Are your former companies still around?
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djj55 wrote:
believe it was rif
What's "rif?"
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
Reduction in Force.
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In April, I will have been a professional developer for 26 years. I'm now working for my eleventh company as a paid employee (thus not counting all the contracts I've done.) Most the companies I worked for weren't very healthy and were having problems. Out of curiosity, I made a list of all the companies, whether I resigned or was laid off, whether they were profitable when I exited and if they are still around. Not counting my current position (a company that has always been quite profitable and still is), here are the results: Companies: 10 Resigned: 4** Profitable upon exit: 3* Still around: 4.5 (half for Novell which is a shadow of its former self.) * One company has a massive debt, but runs solidly in the black otherwise, so I counted it as profitable. Another has since recovered, but was losing money when I was laid off. I was laid off from a third the day it was bought. It was profitable and is still around, but the new owners have driven into the ground. ** One of the companies which isn't around is one I started and ran in the late 90s. On tax returns it made a profit until the very end, but only because I often didn't pay myself. After the CDROM-based infotainment market collapsed in 1997/98, I used the company for contracting. I made several thousand on my last contract and officially shut the company down at the end of that month. Still, I didn't count it as profitable. And, while I voluntarily exited, any other choice wasn't practical.
30+ years consulting/contracting (9 at the current place) and I have no idea how many places I have worked with, companies like Dell and NHS are still around, Wang went tits up and there are a myriad of financial organisations I have contracted to that are probably still around. Quite different to permie history I guess.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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A full time employee at 11 companies in 26 years yields an average length of service of ~2.4 years. Wow! :wtf: Not to be rude but... why do you change jobs so often? Surely that comes up in interviews. :omg: In February 2014 I will have been at my current company for 28 years. There have been a few non-profitable years here and there but as a whole we are quite profitable.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
6 company in 12 years since I'm in Australia. Hasn't been a problem, 2 years on average in a job is not problem, as far I experienced during my job interviews! This last one is really good, I'm preparing myself for a length record! :P
My programming get away... The Blog... DirectX for WinRT/C# since 2013! Taking over the world since 1371!
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In April, I will have been a professional developer for 26 years. I'm now working for my eleventh company as a paid employee (thus not counting all the contracts I've done.) Most the companies I worked for weren't very healthy and were having problems. Out of curiosity, I made a list of all the companies, whether I resigned or was laid off, whether they were profitable when I exited and if they are still around. Not counting my current position (a company that has always been quite profitable and still is), here are the results: Companies: 10 Resigned: 4** Profitable upon exit: 3* Still around: 4.5 (half for Novell which is a shadow of its former self.) * One company has a massive debt, but runs solidly in the black otherwise, so I counted it as profitable. Another has since recovered, but was losing money when I was laid off. I was laid off from a third the day it was bought. It was profitable and is still around, but the new owners have driven into the ground. ** One of the companies which isn't around is one I started and ran in the late 90s. On tax returns it made a profit until the very end, but only because I often didn't pay myself. After the CDROM-based infotainment market collapsed in 1997/98, I used the company for contracting. I made several thousand on my last contract and officially shut the company down at the end of that month. Still, I didn't count it as profitable. And, while I voluntarily exited, any other choice wasn't practical.
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In April, I will have been a professional developer for 26 years. I'm now working for my eleventh company as a paid employee (thus not counting all the contracts I've done.) Most the companies I worked for weren't very healthy and were having problems. Out of curiosity, I made a list of all the companies, whether I resigned or was laid off, whether they were profitable when I exited and if they are still around. Not counting my current position (a company that has always been quite profitable and still is), here are the results: Companies: 10 Resigned: 4** Profitable upon exit: 3* Still around: 4.5 (half for Novell which is a shadow of its former self.) * One company has a massive debt, but runs solidly in the black otherwise, so I counted it as profitable. Another has since recovered, but was losing money when I was laid off. I was laid off from a third the day it was bought. It was profitable and is still around, but the new owners have driven into the ground. ** One of the companies which isn't around is one I started and ran in the late 90s. On tax returns it made a profit until the very end, but only because I often didn't pay myself. After the CDROM-based infotainment market collapsed in 1997/98, I used the company for contracting. I made several thousand on my last contract and officially shut the company down at the end of that month. Still, I didn't count it as profitable. And, while I voluntarily exited, any other choice wasn't practical.
Two companies in 45 years. I worked for the first company for 21 years, and left because I was head-hunted. It's still around, albeit in a much changed form (mergers / takeovers etc.). Current company for 24 yesrs so far (retiring next year !)
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
I wonder if there is an inverse causation between employee turnover and company stability.
It's one giant feedback loop. Companies grow unstable, people bail; people bail, company grows unstable. (Company has layoff, thinking it will solve everything; it makes things worse, usually because they laid off the wrong people and the talented engineers start bailing and you get the feedback loop going.) A big factor for software companies is that traditionally, they rarely gave raises and any bonuses were often in the form of stock options. Except for Novell, I've never worked at a company which gave me more than one raise and half didn't even bother. Until just a few years ago, it was openly stated in the software [only] industry that if you wanted a raise, you changed jobs.
Joe Woodbury wrote:
Except for Novell, I've never worked at a company which gave me more than one raise and half didn't even bother. Until just a few years ago, it was openly stated in the software [only] industry that if you wanted a raise, you changed jobs.
OMG!! Are you serious? It's no wonder these companies are failing left and right. I had no idea.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
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In April, I will have been a professional developer for 26 years. I'm now working for my eleventh company as a paid employee (thus not counting all the contracts I've done.) Most the companies I worked for weren't very healthy and were having problems. Out of curiosity, I made a list of all the companies, whether I resigned or was laid off, whether they were profitable when I exited and if they are still around. Not counting my current position (a company that has always been quite profitable and still is), here are the results: Companies: 10 Resigned: 4** Profitable upon exit: 3* Still around: 4.5 (half for Novell which is a shadow of its former self.) * One company has a massive debt, but runs solidly in the black otherwise, so I counted it as profitable. Another has since recovered, but was losing money when I was laid off. I was laid off from a third the day it was bought. It was profitable and is still around, but the new owners have driven into the ground. ** One of the companies which isn't around is one I started and ran in the late 90s. On tax returns it made a profit until the very end, but only because I often didn't pay myself. After the CDROM-based infotainment market collapsed in 1997/98, I used the company for contracting. I made several thousand on my last contract and officially shut the company down at the end of that month. Still, I didn't count it as profitable. And, while I voluntarily exited, any other choice wasn't practical.
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In April, I will have been a professional developer for 26 years. I'm now working for my eleventh company as a paid employee (thus not counting all the contracts I've done.) Most the companies I worked for weren't very healthy and were having problems. Out of curiosity, I made a list of all the companies, whether I resigned or was laid off, whether they were profitable when I exited and if they are still around. Not counting my current position (a company that has always been quite profitable and still is), here are the results: Companies: 10 Resigned: 4** Profitable upon exit: 3* Still around: 4.5 (half for Novell which is a shadow of its former self.) * One company has a massive debt, but runs solidly in the black otherwise, so I counted it as profitable. Another has since recovered, but was losing money when I was laid off. I was laid off from a third the day it was bought. It was profitable and is still around, but the new owners have driven into the ground. ** One of the companies which isn't around is one I started and ran in the late 90s. On tax returns it made a profit until the very end, but only because I often didn't pay myself. After the CDROM-based infotainment market collapsed in 1997/98, I used the company for contracting. I made several thousand on my last contract and officially shut the company down at the end of that month. Still, I didn't count it as profitable. And, while I voluntarily exited, any other choice wasn't practical.
Excluding the (not tech related) temping I did during school/after graduation my entire professional career's been with my current employer; I'm coming up on my 9th anniversary here. We're a contractor so I haven't worked on just one thing my entire time; but the rapid turn over of many contracts combined with our biggest customer (the US Govt) being on an austerity kick the last few years things are rather shaky at present although I think my current safety window is longer than it's been for a while.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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In April, I will have been a professional developer for 26 years. I'm now working for my eleventh company as a paid employee (thus not counting all the contracts I've done.) Most the companies I worked for weren't very healthy and were having problems. Out of curiosity, I made a list of all the companies, whether I resigned or was laid off, whether they were profitable when I exited and if they are still around. Not counting my current position (a company that has always been quite profitable and still is), here are the results: Companies: 10 Resigned: 4** Profitable upon exit: 3* Still around: 4.5 (half for Novell which is a shadow of its former self.) * One company has a massive debt, but runs solidly in the black otherwise, so I counted it as profitable. Another has since recovered, but was losing money when I was laid off. I was laid off from a third the day it was bought. It was profitable and is still around, but the new owners have driven into the ground. ** One of the companies which isn't around is one I started and ran in the late 90s. On tax returns it made a profit until the very end, but only because I often didn't pay myself. After the CDROM-based infotainment market collapsed in 1997/98, I used the company for contracting. I made several thousand on my last contract and officially shut the company down at the end of that month. Still, I didn't count it as profitable. And, while I voluntarily exited, any other choice wasn't practical.
I have been in the dev businness for around 15 years, and the count goes: 1 company only. However, that company went through a bit more than half a dozen names thanks to various merging and acquisition: eXplora, Usweb, Usweb/CKS, marchFirst (ah those wild years 2000/2001), Unilog, Logica and now CGI.... I started in the UK, and lived there for 5 years and came back to my home country 10 years ago without resigning (I resigned in the UK to work for the same company but in a french branch). I'm currently serving my notice period, I'm moving on and will start working for a new employer who is not a ITS company.
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In April, I will have been a professional developer for 26 years. I'm now working for my eleventh company as a paid employee (thus not counting all the contracts I've done.) Most the companies I worked for weren't very healthy and were having problems. Out of curiosity, I made a list of all the companies, whether I resigned or was laid off, whether they were profitable when I exited and if they are still around. Not counting my current position (a company that has always been quite profitable and still is), here are the results: Companies: 10 Resigned: 4** Profitable upon exit: 3* Still around: 4.5 (half for Novell which is a shadow of its former self.) * One company has a massive debt, but runs solidly in the black otherwise, so I counted it as profitable. Another has since recovered, but was losing money when I was laid off. I was laid off from a third the day it was bought. It was profitable and is still around, but the new owners have driven into the ground. ** One of the companies which isn't around is one I started and ran in the late 90s. On tax returns it made a profit until the very end, but only because I often didn't pay myself. After the CDROM-based infotainment market collapsed in 1997/98, I used the company for contracting. I made several thousand on my last contract and officially shut the company down at the end of that month. Still, I didn't count it as profitable. And, while I voluntarily exited, any other choice wasn't practical.
Great question!! I have been a developer for 17 years and have worked for 5 companies: 1 is in hibernation as its owner wakes it up only when a project comes up, cashes the first payment and dissappears. :laugh: 3 are alive and prosperous. :) 1 was a startup that died a year after I left. :((
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Forogar wrote:
you wouldn't even get to the interview stage with that record.
Just out of curiosity... what negative attribute would be assumed about someone for staying at one company for 28 years?
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
One negative, and the other posts point to this, is that a LOT of people don't have 28 years of experience. They have the SAME 2yrs of experience 14yrs in a row. (Some have 1yr of experience 28yrs in a row!). Overall, stability is not an issue. It is the ability to deal with a pace of change. It is the ability to adapt. On the other hand, look at this guys company. If it takes 2yrs to get up to speed, someone who sticks around for ONLY 3yrs will bankrupt you! You never get more than 50% out of the training investment. You have to consider that.
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Different worlds I guess - At my company it doesn't matter if a new hire is fresh out of school, has 15 years experience at 7 different companies using all the latest whiz-bang stuff or a 30 year PhD specialist - they're going to be learning a lot about our machines, controls and industry for at least 2 years before they start to become productive. If we don't try to avoid job hoppers we're dead - hell, I'm pissed when one of our engineers leaves in less than 10 years. :doh:
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
Different worlds, indeed. If it takes two years to get up to speed, that's a completely different animal than, for instance, what I'm currently doing. It took me no time to ramp up with the technology, and only a week or two to really feel what's going on. I've had nine jobs, ranging from 6 months to 7 years. The 6 month thing - they treated employees with no respect/reward so an old guy like me will stand up to them ... and get fired :) I've currently got a great situation that I hope to hold for many years, but ya never know. It's in the auto industry - any bets?
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In April, I will have been a professional developer for 26 years. I'm now working for my eleventh company as a paid employee (thus not counting all the contracts I've done.) Most the companies I worked for weren't very healthy and were having problems. Out of curiosity, I made a list of all the companies, whether I resigned or was laid off, whether they were profitable when I exited and if they are still around. Not counting my current position (a company that has always been quite profitable and still is), here are the results: Companies: 10 Resigned: 4** Profitable upon exit: 3* Still around: 4.5 (half for Novell which is a shadow of its former self.) * One company has a massive debt, but runs solidly in the black otherwise, so I counted it as profitable. Another has since recovered, but was losing money when I was laid off. I was laid off from a third the day it was bought. It was profitable and is still around, but the new owners have driven into the ground. ** One of the companies which isn't around is one I started and ran in the late 90s. On tax returns it made a profit until the very end, but only because I often didn't pay myself. After the CDROM-based infotainment market collapsed in 1997/98, I used the company for contracting. I made several thousand on my last contract and officially shut the company down at the end of that month. Still, I didn't count it as profitable. And, while I voluntarily exited, any other choice wasn't practical.
This is an interesting question. 30yrs, 10 Companies, but very skewed. 4 of them were "short" (in months) because the match was not good, or it was an internship. [I was hired to do OS/2 programming, but they cancelled that and put me in a mainframe group, LOL. This is just over 14months total time for all 4 of them. Once company hired me, and then merged with another company my first week on the job. I think it was rude of them to offer me the position, but the manager who hired me had no idea it was happening.] So that leaves 6 companies in reality, in roughly 28 years, which feels more appropriate. I tend to stick around a few years. 3 of the 6 companies are no longer around (one is dying slowly, having laid everyone but the owner off) Again, an interesting question.
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In April, I will have been a professional developer for 26 years. I'm now working for my eleventh company as a paid employee (thus not counting all the contracts I've done.) Most the companies I worked for weren't very healthy and were having problems. Out of curiosity, I made a list of all the companies, whether I resigned or was laid off, whether they were profitable when I exited and if they are still around. Not counting my current position (a company that has always been quite profitable and still is), here are the results: Companies: 10 Resigned: 4** Profitable upon exit: 3* Still around: 4.5 (half for Novell which is a shadow of its former self.) * One company has a massive debt, but runs solidly in the black otherwise, so I counted it as profitable. Another has since recovered, but was losing money when I was laid off. I was laid off from a third the day it was bought. It was profitable and is still around, but the new owners have driven into the ground. ** One of the companies which isn't around is one I started and ran in the late 90s. On tax returns it made a profit until the very end, but only because I often didn't pay myself. After the CDROM-based infotainment market collapsed in 1997/98, I used the company for contracting. I made several thousand on my last contract and officially shut the company down at the end of that month. Still, I didn't count it as profitable. And, while I voluntarily exited, any other choice wasn't practical.
Company 1 (WordPerfect) merged with Company 2 (Novell) in 1994. Company 2 sold off my part of what it obtained from Company 1 to Company 3 (Corel) in 1996. Left Company 3 later in 1996 to join Company 4 (Mirror Software). Company 4 went into receivership in 1999, layed off all employees, and sold all IP to Company 4a Canfield Scientific. Returned to Company 2 in 1999. Left Company 2 (this time on my own terms) in 2009 to join Company 5 (IDENTiTY AUTOMATiON) where I remain. The product I developed at Companies 1, 2 (the first time around) & 3 (WordPerfect) is still sold by Company 3 18 years later, largely unchanged from when I left it and I believe is responsible for the bulk of that company's revenue. The product I developed at Company 4 is still being sold largely unchanged by Company 4a. The product I developed at Company 2 the second time around (Novell Identity Manager) is still being sold by NetIQ, a subsidiary of the Attachmate Group which acquired Novell after I left, and is responsible for a large portion of NetIQ's revenue. Company 5 is thriving and growing selling products I continue to develop.
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Company 1 (WordPerfect) merged with Company 2 (Novell) in 1994. Company 2 sold off my part of what it obtained from Company 1 to Company 3 (Corel) in 1996. Left Company 3 later in 1996 to join Company 4 (Mirror Software). Company 4 went into receivership in 1999, layed off all employees, and sold all IP to Company 4a Canfield Scientific. Returned to Company 2 in 1999. Left Company 2 (this time on my own terms) in 2009 to join Company 5 (IDENTiTY AUTOMATiON) where I remain. The product I developed at Companies 1, 2 (the first time around) & 3 (WordPerfect) is still sold by Company 3 18 years later, largely unchanged from when I left it and I believe is responsible for the bulk of that company's revenue. The product I developed at Company 4 is still being sold largely unchanged by Company 4a. The product I developed at Company 2 the second time around (Novell Identity Manager) is still being sold by NetIQ, a subsidiary of the Attachmate Group which acquired Novell after I left, and is responsible for a large portion of NetIQ's revenue. Company 5 is thriving and growing selling products I continue to develop.
I got laid off from Novell just before the merger fiasco began--it still amazes me that regardless of the friendship between Noorda and Ashton, Novell paid $1.1 billion for a company arguably worth no more than a third of that. My youngest brother went through the WordPerfect/Novell/Corel thing.
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In April, I will have been a professional developer for 26 years. I'm now working for my eleventh company as a paid employee (thus not counting all the contracts I've done.) Most the companies I worked for weren't very healthy and were having problems. Out of curiosity, I made a list of all the companies, whether I resigned or was laid off, whether they were profitable when I exited and if they are still around. Not counting my current position (a company that has always been quite profitable and still is), here are the results: Companies: 10 Resigned: 4** Profitable upon exit: 3* Still around: 4.5 (half for Novell which is a shadow of its former self.) * One company has a massive debt, but runs solidly in the black otherwise, so I counted it as profitable. Another has since recovered, but was losing money when I was laid off. I was laid off from a third the day it was bought. It was profitable and is still around, but the new owners have driven into the ground. ** One of the companies which isn't around is one I started and ran in the late 90s. On tax returns it made a profit until the very end, but only because I often didn't pay myself. After the CDROM-based infotainment market collapsed in 1997/98, I used the company for contracting. I made several thousand on my last contract and officially shut the company down at the end of that month. Still, I didn't count it as profitable. And, while I voluntarily exited, any other choice wasn't practical.
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I've been at this 34 years. Companies: 11 (not counting current position) Still around: 7 The companies that are not around any more were mostly not small companies, but stripped for their assets and left to rot. Didn't take long.
14 years experience 4 companies One folded the branch I worked at after 4 years (I was picked up by the sub-contractor), I left that sub a couple years later out of boredom after programming myself out of a job, Another (non-profit) paid ludicrous wages for 9 months then could no longer afford me, Lastly my current position... All still exist and the current corp is a goliath that will "never" die, going on 7 years working for them. I do get (small) raises yearly and the pay/work/commute/people combo is hard to beat so I am grateful. I must upgrade my skills though, it is easier to get complacent when doing the same job for an extended period, hard to leave when that job is awesome. I may move to the white hot cyber security realm from my web development background...if I can just motivate myself to study/work after a long workday ends...*sigh*
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I have worked for the US government since 1991 - active duty Air Force communications officer for 11 years and now a contracted SW engineer since 2002. The US govt is still around! ;)
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In April, I will have been a professional developer for 26 years. I'm now working for my eleventh company as a paid employee (thus not counting all the contracts I've done.) Most the companies I worked for weren't very healthy and were having problems. Out of curiosity, I made a list of all the companies, whether I resigned or was laid off, whether they were profitable when I exited and if they are still around. Not counting my current position (a company that has always been quite profitable and still is), here are the results: Companies: 10 Resigned: 4** Profitable upon exit: 3* Still around: 4.5 (half for Novell which is a shadow of its former self.) * One company has a massive debt, but runs solidly in the black otherwise, so I counted it as profitable. Another has since recovered, but was losing money when I was laid off. I was laid off from a third the day it was bought. It was profitable and is still around, but the new owners have driven into the ground. ** One of the companies which isn't around is one I started and ran in the late 90s. On tax returns it made a profit until the very end, but only because I often didn't pay myself. After the CDROM-based infotainment market collapsed in 1997/98, I used the company for contracting. I made several thousand on my last contract and officially shut the company down at the end of that month. Still, I didn't count it as profitable. And, while I voluntarily exited, any other choice wasn't practical.
I'm on 24 years; Two companies in that time, although the 2nd company bought my service under a transfer of undertaking during an asset sale, so technically I'm still on one. My first company was BP, it is still around...the gulf incident could have changed that had they not got it under control.
Dave Find Me On: Web|Facebook|Twitter|LinkedIn|GitHub
Folding Stats: Team CodeProject
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In April, I will have been a professional developer for 26 years. I'm now working for my eleventh company as a paid employee (thus not counting all the contracts I've done.) Most the companies I worked for weren't very healthy and were having problems. Out of curiosity, I made a list of all the companies, whether I resigned or was laid off, whether they were profitable when I exited and if they are still around. Not counting my current position (a company that has always been quite profitable and still is), here are the results: Companies: 10 Resigned: 4** Profitable upon exit: 3* Still around: 4.5 (half for Novell which is a shadow of its former self.) * One company has a massive debt, but runs solidly in the black otherwise, so I counted it as profitable. Another has since recovered, but was losing money when I was laid off. I was laid off from a third the day it was bought. It was profitable and is still around, but the new owners have driven into the ground. ** One of the companies which isn't around is one I started and ran in the late 90s. On tax returns it made a profit until the very end, but only because I often didn't pay myself. After the CDROM-based infotainment market collapsed in 1997/98, I used the company for contracting. I made several thousand on my last contract and officially shut the company down at the end of that month. Still, I didn't count it as profitable. And, while I voluntarily exited, any other choice wasn't practical.
