What is it with these Gay Rights people
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Well
Quote:
the "promotion" of homosexuality, including giving the impression that gay relationships are normal,
is illegal. So, if you believe that gay relationships are normal, and want to tell kids that "it's OK to be gay" you can't. I guess. I don't think anyone seriously thinks that gay chaps are going around trying to persuade youngsters to be gay.
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
strongly motivated in the gay direction.
What?
MVVM # - I did it My Way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
If a kid is oriented towards being gay then they can surely find information without being propagandised. How can they possibly consider a gay relationship "normal" so promoting it as such is wrong, I agree with the Russians on this one.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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If a kid is oriented towards being gay then they can surely find information without being propagandised. How can they possibly consider a gay relationship "normal" so promoting it as such is wrong, I agree with the Russians on this one.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
So, your teen child is being teased at school because they are gay. Distraught and in tears they turn to you for help. You'd tell them they were abnormal?
MVVM # - I did it My Way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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Most gay rights people will agree that the promotion of gay relationships in the sense of "trying to make people gay" is just wrong. The problem with the laws in Russia is the same that the UK had with Section 28 ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_28[^] Teachers (in particular) were essentially prevented from mentoring or advising young people who were coming to terms with being gay in a still largely homophobic society, half the time they only needed to be able to discuss their feelings with someone they trusted. Instead good teachers lost their jobs. The less well educated of any society will take laws like this and use them as an excuse for violence and discrimination... for evidence of that just look at some of the gang violence that is happening in Russia today, or to the homophobic bullying that exists in schools and workplaces in Britain and the US
CHill60 wrote:
half the time they only needed to be able to discuss their feelings with someone they trusted
Yeah that is what I meant, kids need to be able to access those resources when they need them. Actively promoting homosexuality to the young is just wrong.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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I fail to see the problem, and I'm not referring to the law here, but I have never experienced gay promotions. Openly telling people that you happen to be gay is not promotion in itself. Openly complaining about being discriminated isn't promotion either. While I do prefer to be kept ignorant about peoples bathroom habits, I do see the problems with laws that limits your freedom of speech. It's a basis of all other freedoms. Limit it and you limit other freedoms as well. Should add that a girl I know that lived in the same student home as me lives in Moscow nowadays. She believes that Moscow is about as safe as a city that size can be. There is no need to be scared of going home alone at night. As long as you're white and straight.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello[^]
Jörgen Andersson wrote:
but I have never experienced gay promotions
When I was potentially subject to this, in the 60s, it was a whole different ball game. I don't see limiting free speech as a universal right, hate, racism and a few other are limited and rightly so.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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I fail to see the problem, and I'm not referring to the law here, but I have never experienced gay promotions. Openly telling people that you happen to be gay is not promotion in itself. Openly complaining about being discriminated isn't promotion either. While I do prefer to be kept ignorant about peoples bathroom habits, I do see the problems with laws that limits your freedom of speech. It's a basis of all other freedoms. Limit it and you limit other freedoms as well. Should add that a girl I know that lived in the same student home as me lives in Moscow nowadays. She believes that Moscow is about as safe as a city that size can be. There is no need to be scared of going home alone at night. As long as you're white and straight.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello[^]
Jörgen Andersson wrote:
While I do prefer to be kept ignorant about peoples bathroom habits,
bathroom?
MVVM # - I did it My Way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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CHill60 wrote:
half the time they only needed to be able to discuss their feelings with someone they trusted
Yeah that is what I meant, kids need to be able to access those resources when they need them. Actively promoting homosexuality to the young is just wrong.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
Actively promoting homosexuality to the young is just wrong.
Do you believe homosexuality is a matter of biology, or a matter of choice?
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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So, your teen child is being teased at school because they are gay. Distraught and in tears they turn to you for help. You'd tell them they were abnormal?
MVVM # - I did it My Way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
Not quite so bluntly but yes, you explain that they are different and therefore the herd reacts negatively towards them hence the bullying! I raised 2 of the little horrors you are going to struggle to get me without a reasonable explanation. Any good parent should be able to deal with that sort of situation.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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Mycroft Holmes wrote:
Actively promoting homosexuality to the young is just wrong.
Do you believe homosexuality is a matter of biology, or a matter of choice?
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
Actually I don't have an opinion, nor do I care, the only openly gay friend I have thinks it is a choice.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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Jörgen Andersson wrote:
While I do prefer to be kept ignorant about peoples bathroom habits,
bathroom?
MVVM # - I did it My Way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
I too was going to raise that question and then realized that cleaning out the preferred part of anatomy for gay sex requires the use of the bathroom! :laugh:
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Jörgen Andersson wrote:
While I do prefer to be kept ignorant about peoples bathroom habits,
bathroom?
MVVM # - I did it My Way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
Sorry, I'm a bit americanized and forgot it was the soapbox.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello[^]
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Jörgen Andersson wrote:
but I have never experienced gay promotions
When I was potentially subject to this, in the 60s, it was a whole different ball game. I don't see limiting free speech as a universal right, hate, racism and a few other are limited and rightly so.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
I'm fully aware that the right of free speech is contradictory to blocking hate crimes. You have to put it in context: Is your right to be ignorant about homosexuality more important than their right to not be discriminated?
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello[^]
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[check the forum title] yep this is the Soapbox so: I don't get the whole furore over Russia's gay laws. It seems to me the not being allowed to promote gay relationships to minors is a GOOD thing. If a teenager is so inclined then they will find out about their options as far as sexuality are concerned. If they are incapable of locating resources then they are not strongly motivated in the gay direction. And no I'm not homophobic, I don't give a rats arse what someones sexual preferences are just keep it to themselves. I would also like to include religion in the ban but I know I'd be pissing in the wind on that one.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
I don't think what you think promote means is the same as promote means in the Russian laws. There is also outrage from much of the rest of the world (it is most definitely not 'these Gay Rights people') because the Russians are linking homosexuality and paedophilia. The laws are not to protect children from being turned gay by colourful pamphlets, but to stop all the gays bumming all the children. When you tell the less learned of your population that homosexuals want to fuck their kids then they form vigilante gangs and go round trying to kick the gay out of anyone who they think might be. Which is exactly what is happening in Russia now.
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If a kid is oriented towards being gay then they can surely find information without being propagandised. How can they possibly consider a gay relationship "normal" so promoting it as such is wrong, I agree with the Russians on this one.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
If a kid is oriented towards being gay then they can surely find information without being propagandised.
In Russia it is now illegal to give any information about homosexuality to those under 18. They can find information no doubt, but whoever has provided that information is breaking the law whatever it says.
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
How can they possibly consider a gay relationship "normal" so promoting it as such is wrong,
Are inter-racial relationships "normal"?
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Mycroft Holmes wrote:
If a kid is oriented towards being gay then they can surely find information without being propagandised.
In Russia it is now illegal to give any information about homosexuality to those under 18. They can find information no doubt, but whoever has provided that information is breaking the law whatever it says.
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
How can they possibly consider a gay relationship "normal" so promoting it as such is wrong,
Are inter-racial relationships "normal"?
chriselst wrote:
In Russia it is now illegal to give any information about homosexuality to those under 18
I got the impression it was propagandising to under 18 rather than counselling type info. What the bloody hell does inter-racial got to do with it!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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I don't think what you think promote means is the same as promote means in the Russian laws. There is also outrage from much of the rest of the world (it is most definitely not 'these Gay Rights people') because the Russians are linking homosexuality and paedophilia. The laws are not to protect children from being turned gay by colourful pamphlets, but to stop all the gays bumming all the children. When you tell the less learned of your population that homosexuals want to fuck their kids then they form vigilante gangs and go round trying to kick the gay out of anyone who they think might be. Which is exactly what is happening in Russia now.
You could be right, was not aware of the pedo link they are promoting and the idea of gay bashing is so 1980s.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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chriselst wrote:
In Russia it is now illegal to give any information about homosexuality to those under 18
I got the impression it was propagandising to under 18 rather than counselling type info. What the bloody hell does inter-racial got to do with it!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
You are certain that same sex relationships are not normal, presumably because they are less common although they have existed throughout history and do exist in many other animal species. Because you think they are not normal then they should not be talked about in a positive way. Inter-racial relationships by the same measure are not normal, should they also not be talked about in a positive way.
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You are certain that same sex relationships are not normal, presumably because they are less common although they have existed throughout history and do exist in many other animal species. Because you think they are not normal then they should not be talked about in a positive way. Inter-racial relationships by the same measure are not normal, should they also not be talked about in a positive way.
You are correct I don't consider gay relationships "normal", I do define normal as male/female anything else is an aberration. I don't care if they are common throughout history and you can keep other species, I'm talking about human normal.
chriselst wrote:
Because you think they are not normal then they should not be talked about in a positive way.
I have no idea where you got that from, I am not gay bashing just don't get why they are so militant on the Russian thing (I understand the vigilantism and find it disturbing). Inter-racial has absolutely nothing to do with the subject, I don't care how "common" they are and they certainly can't be measured in the same way, preposterous. If they are male/female they rate as normal IMHO.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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You are correct I don't consider gay relationships "normal", I do define normal as male/female anything else is an aberration. I don't care if they are common throughout history and you can keep other species, I'm talking about human normal.
chriselst wrote:
Because you think they are not normal then they should not be talked about in a positive way.
I have no idea where you got that from, I am not gay bashing just don't get why they are so militant on the Russian thing (I understand the vigilantism and find it disturbing). Inter-racial has absolutely nothing to do with the subject, I don't care how "common" they are and they certainly can't be measured in the same way, preposterous. If they are male/female they rate as normal IMHO.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
But lots of people do consider inter-racial relationships not normal and wrong, even immoral. Are their prejudices wrong and yours are right? At least you recognise that your opposition is simply a prejudice and not born out of any reason. Completely pointless trying to reason against such a thing.
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But lots of people do consider inter-racial relationships not normal and wrong, even immoral. Are their prejudices wrong and yours are right? At least you recognise that your opposition is simply a prejudice and not born out of any reason. Completely pointless trying to reason against such a thing.
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But lots of people do consider inter-racial relationships not normal and wrong, even immoral. Are their prejudices wrong and yours are right? At least you recognise that your opposition is simply a prejudice and not born out of any reason. Completely pointless trying to reason against such a thing.
chriselst wrote:
But lots of people do consider inter-racial relationships not normal and wrong, even immoral.
Yeah and there are lots of fundie idiots too. For me, my prejudices are absolutely right, what you want to think/feel is your issue and I don't give a rats what it is as long as I don't have to deal with it.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
