Are your former companies still around?
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In April, I will have been a professional developer for 26 years. I'm now working for my eleventh company as a paid employee (thus not counting all the contracts I've done.) Most the companies I worked for weren't very healthy and were having problems. Out of curiosity, I made a list of all the companies, whether I resigned or was laid off, whether they were profitable when I exited and if they are still around. Not counting my current position (a company that has always been quite profitable and still is), here are the results: Companies: 10 Resigned: 4** Profitable upon exit: 3* Still around: 4.5 (half for Novell which is a shadow of its former self.) * One company has a massive debt, but runs solidly in the black otherwise, so I counted it as profitable. Another has since recovered, but was losing money when I was laid off. I was laid off from a third the day it was bought. It was profitable and is still around, but the new owners have driven into the ground. ** One of the companies which isn't around is one I started and ran in the late 90s. On tax returns it made a profit until the very end, but only because I often didn't pay myself. After the CDROM-based infotainment market collapsed in 1997/98, I used the company for contracting. I made several thousand on my last contract and officially shut the company down at the end of that month. Still, I didn't count it as profitable. And, while I voluntarily exited, any other choice wasn't practical.
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In April, I will have been a professional developer for 26 years. I'm now working for my eleventh company as a paid employee (thus not counting all the contracts I've done.) Most the companies I worked for weren't very healthy and were having problems. Out of curiosity, I made a list of all the companies, whether I resigned or was laid off, whether they were profitable when I exited and if they are still around. Not counting my current position (a company that has always been quite profitable and still is), here are the results: Companies: 10 Resigned: 4** Profitable upon exit: 3* Still around: 4.5 (half for Novell which is a shadow of its former self.) * One company has a massive debt, but runs solidly in the black otherwise, so I counted it as profitable. Another has since recovered, but was losing money when I was laid off. I was laid off from a third the day it was bought. It was profitable and is still around, but the new owners have driven into the ground. ** One of the companies which isn't around is one I started and ran in the late 90s. On tax returns it made a profit until the very end, but only because I often didn't pay myself. After the CDROM-based infotainment market collapsed in 1997/98, I used the company for contracting. I made several thousand on my last contract and officially shut the company down at the end of that month. Still, I didn't count it as profitable. And, while I voluntarily exited, any other choice wasn't practical.
Excluding the (not tech related) temping I did during school/after graduation my entire professional career's been with my current employer; I'm coming up on my 9th anniversary here. We're a contractor so I haven't worked on just one thing my entire time; but the rapid turn over of many contracts combined with our biggest customer (the US Govt) being on an austerity kick the last few years things are rather shaky at present although I think my current safety window is longer than it's been for a while.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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In April, I will have been a professional developer for 26 years. I'm now working for my eleventh company as a paid employee (thus not counting all the contracts I've done.) Most the companies I worked for weren't very healthy and were having problems. Out of curiosity, I made a list of all the companies, whether I resigned or was laid off, whether they were profitable when I exited and if they are still around. Not counting my current position (a company that has always been quite profitable and still is), here are the results: Companies: 10 Resigned: 4** Profitable upon exit: 3* Still around: 4.5 (half for Novell which is a shadow of its former self.) * One company has a massive debt, but runs solidly in the black otherwise, so I counted it as profitable. Another has since recovered, but was losing money when I was laid off. I was laid off from a third the day it was bought. It was profitable and is still around, but the new owners have driven into the ground. ** One of the companies which isn't around is one I started and ran in the late 90s. On tax returns it made a profit until the very end, but only because I often didn't pay myself. After the CDROM-based infotainment market collapsed in 1997/98, I used the company for contracting. I made several thousand on my last contract and officially shut the company down at the end of that month. Still, I didn't count it as profitable. And, while I voluntarily exited, any other choice wasn't practical.
I have been in the dev businness for around 15 years, and the count goes: 1 company only. However, that company went through a bit more than half a dozen names thanks to various merging and acquisition: eXplora, Usweb, Usweb/CKS, marchFirst (ah those wild years 2000/2001), Unilog, Logica and now CGI.... I started in the UK, and lived there for 5 years and came back to my home country 10 years ago without resigning (I resigned in the UK to work for the same company but in a french branch). I'm currently serving my notice period, I'm moving on and will start working for a new employer who is not a ITS company.
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In April, I will have been a professional developer for 26 years. I'm now working for my eleventh company as a paid employee (thus not counting all the contracts I've done.) Most the companies I worked for weren't very healthy and were having problems. Out of curiosity, I made a list of all the companies, whether I resigned or was laid off, whether they were profitable when I exited and if they are still around. Not counting my current position (a company that has always been quite profitable and still is), here are the results: Companies: 10 Resigned: 4** Profitable upon exit: 3* Still around: 4.5 (half for Novell which is a shadow of its former self.) * One company has a massive debt, but runs solidly in the black otherwise, so I counted it as profitable. Another has since recovered, but was losing money when I was laid off. I was laid off from a third the day it was bought. It was profitable and is still around, but the new owners have driven into the ground. ** One of the companies which isn't around is one I started and ran in the late 90s. On tax returns it made a profit until the very end, but only because I often didn't pay myself. After the CDROM-based infotainment market collapsed in 1997/98, I used the company for contracting. I made several thousand on my last contract and officially shut the company down at the end of that month. Still, I didn't count it as profitable. And, while I voluntarily exited, any other choice wasn't practical.
Great question!! I have been a developer for 17 years and have worked for 5 companies: 1 is in hibernation as its owner wakes it up only when a project comes up, cashes the first payment and dissappears. :laugh: 3 are alive and prosperous. :) 1 was a startup that died a year after I left. :((
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Forogar wrote:
you wouldn't even get to the interview stage with that record.
Just out of curiosity... what negative attribute would be assumed about someone for staying at one company for 28 years?
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
One negative, and the other posts point to this, is that a LOT of people don't have 28 years of experience. They have the SAME 2yrs of experience 14yrs in a row. (Some have 1yr of experience 28yrs in a row!). Overall, stability is not an issue. It is the ability to deal with a pace of change. It is the ability to adapt. On the other hand, look at this guys company. If it takes 2yrs to get up to speed, someone who sticks around for ONLY 3yrs will bankrupt you! You never get more than 50% out of the training investment. You have to consider that.
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Different worlds I guess - At my company it doesn't matter if a new hire is fresh out of school, has 15 years experience at 7 different companies using all the latest whiz-bang stuff or a 30 year PhD specialist - they're going to be learning a lot about our machines, controls and industry for at least 2 years before they start to become productive. If we don't try to avoid job hoppers we're dead - hell, I'm pissed when one of our engineers leaves in less than 10 years. :doh:
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. ~ George Washington
Different worlds, indeed. If it takes two years to get up to speed, that's a completely different animal than, for instance, what I'm currently doing. It took me no time to ramp up with the technology, and only a week or two to really feel what's going on. I've had nine jobs, ranging from 6 months to 7 years. The 6 month thing - they treated employees with no respect/reward so an old guy like me will stand up to them ... and get fired :) I've currently got a great situation that I hope to hold for many years, but ya never know. It's in the auto industry - any bets?
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In April, I will have been a professional developer for 26 years. I'm now working for my eleventh company as a paid employee (thus not counting all the contracts I've done.) Most the companies I worked for weren't very healthy and were having problems. Out of curiosity, I made a list of all the companies, whether I resigned or was laid off, whether they were profitable when I exited and if they are still around. Not counting my current position (a company that has always been quite profitable and still is), here are the results: Companies: 10 Resigned: 4** Profitable upon exit: 3* Still around: 4.5 (half for Novell which is a shadow of its former self.) * One company has a massive debt, but runs solidly in the black otherwise, so I counted it as profitable. Another has since recovered, but was losing money when I was laid off. I was laid off from a third the day it was bought. It was profitable and is still around, but the new owners have driven into the ground. ** One of the companies which isn't around is one I started and ran in the late 90s. On tax returns it made a profit until the very end, but only because I often didn't pay myself. After the CDROM-based infotainment market collapsed in 1997/98, I used the company for contracting. I made several thousand on my last contract and officially shut the company down at the end of that month. Still, I didn't count it as profitable. And, while I voluntarily exited, any other choice wasn't practical.
This is an interesting question. 30yrs, 10 Companies, but very skewed. 4 of them were "short" (in months) because the match was not good, or it was an internship. [I was hired to do OS/2 programming, but they cancelled that and put me in a mainframe group, LOL. This is just over 14months total time for all 4 of them. Once company hired me, and then merged with another company my first week on the job. I think it was rude of them to offer me the position, but the manager who hired me had no idea it was happening.] So that leaves 6 companies in reality, in roughly 28 years, which feels more appropriate. I tend to stick around a few years. 3 of the 6 companies are no longer around (one is dying slowly, having laid everyone but the owner off) Again, an interesting question.
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In April, I will have been a professional developer for 26 years. I'm now working for my eleventh company as a paid employee (thus not counting all the contracts I've done.) Most the companies I worked for weren't very healthy and were having problems. Out of curiosity, I made a list of all the companies, whether I resigned or was laid off, whether they were profitable when I exited and if they are still around. Not counting my current position (a company that has always been quite profitable and still is), here are the results: Companies: 10 Resigned: 4** Profitable upon exit: 3* Still around: 4.5 (half for Novell which is a shadow of its former self.) * One company has a massive debt, but runs solidly in the black otherwise, so I counted it as profitable. Another has since recovered, but was losing money when I was laid off. I was laid off from a third the day it was bought. It was profitable and is still around, but the new owners have driven into the ground. ** One of the companies which isn't around is one I started and ran in the late 90s. On tax returns it made a profit until the very end, but only because I often didn't pay myself. After the CDROM-based infotainment market collapsed in 1997/98, I used the company for contracting. I made several thousand on my last contract and officially shut the company down at the end of that month. Still, I didn't count it as profitable. And, while I voluntarily exited, any other choice wasn't practical.
Company 1 (WordPerfect) merged with Company 2 (Novell) in 1994. Company 2 sold off my part of what it obtained from Company 1 to Company 3 (Corel) in 1996. Left Company 3 later in 1996 to join Company 4 (Mirror Software). Company 4 went into receivership in 1999, layed off all employees, and sold all IP to Company 4a Canfield Scientific. Returned to Company 2 in 1999. Left Company 2 (this time on my own terms) in 2009 to join Company 5 (IDENTiTY AUTOMATiON) where I remain. The product I developed at Companies 1, 2 (the first time around) & 3 (WordPerfect) is still sold by Company 3 18 years later, largely unchanged from when I left it and I believe is responsible for the bulk of that company's revenue. The product I developed at Company 4 is still being sold largely unchanged by Company 4a. The product I developed at Company 2 the second time around (Novell Identity Manager) is still being sold by NetIQ, a subsidiary of the Attachmate Group which acquired Novell after I left, and is responsible for a large portion of NetIQ's revenue. Company 5 is thriving and growing selling products I continue to develop.
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Company 1 (WordPerfect) merged with Company 2 (Novell) in 1994. Company 2 sold off my part of what it obtained from Company 1 to Company 3 (Corel) in 1996. Left Company 3 later in 1996 to join Company 4 (Mirror Software). Company 4 went into receivership in 1999, layed off all employees, and sold all IP to Company 4a Canfield Scientific. Returned to Company 2 in 1999. Left Company 2 (this time on my own terms) in 2009 to join Company 5 (IDENTiTY AUTOMATiON) where I remain. The product I developed at Companies 1, 2 (the first time around) & 3 (WordPerfect) is still sold by Company 3 18 years later, largely unchanged from when I left it and I believe is responsible for the bulk of that company's revenue. The product I developed at Company 4 is still being sold largely unchanged by Company 4a. The product I developed at Company 2 the second time around (Novell Identity Manager) is still being sold by NetIQ, a subsidiary of the Attachmate Group which acquired Novell after I left, and is responsible for a large portion of NetIQ's revenue. Company 5 is thriving and growing selling products I continue to develop.
I got laid off from Novell just before the merger fiasco began--it still amazes me that regardless of the friendship between Noorda and Ashton, Novell paid $1.1 billion for a company arguably worth no more than a third of that. My youngest brother went through the WordPerfect/Novell/Corel thing.
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In April, I will have been a professional developer for 26 years. I'm now working for my eleventh company as a paid employee (thus not counting all the contracts I've done.) Most the companies I worked for weren't very healthy and were having problems. Out of curiosity, I made a list of all the companies, whether I resigned or was laid off, whether they were profitable when I exited and if they are still around. Not counting my current position (a company that has always been quite profitable and still is), here are the results: Companies: 10 Resigned: 4** Profitable upon exit: 3* Still around: 4.5 (half for Novell which is a shadow of its former self.) * One company has a massive debt, but runs solidly in the black otherwise, so I counted it as profitable. Another has since recovered, but was losing money when I was laid off. I was laid off from a third the day it was bought. It was profitable and is still around, but the new owners have driven into the ground. ** One of the companies which isn't around is one I started and ran in the late 90s. On tax returns it made a profit until the very end, but only because I often didn't pay myself. After the CDROM-based infotainment market collapsed in 1997/98, I used the company for contracting. I made several thousand on my last contract and officially shut the company down at the end of that month. Still, I didn't count it as profitable. And, while I voluntarily exited, any other choice wasn't practical.
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I've been at this 34 years. Companies: 11 (not counting current position) Still around: 7 The companies that are not around any more were mostly not small companies, but stripped for their assets and left to rot. Didn't take long.
14 years experience 4 companies One folded the branch I worked at after 4 years (I was picked up by the sub-contractor), I left that sub a couple years later out of boredom after programming myself out of a job, Another (non-profit) paid ludicrous wages for 9 months then could no longer afford me, Lastly my current position... All still exist and the current corp is a goliath that will "never" die, going on 7 years working for them. I do get (small) raises yearly and the pay/work/commute/people combo is hard to beat so I am grateful. I must upgrade my skills though, it is easier to get complacent when doing the same job for an extended period, hard to leave when that job is awesome. I may move to the white hot cyber security realm from my web development background...if I can just motivate myself to study/work after a long workday ends...*sigh*
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I have worked for the US government since 1991 - active duty Air Force communications officer for 11 years and now a contracted SW engineer since 2002. The US govt is still around! ;)
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In April, I will have been a professional developer for 26 years. I'm now working for my eleventh company as a paid employee (thus not counting all the contracts I've done.) Most the companies I worked for weren't very healthy and were having problems. Out of curiosity, I made a list of all the companies, whether I resigned or was laid off, whether they were profitable when I exited and if they are still around. Not counting my current position (a company that has always been quite profitable and still is), here are the results: Companies: 10 Resigned: 4** Profitable upon exit: 3* Still around: 4.5 (half for Novell which is a shadow of its former self.) * One company has a massive debt, but runs solidly in the black otherwise, so I counted it as profitable. Another has since recovered, but was losing money when I was laid off. I was laid off from a third the day it was bought. It was profitable and is still around, but the new owners have driven into the ground. ** One of the companies which isn't around is one I started and ran in the late 90s. On tax returns it made a profit until the very end, but only because I often didn't pay myself. After the CDROM-based infotainment market collapsed in 1997/98, I used the company for contracting. I made several thousand on my last contract and officially shut the company down at the end of that month. Still, I didn't count it as profitable. And, while I voluntarily exited, any other choice wasn't practical.
I'm on 24 years; Two companies in that time, although the 2nd company bought my service under a transfer of undertaking during an asset sale, so technically I'm still on one. My first company was BP, it is still around...the gulf incident could have changed that had they not got it under control.
Dave Find Me On: Web|Facebook|Twitter|LinkedIn|GitHub
Folding Stats: Team CodeProject
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In April, I will have been a professional developer for 26 years. I'm now working for my eleventh company as a paid employee (thus not counting all the contracts I've done.) Most the companies I worked for weren't very healthy and were having problems. Out of curiosity, I made a list of all the companies, whether I resigned or was laid off, whether they were profitable when I exited and if they are still around. Not counting my current position (a company that has always been quite profitable and still is), here are the results: Companies: 10 Resigned: 4** Profitable upon exit: 3* Still around: 4.5 (half for Novell which is a shadow of its former self.) * One company has a massive debt, but runs solidly in the black otherwise, so I counted it as profitable. Another has since recovered, but was losing money when I was laid off. I was laid off from a third the day it was bought. It was profitable and is still around, but the new owners have driven into the ground. ** One of the companies which isn't around is one I started and ran in the late 90s. On tax returns it made a profit until the very end, but only because I often didn't pay myself. After the CDROM-based infotainment market collapsed in 1997/98, I used the company for contracting. I made several thousand on my last contract and officially shut the company down at the end of that month. Still, I didn't count it as profitable. And, while I voluntarily exited, any other choice wasn't practical.
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In April, I will have been a professional developer for 26 years. I'm now working for my eleventh company as a paid employee (thus not counting all the contracts I've done.) Most the companies I worked for weren't very healthy and were having problems. Out of curiosity, I made a list of all the companies, whether I resigned or was laid off, whether they were profitable when I exited and if they are still around. Not counting my current position (a company that has always been quite profitable and still is), here are the results: Companies: 10 Resigned: 4** Profitable upon exit: 3* Still around: 4.5 (half for Novell which is a shadow of its former self.) * One company has a massive debt, but runs solidly in the black otherwise, so I counted it as profitable. Another has since recovered, but was losing money when I was laid off. I was laid off from a third the day it was bought. It was profitable and is still around, but the new owners have driven into the ground. ** One of the companies which isn't around is one I started and ran in the late 90s. On tax returns it made a profit until the very end, but only because I often didn't pay myself. After the CDROM-based infotainment market collapsed in 1997/98, I used the company for contracting. I made several thousand on my last contract and officially shut the company down at the end of that month. Still, I didn't count it as profitable. And, while I voluntarily exited, any other choice wasn't practical.
Over 40 years of programming professionally, I've worked for 9 other companies besides my current position. I should have had my head examined for staying at one company for 17 years before being downsized, but it was a steady paycheck despite management problems. Of those 9, only 1 still exists (2 if you count being purchased by another company). One company announced bankruptcy the day after my last (I had quit), so I guess they rightly concluded they could not continue without me. :laugh: That's my story and I'm sticking to it. They were a very large company and I was quite surprised when I heard the news. One, in particular, all ex-employees are particularly bitter about. We had thought we had a winning combination of products and talent, but management drove us into the ground. They thought they could do no wrong and stopped paying attention to what they were doing and partied it up.
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
mechanical engineering
My experience is that companies that have a hardware component tend to be more stable than pure software companies. I tend to work for pure software companies, which come and go like dust in the wind. Incidentally, the below comment isn't a joke; at most places I worked at, we wouldn't even consider someone who hadn't worked at multiple companies. This isn't out of spite, but because the work tends to resemble contract type work more than long term stable work. I don't know if I could stay at one place 28 years, but I planned on staying at my last two companies more than seven and nine months respectively. The first of the two was an awesome company in all respects. Then the president died and they were bought by the biggest jerk company in the area (which is owned by one of the worse Private Equity firms out there.) Since then, almost everyone who wasn't laid off, has quit in disgust. My last company had the best product in their niche, but management were lying, vindictive, micromanaging, crazy bastards. Among many other things, they made the mistake of hiring based on future, hoped for gross sales, not actual earnings. They also tried to do too many things, leaving them vulnerable to startups concentrating on one sub-niche. The only company I truly regret leaving was three companies ago. The commute was hell, they weren't giving me the raises promised and which I deserved and I was tired of arguing over several issues (ironically, I was totally vindicated months after I left.) Still, I really enjoyed the people I worked with, their product is kick ass and I had the best manager ever. If they matched my current salary, I'd probably go back.
Joe Woodbury wrote:
...management were lying, vindictive, micromanaging, crazy bastards.
Don't sugar coat it! Tell us what you really think of them! ;P I can relate all too well. One manager/supervisor I always refer to as my Former Bitch Supervisor From Helltm. She was something to behold and my coworkers under her and I have HOURS of stories to tell about her. An insecure, incompetent, control freak. She couldn't understand how everyone's mood turned against her in one memorable meeting when she screamed at a group of programmers with an average age of 30 to "GROW UP!" She tried to blame me for it later because the other programmers had nominated me, rather than her, to lead a short term project with an impossible deadline so it would have a chance of success. She opted to cancel it instead. It was a combination of promotion to get her from something she was incompetent at to a position with the power to crack the whip.
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
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In April, I will have been a professional developer for 26 years. I'm now working for my eleventh company as a paid employee (thus not counting all the contracts I've done.) Most the companies I worked for weren't very healthy and were having problems. Out of curiosity, I made a list of all the companies, whether I resigned or was laid off, whether they were profitable when I exited and if they are still around. Not counting my current position (a company that has always been quite profitable and still is), here are the results: Companies: 10 Resigned: 4** Profitable upon exit: 3* Still around: 4.5 (half for Novell which is a shadow of its former self.) * One company has a massive debt, but runs solidly in the black otherwise, so I counted it as profitable. Another has since recovered, but was losing money when I was laid off. I was laid off from a third the day it was bought. It was profitable and is still around, but the new owners have driven into the ground. ** One of the companies which isn't around is one I started and ran in the late 90s. On tax returns it made a profit until the very end, but only because I often didn't pay myself. After the CDROM-based infotainment market collapsed in 1997/98, I used the company for contracting. I made several thousand on my last contract and officially shut the company down at the end of that month. Still, I didn't count it as profitable. And, while I voluntarily exited, any other choice wasn't practical.