Please tell me not all programming jobs are like this.
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Perhaps you might take this as an opportunity to develop a translation tool and either use a computer language you already love or one that you have been wanting to learn.
I have several wonderful programs I use every day that were developed this way. Some fool asked me to do some silly thing. I took the opportunity to make a more general purpose tool, and viola, I have a product. Of course you have to be careful of invention agreements and non-dosclosures. When they gave me the invention agreement (short version, "we own everything, even if you make it on your own time"), I took their cover page and proceeded to write my own, which I signed. It was still fair. Anything they paid me to make was theirs. Anything else (which included a laundry list of specific tools, libriaries, etc), was mine. One thing about learning about all these formats, you'll be the expert in the field. Once/if you leave, they will be calling you for years with questions and work requests (whether you consider that good or bad has to factor into your decision).
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So, I was interviewed for a job, and during the interview they didn't seem to want to say too much about what they actually did or what the job would be like. Made me suspicious, but also curious, and since I didn't really have anything better to do.. I just witnessed the most enterprisey piece of I don't even know what to call it. It's the sort of thing that requires 5 years of training just to use it, let alone modify the code. They briefly expected me to just get started on it, fortunately they quickly abandoned that plan. Instead, they want me to create something that converts some arcane XML format (CAMT053) to an undocumented XML format they use internally. Ok, sure, arcane to undocumented, perfectly doable, given enough time. But not worth doing. Frankly I'm getting ready to leave the profession entirely.
No not every job is like that. People don’t leave their jobs, they leave their managers. And at the moment my managers are Congress and Security, no matter what my supervisor says. So you could have a job in which you don’t know if you will be paid and when you are, whether you will get a full paycheck or one that is only 80% (though deductions are calculated at 100%). And every day you lose a new privilege for security reasons, like using the command prompt two days ago. Technical web sites were blocked a year ago and even some of the other military web sites in the same branch of the military are blocked. Your problem is typical, none or intentionally wrong documentation, management that won’t read past the verb in the first sentence, illogical and conflicting policies, political backstabbing, budgets that cut training first in a highly dynamic and changing industry. All signs that those that can, do. While those that can’t are promoted into management. Find the folks that keep their head down and keep the business working notwithstanding what management does. It’s a skill that will keep you out of management. If you want the money, learn to be a politician. But given your reaction, you probably don’t want to go into management. Management acts this way in all fields, more in others. The problem in the IS field is that computers can’t deal with the mistakes of management and that magnifies the problem. Welcome to the interface between the real world and the world of logic.
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So, I was interviewed for a job, and during the interview they didn't seem to want to say too much about what they actually did or what the job would be like. Made me suspicious, but also curious, and since I didn't really have anything better to do.. I just witnessed the most enterprisey piece of I don't even know what to call it. It's the sort of thing that requires 5 years of training just to use it, let alone modify the code. They briefly expected me to just get started on it, fortunately they quickly abandoned that plan. Instead, they want me to create something that converts some arcane XML format (CAMT053) to an undocumented XML format they use internally. Ok, sure, arcane to undocumented, perfectly doable, given enough time. But not worth doing. Frankly I'm getting ready to leave the profession entirely.
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So, I was interviewed for a job, and during the interview they didn't seem to want to say too much about what they actually did or what the job would be like. Made me suspicious, but also curious, and since I didn't really have anything better to do.. I just witnessed the most enterprisey piece of I don't even know what to call it. It's the sort of thing that requires 5 years of training just to use it, let alone modify the code. They briefly expected me to just get started on it, fortunately they quickly abandoned that plan. Instead, they want me to create something that converts some arcane XML format (CAMT053) to an undocumented XML format they use internally. Ok, sure, arcane to undocumented, perfectly doable, given enough time. But not worth doing. Frankly I'm getting ready to leave the profession entirely.
I'm inclined to say to give it a try. Other than the initial pain and potential political baggage, this is a win for your career all around. 1. There will always be a niche market for translating data between legacy systems and modern systems. The nastier the project the more you "real world" experience you gain.. Because lets face it, the real world is can be stranger than fiction. 2. because of this niche skill set, the market value of your work could be incredible.. Finding devs for Translating EDI data is dime a dozen.. But legacy undocumented data transaction on proprietary systems is something no 4 year degree can get. 3. To further points 1 and 2. you can also put yourself in a position where you can be an asset and in some cases shield yourself from the bureaucratic crap.. It's their mess and they are ultimately paying you to keep it in the closet. Be the rock star and you could hold the cards come review time. Worst case you move on to greener pastures and they still call you to fix stuff as a contractor and you set the price. :)
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So, I was interviewed for a job, and during the interview they didn't seem to want to say too much about what they actually did or what the job would be like. Made me suspicious, but also curious, and since I didn't really have anything better to do.. I just witnessed the most enterprisey piece of I don't even know what to call it. It's the sort of thing that requires 5 years of training just to use it, let alone modify the code. They briefly expected me to just get started on it, fortunately they quickly abandoned that plan. Instead, they want me to create something that converts some arcane XML format (CAMT053) to an undocumented XML format they use internally. Ok, sure, arcane to undocumented, perfectly doable, given enough time. But not worth doing. Frankly I'm getting ready to leave the profession entirely.
Oh yeah, I used to work there. Before attempting to convert to SGML (far as I know they never succeeded in converting the older documents, just creating new ones) they had 50+ conversion filters because the text editors could not do anything consistently and would not go back over their formatting to correct it. Leaving it to the IT department to write a new conversion filter before they could load the data. Maybe I'm thinking of some place else...
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
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So, I was interviewed for a job, and during the interview they didn't seem to want to say too much about what they actually did or what the job would be like. Made me suspicious, but also curious, and since I didn't really have anything better to do.. I just witnessed the most enterprisey piece of I don't even know what to call it. It's the sort of thing that requires 5 years of training just to use it, let alone modify the code. They briefly expected me to just get started on it, fortunately they quickly abandoned that plan. Instead, they want me to create something that converts some arcane XML format (CAMT053) to an undocumented XML format they use internally. Ok, sure, arcane to undocumented, perfectly doable, given enough time. But not worth doing. Frankly I'm getting ready to leave the profession entirely.
I was intrigued what this format was. Seems there is nothing arcane about CAMT053 - just an XML format for bank statements - version I googled was dated this year, the something ought to be some XSL. As for the undocumented format there must be at least an example otherwise how is this possible? Newsflash - this is a typical programming job.
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So, I was interviewed for a job, and during the interview they didn't seem to want to say too much about what they actually did or what the job would be like. Made me suspicious, but also curious, and since I didn't really have anything better to do.. I just witnessed the most enterprisey piece of I don't even know what to call it. It's the sort of thing that requires 5 years of training just to use it, let alone modify the code. They briefly expected me to just get started on it, fortunately they quickly abandoned that plan. Instead, they want me to create something that converts some arcane XML format (CAMT053) to an undocumented XML format they use internally. Ok, sure, arcane to undocumented, perfectly doable, given enough time. But not worth doing. Frankly I'm getting ready to leave the profession entirely.
I wish my job was this easy. As long as you explicitly tell your bosses in writing that you can't guarantee the compatibility of an undocumented format you're covered. Just make the code easy to modify the format by encapsulating the XML doc in its own class so that's the primary thing that might need modification. In the jobs I've been working my bosses want impossible things... "If I think it, it can be programmed". I've been doing software for almost 40 years and it's just getting worse every day. Just look at Obamacare for a really good example of the mentality today.
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So, I was interviewed for a job, and during the interview they didn't seem to want to say too much about what they actually did or what the job would be like. Made me suspicious, but also curious, and since I didn't really have anything better to do.. I just witnessed the most enterprisey piece of I don't even know what to call it. It's the sort of thing that requires 5 years of training just to use it, let alone modify the code. They briefly expected me to just get started on it, fortunately they quickly abandoned that plan. Instead, they want me to create something that converts some arcane XML format (CAMT053) to an undocumented XML format they use internally. Ok, sure, arcane to undocumented, perfectly doable, given enough time. But not worth doing. Frankly I'm getting ready to leave the profession entirely.
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So, I was interviewed for a job, and during the interview they didn't seem to want to say too much about what they actually did or what the job would be like. Made me suspicious, but also curious, and since I didn't really have anything better to do.. I just witnessed the most enterprisey piece of I don't even know what to call it. It's the sort of thing that requires 5 years of training just to use it, let alone modify the code. They briefly expected me to just get started on it, fortunately they quickly abandoned that plan. Instead, they want me to create something that converts some arcane XML format (CAMT053) to an undocumented XML format they use internally. Ok, sure, arcane to undocumented, perfectly doable, given enough time. But not worth doing. Frankly I'm getting ready to leave the profession entirely.
Unfortunately, in the United States today, most developer positions are similar to what you describe. Every now and then you find a really great company to work in but a single bad manager hiring can reduce an entire department to ashes...
Steve Naidamast Sr. Software Engineer blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
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So, I was interviewed for a job, and during the interview they didn't seem to want to say too much about what they actually did or what the job would be like. Made me suspicious, but also curious, and since I didn't really have anything better to do.. I just witnessed the most enterprisey piece of I don't even know what to call it. It's the sort of thing that requires 5 years of training just to use it, let alone modify the code. They briefly expected me to just get started on it, fortunately they quickly abandoned that plan. Instead, they want me to create something that converts some arcane XML format (CAMT053) to an undocumented XML format they use internally. Ok, sure, arcane to undocumented, perfectly doable, given enough time. But not worth doing. Frankly I'm getting ready to leave the profession entirely.
I'm out. Not out of programming, of course. Programming is fun. Out of programming professionally, which is, apparently, the most boring thing on earth. The reason I went into programming in the first place, about ten years ago, is for the interesting problems. So if all everyone's doing is converting stupid XML formats and the like, it's just not the right profession for me. I don't get how you guys can stand that crap.
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If you are a permie, that's bad... On the other hand, for a Contractor, a job like that is just Gravy - you can get paid for doing what you want, when you want to, and blame everyone else for not providing the information you need to do the job. Best of all, if it doesn't work at the end because the internal format is sufficiently arcane, you can just say "why didn't you tell me that at some point?" and start all over again...on the same pay scale... ;)
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So, I was interviewed for a job, and during the interview they didn't seem to want to say too much about what they actually did or what the job would be like. Made me suspicious, but also curious, and since I didn't really have anything better to do.. I just witnessed the most enterprisey piece of I don't even know what to call it. It's the sort of thing that requires 5 years of training just to use it, let alone modify the code. They briefly expected me to just get started on it, fortunately they quickly abandoned that plan. Instead, they want me to create something that converts some arcane XML format (CAMT053) to an undocumented XML format they use internally. Ok, sure, arcane to undocumented, perfectly doable, given enough time. But not worth doing. Frankly I'm getting ready to leave the profession entirely.
"...they want me to create something that converts some arcane XML format (CAMT053) to an undocumented XML format they use internally." XSLT: http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/[^]
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I'm out. Not out of programming, of course. Programming is fun. Out of programming professionally, which is, apparently, the most boring thing on earth. The reason I went into programming in the first place, about ten years ago, is for the interesting problems. So if all everyone's doing is converting stupid XML formats and the like, it's just not the right profession for me. I don't get how you guys can stand that crap.
"I'm out." Most programming jobs aren't like this. I speak from experience.
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Ever heard the phrase "Feet, do your duty!" ?
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"...they want me to create something that converts some arcane XML format (CAMT053) to an undocumented XML format they use internally." XSLT: http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/[^]
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So, I was interviewed for a job, and during the interview they didn't seem to want to say too much about what they actually did or what the job would be like. Made me suspicious, but also curious, and since I didn't really have anything better to do.. I just witnessed the most enterprisey piece of I don't even know what to call it. It's the sort of thing that requires 5 years of training just to use it, let alone modify the code. They briefly expected me to just get started on it, fortunately they quickly abandoned that plan. Instead, they want me to create something that converts some arcane XML format (CAMT053) to an undocumented XML format they use internally. Ok, sure, arcane to undocumented, perfectly doable, given enough time. But not worth doing. Frankly I'm getting ready to leave the profession entirely.
Document the format then create some XSLT transformations, personally, I have done something like this before and is boring as hell, but it's perfectly doable.
CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...
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So, I was interviewed for a job, and during the interview they didn't seem to want to say too much about what they actually did or what the job would be like. Made me suspicious, but also curious, and since I didn't really have anything better to do.. I just witnessed the most enterprisey piece of I don't even know what to call it. It's the sort of thing that requires 5 years of training just to use it, let alone modify the code. They briefly expected me to just get started on it, fortunately they quickly abandoned that plan. Instead, they want me to create something that converts some arcane XML format (CAMT053) to an undocumented XML format they use internally. Ok, sure, arcane to undocumented, perfectly doable, given enough time. But not worth doing. Frankly I'm getting ready to leave the profession entirely.
--Instead, they want me to create something that converts some arcane XML format (CAMT053) to an undocumented XML format they use internally. Ok, sure, arcane to undocumented, perfectly doable, given enough time. Given enough time? It should take only minutes. What you're describing is a XSLT...a transformation from one XML format to another XML format. XSLT does precisely that. Oh...and now you can demand the internal format....if it's wrong...change the XSLT config and you're done.
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that would be quite unethical wouldn't you agree
No, I wouldn't. If you hire someone at an hourly (or daily, or weekly) rate, and give him insufficient information to produce exactly what you want, then it is your fault that what he produces is not what you wanted. The alternative is for him to sit on his hands until you do provide the information while you pay him, and that is unethical - particularly if he doesn't know the info even exists.
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"I'm out." Most programming jobs aren't like this. I speak from experience.
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Ever heard the phrase "Feet, do your duty!" ?
I always heard it as, "Feets don't fail me now!"
