of the time I just hit "start" and begin typing, the lack of being able to create a categorized, hierarchical menu system is a substantive loss for being able to find things in that other 5% of the time when navigating would be faster than pausing and extensively scanning one's own brain. What is the point in removing the ability to browse by task? In fact, where this is even more helpful is if the computer has more than one user. Does my wife know the names of all the things I have installed on one of our home computers? No, but she might be able to find something she needs if she can explore the menu. Scanning a flat screen of 200 tiles will just make her eyes glaze over. I actually like Windows 8 in most ways, and most everyone trembling in fear over upgrading from Windows 7 is over-anxious with little good reason. But this is nevertheless a legitimate gripe.
Easy fix for seeing your old start menu listing without having to use 3rd party apps, create a shortcut on the Start Screen to C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs and you'll see a folder view of all the programs listed in a treeview format.
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I thinks the charms bar is ok, what's not ok is that they make it the only place where you can turn off your computer, I think they should have put these options under the User Image/Name on the Start Page, just below Log Out.
CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...
I agree. It's not like there is a shortage of ways to turn off the computer, but since options in the charms are hidden it lacks discoverability. Once you know where everything is, it's a joy going through several menus without clutter.
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I have a quick test that the person that thought of, designed or approved the Windows 8 charms should take. Test: make them sit down in a computer, open terminal server and get into a Windows Server 2012 machine. Now ask them to try to show the charms bar instantly with the mouse 10 out of 10 times. It is not possible or you would have to be a ninja to do it consistently. If they fail, fire them! (Did Ballmer take the test?) Most people are not ninjas therefore it is not a nice user experience. Start button was way better. People need immediate reaction for an action, not guessing which one is the exact pixel to stand on top of. Make it simple, have a reaction for an action. Still want to get rid of the start button? Make a little triangle in the corner to fire it up. (You can also fix the screen with the apps but that is a separate topic) Make this the action that as a reaction Nonsense… You can see with pictures here: http://www.xaviermorera.com/2013/10/please-fire-the-person-in-microsoft-that-thought-the-charms-thing-is-ok/[^]
My new toy: www.cloudclipx.com -- If I have 8 hours to chop down a tree, I spend 6 sharpening my ax!
Are you talking about using the mouse to trigger the charms in a NOT fullscreen VNC of a Windows 8 machine? Otherwise, I don't get it.
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Try finding a budget holder who'll put a touch screen on a server. Most of them are too cheap. Although I can accept that using a computer with a touch screen over remote desktop might work. Who here has a touch screen on the computer they use to remote admin their server? I keep wishing you could use Kinect for PC the same as a touch screen and with the same gestures. Could be fun. I could sit in front of a 40" screen and wave my arms about. :laugh:
I was hoping Leap Motion would fill the gap here, but unfortunately it doesn't. It doesn't map 1:1 dimensionally, so it's tough just to figure where to wave and actually hit the right side of the screen. Personally, I think they should shoot whoever thought the "Modern UI" had and reason to be placed on a server. By "shoot" I mean with a paintball gun, not real bullets. What a stupid decision.
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I have a quick test that the person that thought of, designed or approved the Windows 8 charms should take. Test: make them sit down in a computer, open terminal server and get into a Windows Server 2012 machine. Now ask them to try to show the charms bar instantly with the mouse 10 out of 10 times. It is not possible or you would have to be a ninja to do it consistently. If they fail, fire them! (Did Ballmer take the test?) Most people are not ninjas therefore it is not a nice user experience. Start button was way better. People need immediate reaction for an action, not guessing which one is the exact pixel to stand on top of. Make it simple, have a reaction for an action. Still want to get rid of the start button? Make a little triangle in the corner to fire it up. (You can also fix the screen with the apps but that is a separate topic) Make this the action that as a reaction Nonsense… You can see with pictures here: http://www.xaviermorera.com/2013/10/please-fire-the-person-in-microsoft-that-thought-the-charms-thing-is-ok/[^]
My new toy: www.cloudclipx.com -- If I have 8 hours to chop down a tree, I spend 6 sharpening my ax!
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I have a quick test that the person that thought of, designed or approved the Windows 8 charms should take. Test: make them sit down in a computer, open terminal server and get into a Windows Server 2012 machine. Now ask them to try to show the charms bar instantly with the mouse 10 out of 10 times. It is not possible or you would have to be a ninja to do it consistently. If they fail, fire them! (Did Ballmer take the test?) Most people are not ninjas therefore it is not a nice user experience. Start button was way better. People need immediate reaction for an action, not guessing which one is the exact pixel to stand on top of. Make it simple, have a reaction for an action. Still want to get rid of the start button? Make a little triangle in the corner to fire it up. (You can also fix the screen with the apps but that is a separate topic) Make this the action that as a reaction Nonsense… You can see with pictures here: http://www.xaviermorera.com/2013/10/please-fire-the-person-in-microsoft-that-thought-the-charms-thing-is-ok/[^]
My new toy: www.cloudclipx.com -- If I have 8 hours to chop down a tree, I spend 6 sharpening my ax!
I love the charms bar - can't use windows without it. When people ask me how to use windows 8 I tell them move your mouse to the corner. The corners is all you have to remember. When people ask me how to use any other OS I'm on the phone for hours trying to explain simple concepts. I use a chainsaw for chopping down trees. This lack of future tools may explain to you why windows 8 is the way windows 8 is. When the chainsaw came out, people that use axes got confused and resisted to something they had to learn. Greg Colborne.
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Doh! You're complaining because the charms bar is too hard to open?? I'm complaining because it's too damned EASY to open. I work in VS most of the day, using a laptop with a couple of screens. I have a mouse as well as my laptop's mousepad. I prefer to use the mouse but when I need to do some straight coding, I move the mouse well out of the way of the laptop keyboard, and this simple movement (that I've been making for years without problem) now results in the pointer going to the bottom right of screen and the bloody charms thing popping up, HIDING what I'm working on. I then need to alt-tab to get it back. But instinctively while my right hand is moving the mouse, my left is already starting to type, so I lose characters, or send them to the wrong app, or.. aagghhhhhhhh. This probably happens to me 30 - 40 times a day and it's driving me up the wall. Not charms, but a curse. :( :mad: :wtf:
So many replies on "why not press Windows + C"! Basically it does help, but I guess those that answered this did not read my original thread. I am running inside a VM on terminal desktop (this is another story and I have no way around it). So let me answer: Windows + C does NOT work. Why? Because if I press it the command goes to the outer machine, not the Windows Server 2012 that I have RDPd to and it is the one that I need to show the charms bar. :)
Present anytime, anywhere: www.ccview.me Clipboard in the cloud: www.cloudclipx.com -- If I have 8 hours to chop down a tree, I spend 6 sharpening my ax! And I mostly do in CodeProject and Pluralsight!
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I love the charms bar - can't use windows without it. When people ask me how to use windows 8 I tell them move your mouse to the corner. The corners is all you have to remember. When people ask me how to use any other OS I'm on the phone for hours trying to explain simple concepts. I use a chainsaw for chopping down trees. This lack of future tools may explain to you why windows 8 is the way windows 8 is. When the chainsaw came out, people that use axes got confused and resisted to something they had to learn. Greg Colborne.
Use in RDP :) There is no exact corner. You will move your mouse out of the corner 9 out of 10 times!
Present anytime, anywhere: www.ccview.me Clipboard in the cloud: www.cloudclipx.com -- If I have 8 hours to chop down a tree, I spend 6 sharpening my ax! And I mostly do in CodeProject and Pluralsight!
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Are you talking about using the mouse to trigger the charms in a NOT fullscreen VNC of a Windows 8 machine? Otherwise, I don't get it.
Yes, non full screen on Windows Server 2012. Which brings me to the next point, who will use Windows Server 2012 in a tablet? hahaha Why not keep it as Win 2k8?
Present anytime, anywhere: www.ccview.me Clipboard in the cloud: www.cloudclipx.com -- If I have 8 hours to chop down a tree, I spend 6 sharpening my ax! And I mostly do in CodeProject and Pluralsight!
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You can also hit WINDOWS+C. I have a keyboard with this in there that brings up the charms bar every time. You can also hit CONTROL+SHIFT+ESC for the Windows Key as you probably also know.
Yes I know. Try RDP within a VM (company restriction) and you will see how it does not work.
Present anytime, anywhere: www.ccview.me Clipboard in the cloud: www.cloudclipx.com -- If I have 8 hours to chop down a tree, I spend 6 sharpening my ax! And I mostly do in CodeProject and Pluralsight!
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Right on the money. The problem with the full screen start menu is that it is horrible. It shows hundreds of things you don't need and can't really group in a nice way. Oh well, I covered it here: http://www.xaviermorera.com/2013/07/windows-8-folders/[^] The problem with Microsoft is that the "me too" strategy worked so well in the past, that they are trying it now again but taking really really bad decisions.
Present anytime, anywhere: www.ccview.me Clipboard in the cloud: www.cloudclipx.com -- If I have 8 hours to chop down a tree, I spend 6 sharpening my ax! And I mostly do in CodeProject and Pluralsight!
It's difficult (to get used to W8) at first, but with some searches you will be there, perform any tasks you want in a new way. I used W8 from the beginning and going to love it until the end (if any).
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I have a quick test that the person that thought of, designed or approved the Windows 8 charms should take. Test: make them sit down in a computer, open terminal server and get into a Windows Server 2012 machine. Now ask them to try to show the charms bar instantly with the mouse 10 out of 10 times. It is not possible or you would have to be a ninja to do it consistently. If they fail, fire them! (Did Ballmer take the test?) Most people are not ninjas therefore it is not a nice user experience. Start button was way better. People need immediate reaction for an action, not guessing which one is the exact pixel to stand on top of. Make it simple, have a reaction for an action. Still want to get rid of the start button? Make a little triangle in the corner to fire it up. (You can also fix the screen with the apps but that is a separate topic) Make this the action that as a reaction Nonsense… You can see with pictures here: http://www.xaviermorera.com/2013/10/please-fire-the-person-in-microsoft-that-thought-the-charms-thing-is-ok/[^]
My new toy: www.cloudclipx.com -- If I have 8 hours to chop down a tree, I spend 6 sharpening my ax!
Agreed. Many of the W8 UI features make some sense on small, touch based screens, but not at all on large desktop screens without touch. W8 Desktop mode should be desktop mode. Charms don't belong there! These are central system commands that should be discoverable and easily accessible on a typical desktop system, disregarding the needs of a touch based or mobile system! The W7 (and earlier) Start Button and attached menu fulfilled that role. the Charm bar does not - to the contrary, it gets in the way when you try to close a window!
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I love the charms bar - can't use windows without it. When people ask me how to use windows 8 I tell them move your mouse to the corner. The corners is all you have to remember. When people ask me how to use any other OS I'm on the phone for hours trying to explain simple concepts. I use a chainsaw for chopping down trees. This lack of future tools may explain to you why windows 8 is the way windows 8 is. When the chainsaw came out, people that use axes got confused and resisted to something they had to learn. Greg Colborne.
On a two 24 inch screen desktop system without touch, when I have the mouse somewhere on the left - are you telling me that having to move the mouse all the way over to the top right corner of the right screen - and then back again to get to work - is a good thing? really?? I can't even move that far without repositioning the mouse on the mat!