Please tell me not all programming jobs are like this.
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So, I was interviewed for a job, and during the interview they didn't seem to want to say too much about what they actually did or what the job would be like. Made me suspicious, but also curious, and since I didn't really have anything better to do.. I just witnessed the most enterprisey piece of I don't even know what to call it. It's the sort of thing that requires 5 years of training just to use it, let alone modify the code. They briefly expected me to just get started on it, fortunately they quickly abandoned that plan. Instead, they want me to create something that converts some arcane XML format (CAMT053) to an undocumented XML format they use internally. Ok, sure, arcane to undocumented, perfectly doable, given enough time. But not worth doing. Frankly I'm getting ready to leave the profession entirely.
Oh yeah, I used to work there. Before attempting to convert to SGML (far as I know they never succeeded in converting the older documents, just creating new ones) they had 50+ conversion filters because the text editors could not do anything consistently and would not go back over their formatting to correct it. Leaving it to the IT department to write a new conversion filter before they could load the data. Maybe I'm thinking of some place else...
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
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So, I was interviewed for a job, and during the interview they didn't seem to want to say too much about what they actually did or what the job would be like. Made me suspicious, but also curious, and since I didn't really have anything better to do.. I just witnessed the most enterprisey piece of I don't even know what to call it. It's the sort of thing that requires 5 years of training just to use it, let alone modify the code. They briefly expected me to just get started on it, fortunately they quickly abandoned that plan. Instead, they want me to create something that converts some arcane XML format (CAMT053) to an undocumented XML format they use internally. Ok, sure, arcane to undocumented, perfectly doable, given enough time. But not worth doing. Frankly I'm getting ready to leave the profession entirely.
I was intrigued what this format was. Seems there is nothing arcane about CAMT053 - just an XML format for bank statements - version I googled was dated this year, the something ought to be some XSL. As for the undocumented format there must be at least an example otherwise how is this possible? Newsflash - this is a typical programming job.
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So, I was interviewed for a job, and during the interview they didn't seem to want to say too much about what they actually did or what the job would be like. Made me suspicious, but also curious, and since I didn't really have anything better to do.. I just witnessed the most enterprisey piece of I don't even know what to call it. It's the sort of thing that requires 5 years of training just to use it, let alone modify the code. They briefly expected me to just get started on it, fortunately they quickly abandoned that plan. Instead, they want me to create something that converts some arcane XML format (CAMT053) to an undocumented XML format they use internally. Ok, sure, arcane to undocumented, perfectly doable, given enough time. But not worth doing. Frankly I'm getting ready to leave the profession entirely.
I wish my job was this easy. As long as you explicitly tell your bosses in writing that you can't guarantee the compatibility of an undocumented format you're covered. Just make the code easy to modify the format by encapsulating the XML doc in its own class so that's the primary thing that might need modification. In the jobs I've been working my bosses want impossible things... "If I think it, it can be programmed". I've been doing software for almost 40 years and it's just getting worse every day. Just look at Obamacare for a really good example of the mentality today.
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So, I was interviewed for a job, and during the interview they didn't seem to want to say too much about what they actually did or what the job would be like. Made me suspicious, but also curious, and since I didn't really have anything better to do.. I just witnessed the most enterprisey piece of I don't even know what to call it. It's the sort of thing that requires 5 years of training just to use it, let alone modify the code. They briefly expected me to just get started on it, fortunately they quickly abandoned that plan. Instead, they want me to create something that converts some arcane XML format (CAMT053) to an undocumented XML format they use internally. Ok, sure, arcane to undocumented, perfectly doable, given enough time. But not worth doing. Frankly I'm getting ready to leave the profession entirely.
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So, I was interviewed for a job, and during the interview they didn't seem to want to say too much about what they actually did or what the job would be like. Made me suspicious, but also curious, and since I didn't really have anything better to do.. I just witnessed the most enterprisey piece of I don't even know what to call it. It's the sort of thing that requires 5 years of training just to use it, let alone modify the code. They briefly expected me to just get started on it, fortunately they quickly abandoned that plan. Instead, they want me to create something that converts some arcane XML format (CAMT053) to an undocumented XML format they use internally. Ok, sure, arcane to undocumented, perfectly doable, given enough time. But not worth doing. Frankly I'm getting ready to leave the profession entirely.
Unfortunately, in the United States today, most developer positions are similar to what you describe. Every now and then you find a really great company to work in but a single bad manager hiring can reduce an entire department to ashes...
Steve Naidamast Sr. Software Engineer blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
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So, I was interviewed for a job, and during the interview they didn't seem to want to say too much about what they actually did or what the job would be like. Made me suspicious, but also curious, and since I didn't really have anything better to do.. I just witnessed the most enterprisey piece of I don't even know what to call it. It's the sort of thing that requires 5 years of training just to use it, let alone modify the code. They briefly expected me to just get started on it, fortunately they quickly abandoned that plan. Instead, they want me to create something that converts some arcane XML format (CAMT053) to an undocumented XML format they use internally. Ok, sure, arcane to undocumented, perfectly doable, given enough time. But not worth doing. Frankly I'm getting ready to leave the profession entirely.
I'm out. Not out of programming, of course. Programming is fun. Out of programming professionally, which is, apparently, the most boring thing on earth. The reason I went into programming in the first place, about ten years ago, is for the interesting problems. So if all everyone's doing is converting stupid XML formats and the like, it's just not the right profession for me. I don't get how you guys can stand that crap.
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If you are a permie, that's bad... On the other hand, for a Contractor, a job like that is just Gravy - you can get paid for doing what you want, when you want to, and blame everyone else for not providing the information you need to do the job. Best of all, if it doesn't work at the end because the internal format is sufficiently arcane, you can just say "why didn't you tell me that at some point?" and start all over again...on the same pay scale... ;)
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So, I was interviewed for a job, and during the interview they didn't seem to want to say too much about what they actually did or what the job would be like. Made me suspicious, but also curious, and since I didn't really have anything better to do.. I just witnessed the most enterprisey piece of I don't even know what to call it. It's the sort of thing that requires 5 years of training just to use it, let alone modify the code. They briefly expected me to just get started on it, fortunately they quickly abandoned that plan. Instead, they want me to create something that converts some arcane XML format (CAMT053) to an undocumented XML format they use internally. Ok, sure, arcane to undocumented, perfectly doable, given enough time. But not worth doing. Frankly I'm getting ready to leave the profession entirely.
"...they want me to create something that converts some arcane XML format (CAMT053) to an undocumented XML format they use internally." XSLT: http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/[^]
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I'm out. Not out of programming, of course. Programming is fun. Out of programming professionally, which is, apparently, the most boring thing on earth. The reason I went into programming in the first place, about ten years ago, is for the interesting problems. So if all everyone's doing is converting stupid XML formats and the like, it's just not the right profession for me. I don't get how you guys can stand that crap.
"I'm out." Most programming jobs aren't like this. I speak from experience.
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Ever heard the phrase "Feet, do your duty!" ?
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"...they want me to create something that converts some arcane XML format (CAMT053) to an undocumented XML format they use internally." XSLT: http://www.w3schools.com/xsl/[^]
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So, I was interviewed for a job, and during the interview they didn't seem to want to say too much about what they actually did or what the job would be like. Made me suspicious, but also curious, and since I didn't really have anything better to do.. I just witnessed the most enterprisey piece of I don't even know what to call it. It's the sort of thing that requires 5 years of training just to use it, let alone modify the code. They briefly expected me to just get started on it, fortunately they quickly abandoned that plan. Instead, they want me to create something that converts some arcane XML format (CAMT053) to an undocumented XML format they use internally. Ok, sure, arcane to undocumented, perfectly doable, given enough time. But not worth doing. Frankly I'm getting ready to leave the profession entirely.
Document the format then create some XSLT transformations, personally, I have done something like this before and is boring as hell, but it's perfectly doable.
CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...
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So, I was interviewed for a job, and during the interview they didn't seem to want to say too much about what they actually did or what the job would be like. Made me suspicious, but also curious, and since I didn't really have anything better to do.. I just witnessed the most enterprisey piece of I don't even know what to call it. It's the sort of thing that requires 5 years of training just to use it, let alone modify the code. They briefly expected me to just get started on it, fortunately they quickly abandoned that plan. Instead, they want me to create something that converts some arcane XML format (CAMT053) to an undocumented XML format they use internally. Ok, sure, arcane to undocumented, perfectly doable, given enough time. But not worth doing. Frankly I'm getting ready to leave the profession entirely.
--Instead, they want me to create something that converts some arcane XML format (CAMT053) to an undocumented XML format they use internally. Ok, sure, arcane to undocumented, perfectly doable, given enough time. Given enough time? It should take only minutes. What you're describing is a XSLT...a transformation from one XML format to another XML format. XSLT does precisely that. Oh...and now you can demand the internal format....if it's wrong...change the XSLT config and you're done.
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that would be quite unethical wouldn't you agree
No, I wouldn't. If you hire someone at an hourly (or daily, or weekly) rate, and give him insufficient information to produce exactly what you want, then it is your fault that what he produces is not what you wanted. The alternative is for him to sit on his hands until you do provide the information while you pay him, and that is unethical - particularly if he doesn't know the info even exists.
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"I'm out." Most programming jobs aren't like this. I speak from experience.
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Ever heard the phrase "Feet, do your duty!" ?
I always heard it as, "Feets don't fail me now!"
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IMHO you'll find more variation in programming jobs than in other professions because computers intersect just about every technology, and just about every human endeavor. I've worked on: A computer-vision system for NASA that plots a trajectory and firing to dock with a satellite based on snapshots of the satellite, a robot dog, DNA analysis to find divergence of species during evolution, using genetic algorithms to "evolve" designs for computer systems, schedules for nurses, and stock-market strategies, image processing and analysis for a variety of inspection systems, expert systems for design and for diagnosis of diseases, and data mining. And these are just some of the more interesting applications. I think a good math background will prepare you for the more-interesting software jobs.
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I always heard it as, "Feets don't fail me now!"
Robert Ludwig wrote:
I always heard it as, "Feets don't fail me now!"
Heh... either way, this is a situation that you need to run, not walk out of. No, not all programming jobs are this way but this is sure one that you don't wanna stick around for!
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IMHO you'll find more variation in programming jobs than in other professions because computers intersect just about every technology, and just about every human endeavor. I've worked on: A computer-vision system for NASA that plots a trajectory and firing to dock with a satellite based on snapshots of the satellite, a robot dog, DNA analysis to find divergence of species during evolution, using genetic algorithms to "evolve" designs for computer systems, schedules for nurses, and stock-market strategies, image processing and analysis for a variety of inspection systems, expert systems for design and for diagnosis of diseases, and data mining. And these are just some of the more interesting applications. I think a good math background will prepare you for the more-interesting software jobs.
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So, I was interviewed for a job, and during the interview they didn't seem to want to say too much about what they actually did or what the job would be like. Made me suspicious, but also curious, and since I didn't really have anything better to do.. I just witnessed the most enterprisey piece of I don't even know what to call it. It's the sort of thing that requires 5 years of training just to use it, let alone modify the code. They briefly expected me to just get started on it, fortunately they quickly abandoned that plan. Instead, they want me to create something that converts some arcane XML format (CAMT053) to an undocumented XML format they use internally. Ok, sure, arcane to undocumented, perfectly doable, given enough time. But not worth doing. Frankly I'm getting ready to leave the profession entirely.
It sounds like most of the respondees are reading into your description, that the politics and the personalities are the issue. But reading your actual description you really are just saying that the task just doesn't seem to you like it's worth doing. So you are saying that you don't see the value of converting from one XML schema to another one. On the other hand you did just start there and have little background on the importance or usefulness of it. In addition, sometimes when you start out, as an intern, guess what: you get to do the boring stuff that others don't feel like doing. If you really are thinking about quitting the profession just because you are given a task that you feel is beneath you as an intern. Then by all means do so, because it seems you picked the wrong profession (but I doubt you will find the situation is much different in other fields). On the other hand if it is, as others were reading into your comments, that the actual problem is a caustic and unworkable environment and personalities, then it might make sense to move on. Although learning how to make things work in spite of the personalities involved is still something you would have to figure out at some point.
