I Don't Think 8.1 Stinks, Actually
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Simon O'Riordan from UK wrote:
similar to Gmail for Android
IMHO not quite. Gmail is for mail so you need email account to access, Win8.1 is an OS...
The Gmail equivalent is where you need an account for the app store. I already had a verified hotmail(>15 years) which I use as cloud storage for my Amazon receipts. Apart from logging on(and I would be surprised if there is no alternative, they just don't make it obvious) I'm not worried. Interestingly, when I installed Avast, the options include a specific anti-NSA protection. They even use the name NSA. :rolleyes:
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While my hooky 7 license is stuck in the wonderfully efficient Deustche-Post system, as it has been for a month, I bought Windows 8.1 for one of my redundant boxes at the weekend. I must say, apart from just two things, it is quite pleasant to use. The first thing is the need for a Hotmail account to log into my own computer; big brother, slightly moreso than Android and gmail, but not obtrusive. The second is that to shut an application I needed alt-F4, there didn't appear to be any controls, just differences in focus. There are many differences, but I find them interesting. Also, I was easily able to install Visual Studio 2008 and test it. Hello world etc work fine, with nice GUI integration. I like the built-in Skype, I like the app-style Facebook extra, I like the Android-style app shop(which also like Android, doesn't demand payment details unless you want to buy something). I like the way all and any hardware is integrated effortlessly, including wifi printing and scanning. I speak as someone who has been using Ubuntu exclusively at home for 4 years; MS has clearly done some Ubuntu/Linux homework and decided that good things a like seamless driver integration should be taken seriously, at last. And with the ecosystem control, they don't even nag about security anymore(although I installed Avast). For once, MS is being maligned for doing something actually good. :(
Simon O'Riordan from UK wrote:
The first thing is the need for a Hotmail account to log into my own computer
You don't actually need this. Unfortunately it's not made clear that you don't need it.
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Could just be the 'shock of the new'? I really have no objection to the tiles, since I've been using Unity for years, which is a less bold use of screen real estate. Swiping? I should have guessed. All the tablets and smartphones I've used have this. Maybe it's just me, but I like it. From what you say, you'd probably love Unity-based Ubuntu. As for drivers, my 7 box still needs to mess about with searching online through a cable before it will fix up my wifi dongle, but once done it's fine. 8.1 is the first windows I've ever had which matches Linux for convenience.
Shock of the new? hm... I don't know. I think it eats up way to much space. It's difficult to find specific apps you might not use very often. And at least at work I fire up my applications by hotkeys anyway. And as long as there are apps running only in desktop mode and some running in metro mode it looks pretty messy... I expect every application to behave the same... Maybe I'll be forced one time to embrace it, but that will probably be only when the Windows 7 lifetime ends or anything else forces me to use Windows 8.x... :laugh: Yeah, Windows 7 might not have all the drivers included. But if it can't find a driver it's still pretty easy to search for them through Windows Update. Probably a newer Wifi dongle might not be included because it might not have been available when Windows 7 was released ;) Well I never really got around Linux/Unix very well... And I don't think it goes well with Visual Studio and the games I like to play occasionally ;) Last time I tried it finding the right drivers for all the devices wasn't that easy and I think the GPU driver wasn't really optimized. I always felt like the GUI wasn't as fluent as on Windows. (Starting with moving Windows around etc.) Besides, although office suites like LibreOffice and OpenOffice might provide most of the features of MS Office I don't really like them. I think I might stick to Windows 7 a little while longer and wait what Windows 8.2 or any other future version might bring ;)
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Simon O'Riordan from UK wrote:
similar to Gmail for Android
IMHO not quite. Gmail is for mail so you need email account to access, Win8.1 is an OS...
It's actually exactly the same I think - you need a Microsoft account to use Windows 8.1 (except in Enterprise situations I believe), just as you need a Google account to use Android (if I remember correctly).
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough." Alan Kay.
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The Gmail equivalent is where you need an account for the app store. I already had a verified hotmail(>15 years) which I use as cloud storage for my Amazon receipts. Apart from logging on(and I would be surprised if there is no alternative, they just don't make it obvious) I'm not worried. Interestingly, when I installed Avast, the options include a specific anti-NSA protection. They even use the name NSA. :rolleyes:
Simon O'Riordan from UK wrote:
the options include a specific anti-NSA protection
As if THAT would make any difference. Tell me how avast can prevent the NSA from grabbing your internet traffic... :rolleyes:
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Simon O'Riordan from UK wrote:
need for a Hotmail account to log into my own computer
If that not stinks I do not know what is!!!
Really? I have the option of logging in via a Windows Live account or just an offline local user account which is what I do. Whether you are forced at first to use a Live account or not I'm not sure but you don't have to continue with it if so. And if they are linked be careful, the wallpaper you use at home can spring up on your work PC!
Regards, Rob Philpott.
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Simon O'Riordan from UK wrote:
The first thing is the need for a Hotmail account to log into my own computer
You don't actually need this. Unfortunately it's not made clear that you don't need it.
Yeah, they pretty much force it upon you when setting up Windows 8. Probably because it's "for the conveniance of the user"... like if I'd want to type in a password each time I want to use a tablet... Oh and the best part? If you used your live login with 8.0 and changed it to a local user: the update to Windows 8.1 just changed it back to the live login... X|
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It's actually exactly the same I think - you need a Microsoft account to use Windows 8.1 (except in Enterprise situations I believe), just as you need a Google account to use Android (if I remember correctly).
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough." Alan Kay.
You don't need a Google account to use Android. Unless you wan't to use the official App Store. Setting your Gmail account data for the phone gives you some features like cloud backups etc. but it's definitely not needed. Same goes for the iPhone if I remember correctly.
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Simon O'Riordan from UK wrote:
The first thing is the need for a Hotmail account to log into my own computer
You don't actually need this. Unfortunately it's not made clear that you don't need it.
Thought as much.
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Simon O'Riordan from UK wrote:
the options include a specific anti-NSA protection
As if THAT would make any difference. Tell me how avast can prevent the NSA from grabbing your internet traffic... :rolleyes:
The fact that they're trying means people are being taken seriously at least. I tried to publish a project last night which gives people a simple encryption pad for copying and pasting text. One of these days I'll get the CP publishing worked out; essentially you can encrypt anything from a single word to an email or Facebook post. I doubt that they'd have much fun cracking it, even if they knew where to look.
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The fact that they're trying means people are being taken seriously at least. I tried to publish a project last night which gives people a simple encryption pad for copying and pasting text. One of these days I'll get the CP publishing worked out; essentially you can encrypt anything from a single word to an email or Facebook post. I doubt that they'd have much fun cracking it, even if they knew where to look.
Sounds interesting, but I guess it's the same like with PGP encrypted emails or encrypting drives with tools like truecrypt. For the average user it's way too much effort to be practical. :sigh:
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Sounds interesting, but I guess it's the same like with PGP encrypted emails or encrypting drives with tools like truecrypt. For the average user it's way too much effort to be practical. :sigh:
That was my whole point; you run the little .NET app, type in your text, hit the 'encrypt' button, hit the 'copy' button and paste the gobbledegook into you mail or browser(or document). For occasional peace of mind only.
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Shock of the new? hm... I don't know. I think it eats up way to much space. It's difficult to find specific apps you might not use very often. And at least at work I fire up my applications by hotkeys anyway. And as long as there are apps running only in desktop mode and some running in metro mode it looks pretty messy... I expect every application to behave the same... Maybe I'll be forced one time to embrace it, but that will probably be only when the Windows 7 lifetime ends or anything else forces me to use Windows 8.x... :laugh: Yeah, Windows 7 might not have all the drivers included. But if it can't find a driver it's still pretty easy to search for them through Windows Update. Probably a newer Wifi dongle might not be included because it might not have been available when Windows 7 was released ;) Well I never really got around Linux/Unix very well... And I don't think it goes well with Visual Studio and the games I like to play occasionally ;) Last time I tried it finding the right drivers for all the devices wasn't that easy and I think the GPU driver wasn't really optimized. I always felt like the GUI wasn't as fluent as on Windows. (Starting with moving Windows around etc.) Besides, although office suites like LibreOffice and OpenOffice might provide most of the features of MS Office I don't really like them. I think I might stick to Windows 7 a little while longer and wait what Windows 8.2 or any other future version might bring ;)
My thoughts exactly: wait for Win9...unless they do something really good, I'll skip this version completely, like I did Vista.
Never underestimate the power of stupid things in large numbers --- Serious Sam
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While my hooky 7 license is stuck in the wonderfully efficient Deustche-Post system, as it has been for a month, I bought Windows 8.1 for one of my redundant boxes at the weekend. I must say, apart from just two things, it is quite pleasant to use. The first thing is the need for a Hotmail account to log into my own computer; big brother, slightly moreso than Android and gmail, but not obtrusive. The second is that to shut an application I needed alt-F4, there didn't appear to be any controls, just differences in focus. There are many differences, but I find them interesting. Also, I was easily able to install Visual Studio 2008 and test it. Hello world etc work fine, with nice GUI integration. I like the built-in Skype, I like the app-style Facebook extra, I like the Android-style app shop(which also like Android, doesn't demand payment details unless you want to buy something). I like the way all and any hardware is integrated effortlessly, including wifi printing and scanning. I speak as someone who has been using Ubuntu exclusively at home for 4 years; MS has clearly done some Ubuntu/Linux homework and decided that good things a like seamless driver integration should be taken seriously, at last. And with the ecosystem control, they don't even nag about security anymore(although I installed Avast). For once, MS is being maligned for doing something actually good. :(
- you don't have to login that way. you can use a local account if you want just like in Win7. they do push that option pretty strongly though, but you can avoid it. I use Win8.1 with only a local account and it works fine. 2) when you say "close an app" with Alt-F4 do you mean a windows store app? (new fullscreen apps). You can run all the same destop apps as before in Win7 which close normally. Once you find the desktop in Win8.1 its pretty much just like Win7 (minus having to deal with putting everything on the taskbar and/or adding in your own start menu of sorts with a toolbar. Despite them putting the start screen and new style apps front and center you can use Win8 without really even using those.
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Yeah, they pretty much force it upon you when setting up Windows 8. Probably because it's "for the conveniance of the user"... like if I'd want to type in a password each time I want to use a tablet... Oh and the best part? If you used your live login with 8.0 and changed it to a local user: the update to Windows 8.1 just changed it back to the live login... X|
There is an option to install/activate/update to 8.1 without creating an MS account; but it's hidden in a way that's not easy to find (even if you are a computer geek) unless you've got a second computer with Google and know to search for it.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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You don't need a Google account to use Android. Unless you wan't to use the official App Store. Setting your Gmail account data for the phone gives you some features like cloud backups etc. but it's definitely not needed. Same goes for the iPhone if I remember correctly.
You're correct you don't have to have a gmail account - it just enables you to access google's store and lots of other google features.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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- you don't have to login that way. you can use a local account if you want just like in Win7. they do push that option pretty strongly though, but you can avoid it. I use Win8.1 with only a local account and it works fine. 2) when you say "close an app" with Alt-F4 do you mean a windows store app? (new fullscreen apps). You can run all the same destop apps as before in Win7 which close normally. Once you find the desktop in Win8.1 its pretty much just like Win7 (minus having to deal with putting everything on the taskbar and/or adding in your own start menu of sorts with a toolbar. Despite them putting the start screen and new style apps front and center you can use Win8 without really even using those.
What can I say? I didn't buy 8.1 because I want to imitate a twenty-year old window paradigm. I like 8.1. It's much better than 7, which is better than geriatric X Pee. Apart from my slight reservations, I like it better than desktop; desktop in Fedora Gnome 3 was rendered useless by insane security obsessiveness, desktop in Ubuntu is nice(2.5 Generation), 8.1 is a 3rd Generation GUI. I have to have a Windows machine for compatibility with work projects; the ability to get to the desktop was certainly nice when running VS2008 setup from explorer, but now it even has it's own tile, as do the individual LibreOffice applications I also installed. Obviously if I'd been really serious about it as a main box, I'd have looked for advice such as you give about local login, but hey, this is quite nice as it logs me into Skype, Hotmail and the Apps Store automatically, just like a phone or tablet. This is the first evidence I've seen in a decade that MS is really trying to make our lives better. And I think that they've done a good job. :cool:
"Shall I refuse my dinner because I do not fully understand the process of digestion?" - Oliver Heaviside
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You're correct you don't have to have a gmail account - it just enables you to access google's store and lots of other google features.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
So overall, exactly as Win 8 - you can avoid an MS account, but it will deny you access to some services unless you register for one. In fact I hate this model - having paid good money for hardware, it shouldn't be crippled without registering. Further, I shouldn't be prevented from accessing stores because I've had the temerity to tinker with my device. Imagine going to get a car serviced and they refused because you'd installed your own car radio. Or being refused service in a clothes shop becuase you'd sewn a patch onto the jacket you bought there.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough." Alan Kay.
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- you don't have to login that way. you can use a local account if you want just like in Win7. they do push that option pretty strongly though, but you can avoid it. I use Win8.1 with only a local account and it works fine. 2) when you say "close an app" with Alt-F4 do you mean a windows store app? (new fullscreen apps). You can run all the same destop apps as before in Win7 which close normally. Once you find the desktop in Win8.1 its pretty much just like Win7 (minus having to deal with putting everything on the taskbar and/or adding in your own start menu of sorts with a toolbar. Despite them putting the start screen and new style apps front and center you can use Win8 without really even using those.
Or installing a third party utility that acts as a start menu - I use classic shell (although I avoid their explorer windows - as usual choose your install options carefully). Then you get to have your cake and eat it.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough." Alan Kay.
-
While my hooky 7 license is stuck in the wonderfully efficient Deustche-Post system, as it has been for a month, I bought Windows 8.1 for one of my redundant boxes at the weekend. I must say, apart from just two things, it is quite pleasant to use. The first thing is the need for a Hotmail account to log into my own computer; big brother, slightly moreso than Android and gmail, but not obtrusive. The second is that to shut an application I needed alt-F4, there didn't appear to be any controls, just differences in focus. There are many differences, but I find them interesting. Also, I was easily able to install Visual Studio 2008 and test it. Hello world etc work fine, with nice GUI integration. I like the built-in Skype, I like the app-style Facebook extra, I like the Android-style app shop(which also like Android, doesn't demand payment details unless you want to buy something). I like the way all and any hardware is integrated effortlessly, including wifi printing and scanning. I speak as someone who has been using Ubuntu exclusively at home for 4 years; MS has clearly done some Ubuntu/Linux homework and decided that good things a like seamless driver integration should be taken seriously, at last. And with the ecosystem control, they don't even nag about security anymore(although I installed Avast). For once, MS is being maligned for doing something actually good. :(
Simon O'Riordan from UK wrote:
The first thing is the need for a Hotmail account to log into my own computer; big brother, slightly moreso than Android and gmail, but not obtrusive.
That's not quite true. If you want to have your configuration backed up and be able to roam it, you need a Microsoft Account (formerly Live ID), which can use any email address (my MS account's email address is a gmail account, though I'm moving away from gmail at this point). And I know you can create accounts that are strictly local -- no need to sign in with your MS Account.
