What I don't understand is...
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Why isn't there an automated system that slows the train down?[^] There was a similar incident earlier this year in Europe (France?), again, why aren't there system's in place that basically control the train 100%? I can't even imagine a reason for an operator except as a fallback to a failure of the technology. Marc
Because we haven't had a disaster expensive or deadly enough to overcome the rail industries "ZOMG!!!!!!! That would cost zillions!" reaction yet. It doesn't help that the systems I've read about are all full auto-pilot/automatic switching systems that would need to be installed on every train, passenger and freight, and at every rail switch in order to be effective. For preventing conductor wasn't paying attention and went too fast accidents a much simpler solution consisting of a maximum speed governor and a GPS/inertial (for routes with tunnels) tracking system would be sufficient. It would also be something that could be added to trains individually, probably only to passenger or high risk freight initially, instead of needing to be deployed everywhere all at once. Cynically speaking this is a liability because it would mean much less money to be made by the companies pushing regulators to mandate the use of their product. As always, perfection is the enemy of good enough. :((
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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Because we haven't had a disaster expensive or deadly enough to overcome the rail industries "ZOMG!!!!!!! That would cost zillions!" reaction yet. It doesn't help that the systems I've read about are all full auto-pilot/automatic switching systems that would need to be installed on every train, passenger and freight, and at every rail switch in order to be effective. For preventing conductor wasn't paying attention and went too fast accidents a much simpler solution consisting of a maximum speed governor and a GPS/inertial (for routes with tunnels) tracking system would be sufficient. It would also be something that could be added to trains individually, probably only to passenger or high risk freight initially, instead of needing to be deployed everywhere all at once. Cynically speaking this is a liability because it would mean much less money to be made by the companies pushing regulators to mandate the use of their product. As always, perfection is the enemy of good enough. :((
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
Dan Neely wrote:
a much simpler solution consisting of a maximum speed governor and a GPS/inertial (for routes with tunnels) tracking system would be sufficient.
Exactly what I was thinking. And certainly for the NYC Metro rail system, which has had 2 (or was it 3?) major accidents this year, freight isn't an issue because these trains are "light rail" and freight never runs on them. At most, they share the track with Amtrak, and again, in the Hudson / NY / Boston areas, Amtrak and freight do not share the same track. The only thing I'd add is some sort of radar collision detection gear - that's a bit more problematic because many of these trains don't have the engine up front, so putting these devices on the cars and communicating to the engine would make things a bit more complicated. Marc
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Why isn't there an automated system that slows the train down?[^] There was a similar incident earlier this year in Europe (France?), again, why aren't there system's in place that basically control the train 100%? I can't even imagine a reason for an operator except as a fallback to a failure of the technology. Marc
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Marc Clifton wrote:
France?
Santiago, Spain. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25206455[^] Soren Madsen
"When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly" - Jase #DuckDynasty
SoMad wrote:
Santiago, Spain.
Ah yes. Thanks for the correction. Marc
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Why isn't there an automated system that slows the train down?[^] There was a similar incident earlier this year in Europe (France?), again, why aren't there system's in place that basically control the train 100%? I can't even imagine a reason for an operator except as a fallback to a failure of the technology. Marc
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Why isn't there an automated system that slows the train down?[^] There was a similar incident earlier this year in Europe (France?), again, why aren't there system's in place that basically control the train 100%? I can't even imagine a reason for an operator except as a fallback to a failure of the technology. Marc
It was in Spain, Santiago de Compostela. There are special sensors that help, but at the end it all depends on the "pilot"... A GPS assisted and a beacon system should be easy and not so much expensive to implement, and at least it would avoid this kind of problems. X|
[www.tamautomation.com] | Robots, CNC and PLC machines for grinding and polishing. [YouTube channel]
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What I don't understand is why someone that has a job, where there are 2 things to do, use the accelerator and the brake is incapable of doing his job. The guy doesn't even need to steer it.
It seems he may have fallen asleep on the job. He admitted to being sleepy in radio communications earlier in the trip. That leads to the question of if he did a stupid and didn't get enough sleep on his normal schedule, or was a last minute replacement and normally worked a shift where he'd've been sleeping when the accident occurred.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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What I don't understand is why someone that has a job, where there are 2 things to do, use the accelerator and the brake is incapable of doing his job. The guy doesn't even need to steer it.
The less you have to do to concentrate on the task at hand, the more likely you are to drift off to another dimension. I know that when I am stuck in a long line of traffic cruising along at some rediculously low speed I'm ready to fall alseep after 10 minutes, but if I drive (or better yet, ride the motorcycle) fast (ie over the speed limit, the more the better) my concentration level is way better because you have to react to more things in a lessor time frame.
If your neighbours don't listen to The Ramones, turn it up real loud so they can. “We didn't have a positive song until we wrote 'Now I Wanna Sniff Some Glue!'” ― Dee Dee Ramone "The Democrats want my guns and the Republicans want my porno mags and I ain't giving up either" - Joey Ramone
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What I don't understand is why someone that has a job, where there are 2 things to do, use the accelerator and the brake is incapable of doing his job. The guy doesn't even need to steer it.
And the train driver sits there and comtemplates "What I don't understand is why someone that has a job where there is one thing to do, write code, is incapable of doing their job." Or have you never had a bug?
MVVM # - I did it My Way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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Why isn't there an automated system that slows the train down?[^] There was a similar incident earlier this year in Europe (France?), again, why aren't there system's in place that basically control the train 100%? I can't even imagine a reason for an operator except as a fallback to a failure of the technology. Marc
There is, Singapore's MRT has no drivers on most (if not all) of their rail. Arrival times are every 1-2 minutes in peak times and the operators get fined $1m if they cause a major delay. They have an excellent ticketing system that causes minimal delays and a trip of 6 stops cost 86 CENTS in off peak and something just over a $1 in peak hour.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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What I don't understand is why someone that has a job, where there are 2 things to do, use the accelerator and the brake is incapable of doing his job. The guy doesn't even need to steer it.
The job of a footballer is to kick footballs into goals. Their entire working life (at least 8 hours a day) is dedicated to learning how to do this and practice doing it. How many miss penalties?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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It seems he may have fallen asleep on the job. He admitted to being sleepy in radio communications earlier in the trip. That leads to the question of if he did a stupid and didn't get enough sleep on his normal schedule, or was a last minute replacement and normally worked a shift where he'd've been sleeping when the accident occurred.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
I think a dead man switch wouldbe enough to counter this. Operator falls asleep -> train stops. Simple as that. Ok, probably there should be some additional system to prevent the next train from crashing into the standing one.
The good thing about pessimism is, that you are always either right or pleasently surprised.
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Marc Clifton wrote:
why aren't there system's in place that basically control the train 100%?
Autopilot, like most plains? Where the driver is merely an ornamental figure? ..impossible, there'd be no-one to blame in case of accidents. You need people on the workfloor.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
Blame the programmer.
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Marc Clifton wrote:
why aren't there system's in place that basically control the train 100%?
Autopilot, like most plains? Where the driver is merely an ornamental figure? ..impossible, there'd be no-one to blame in case of accidents. You need people on the workfloor.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
Interestingly enough, or maybe not... commercial aircraft do have what is called an 'autothrottle' which is separate from the autopilot. This allows the pilot to fly it via the stick without having to concentrate on the throttle as well(the 'autopilot' looks after the control surfaces). It's usually used on descent to landing and switched off just before landing(a small button on the control stick).
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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Why isn't there an automated system that slows the train down?[^] There was a similar incident earlier this year in Europe (France?), again, why aren't there system's in place that basically control the train 100%? I can't even imagine a reason for an operator except as a fallback to a failure of the technology. Marc
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Why isn't there an automated system that slows the train down?[^] There was a similar incident earlier this year in Europe (France?), again, why aren't there system's in place that basically control the train 100%? I can't even imagine a reason for an operator except as a fallback to a failure of the technology. Marc
Turns out it's on it's way. Mandated in the US by 2015 for passenger trains. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/12/04/railroad-crash-positive-train-control-crash-ntsb-metro-north/3869729/[^]
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt