What is it with these Gay Rights people
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chriselst wrote:
So childless relationships between men and women are wrong and not normal then?
A implies B does not mean B implies A. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other and using an openning argument like that shows a failure in understanding.
chriselst wrote:
I'm not sure that's a fact, I doubt it is true at all.
That's absolutely true. Since my son was born, I've seen how he emulates me mostly and other boys. This is a fact. If you had a son you would see that every single day.
chriselst wrote:
How on earth do you raise someone gay?
Who would you tell your child to date? If you're gay, you'd tell they they can date anyone. If you're straight, you'd tell them to date the opposite sex. You don't have kids, do you?
chriselst wrote:
You can tell your son whatever you want to, and with any luck he'll grow up to make his own mind up about things rather than hang on every word you've ever told him.
That's true. And how you raise them greatly affects how they will grow up. Or is this not a fact either?
chriselst wrote:
Again, how the hell can you teach someone to be straight
Same as above.
chriselst wrote:
Your son will be whoever and whatever he turns out to be. I hope for the sake of both of you that you can cope with what that is, because it is unlikely to be exactly what you have planned for him.
Hopefully, he'll be more influenced by family and friends than by television as well as grow up to make all the right choices.
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Im_no_troll wrote:
True, sure. Fact... only about YOUR situation, not every situation.
Bullshit! EVERY kids I've seen has emulated their same sex parent in one way or the other. I've seen it in my dozen nephews and cousins. Hell, I even see it in myself. Manerisms and all that are picked up by kids.
Im_no_troll wrote:
This may be true among some people (probably prejudice). However, it is not true among all parents. Most parents, including myself, would say the former.
Obviously the case for all is impossible one. But I would say with a high certainty that most parents want their kids to be like them in many ways. And that only enforces my point.
Im_no_troll wrote:
That is a fact, and that is why it's important to be careful.
There's nothing wrong with raising your kid straight and with good values.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
EVERY kids I've seen has emulated their same sex parent in one way or the other. I've seen it in my dozen nephews and cousins. Hell, I even see it in myself. Manerisms and all that are picked up by kids
I am guessing you don't know many gay folks. Apparently you don't realize that all those "mannerisms" you are referring to are in fact exhibited by people who are gay. How do you reconcile the fact that some guy plays football and baseball, maintains his own car, works construction in the summer to pay for college and like to drink with the guys but still prefers to have sex with other men?
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
There's nothing wrong with raising your kid straight and with good values.
Nothing wrong with raising a kid without experiencing serious medical issues either. But some things are not by choice.
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I agree with you that they are comparable. Just think back 100 years ago. I think black/white marriage was as "offensive" in the US as gay marriage..
Nicholas Marty wrote:
Just think back 100 years ago. I think black/white marriage was as "offensive" in the US as gay marriage..
Actually wrong. But only because it wasn't as long ago as you think. The last law wasn't invalidated until 1967 and the prejudice lasted after that.
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Ten years ago, they argued that it was nature, not nurture. Now they're pushing to nurture kids and teach them that they're not born straight. If it's okay for you to be gay and raise your kid gay, it's okay for me to be straight and raise my kid straight. They're conflicting ideologies. You can't teach both.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Now they're pushing to nurture kids and teach them that they're not born straight. If it's okay for you to be gay and raise your kid gay
Nonsense. No one is claiming that.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
You can't teach both.
Nor is anyone trying.
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
One of these days, your daughter is going to grow up and you'll realize how similar she is to her mom and you. That's when you'll realize that she was emulating her parents much more than 3% combined.
Over the course of years sure. But as a 4 year old no. They will emulate more as they become more what? ... .. Similar. It is also possible they are not similar to you and do many things you never did as a child and do very little that you did. My father and I are very different. He played football in highschool and joined the marines when he was 18. I took Advanced Calculus my Junior year and went to College.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Are you kidding? I've spent hours everyday playing with my son when he was a toddler. Less now since he prefers many other things.
So he his no longer emulating you. Oh oh... I bet you are not spending enough time with him. Watch out! You are raising a gay man!
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Google same-sex parent emulation or copy and gender-typing. It's there.
What is there? Data showing kids emulate? So what? That does not mean they are gay or straight!
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
I never said they were or weren't. I said you can affect them.
Affect what? It seems you have been claiming you raise a child straight or gay. Are you not claiming that?
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
I said you can affect them.
Affect their sexual orientation?
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
I'd really like to see statistical data on this.
Yeah me too. I did not make the claim. Seems you did. Have any data to back it up or can I use my data to back up something? My data says you are in fact using an opinion based on your religious faith. Correct me if I am wrong and either you have no religious faith or your religious faith supports LGBT, but statistically we can show that most people believing as you do acquire such opinions from their religious institution.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet. The interesting thing about software is it c
First off, I'm unitarian. Never cared for religion. Second, l said he's emulating me less as he's growing up and being influenced by other sources. That's to be expected. Third, once I see data that shows the percentage of straight kids in straight marriages is almost the same for straight kids in gay marriages, I'll believe there are no external influencs. But considering the sample difference between them, that would imply that most kids raised in gay marriages will be straight. Not some as was stated elsewhere, but most.
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
EVERY kids I've seen has emulated their same sex parent in one way or the other. I've seen it in my dozen nephews and cousins. Hell, I even see it in myself. Manerisms and all that are picked up by kids
I am guessing you don't know many gay folks. Apparently you don't realize that all those "mannerisms" you are referring to are in fact exhibited by people who are gay. How do you reconcile the fact that some guy plays football and baseball, maintains his own car, works construction in the summer to pay for college and like to drink with the guys but still prefers to have sex with other men?
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
There's nothing wrong with raising your kid straight and with good values.
Nothing wrong with raising a kid without experiencing serious medical issues either. But some things are not by choice.
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First off, I'm unitarian. Never cared for religion. Second, l said he's emulating me less as he's growing up and being influenced by other sources. That's to be expected. Third, once I see data that shows the percentage of straight kids in straight marriages is almost the same for straight kids in gay marriages, I'll believe there are no external influencs. But considering the sample difference between them, that would imply that most kids raised in gay marriages will be straight. Not some as was stated elsewhere, but most.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Second, l said he's emulating me less as he's growing up and being influenced by other sources. That's to be expected.
Not sure what your point is. Seems that you are just saying your kid emulates you and then he doesn't has much. How does that have anything to do with their sexual orientation or the fact that you have no control over it?
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Third, once I see data that shows the percentage of straight kids in straight marriages is almost the same for straight kids in gay marriages
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
But considering the sample difference between them, that would imply that most kids raised in gay marriages will be straight.
So why would you conclude the opposite? Seems to be pure opinion then.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet. The interesting thing about software is it can not reproduce, until it can.
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Who would you tell your child to date?
You tell your children who to date?
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
...as well as grow up to make all the right choices.
Which of course is what the KKK counted on.
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[check the forum title] yep this is the Soapbox so: I don't get the whole furore over Russia's gay laws. It seems to me the not being allowed to promote gay relationships to minors is a GOOD thing. If a teenager is so inclined then they will find out about their options as far as sexuality are concerned. If they are incapable of locating resources then they are not strongly motivated in the gay direction. And no I'm not homophobic, I don't give a rats arse what someones sexual preferences are just keep it to themselves. I would also like to include religion in the ban but I know I'd be pissing in the wind on that one.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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:thumbsup:
Clean-up crew needed, grammar spill... - Nagy Vilmos
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"What is it with these Gay Rights people?" Yeah man, fancy 'them' wanting to be able to live like 'us'. They should not hold hands in public like my wife and I do, my kids might ask me about it.
I think the point is that they don't want to live like us. :) And should be allowed to.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello[^]
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You are correct I don't consider gay relationships "normal", I do define normal as male/female anything else is an aberration. I don't care if they are common throughout history and you can keep other species, I'm talking about human normal.
chriselst wrote:
Because you think they are not normal then they should not be talked about in a positive way.
I have no idea where you got that from, I am not gay bashing just don't get why they are so militant on the Russian thing (I understand the vigilantism and find it disturbing). Inter-racial has absolutely nothing to do with the subject, I don't care how "common" they are and they certainly can't be measured in the same way, preposterous. If they are male/female they rate as normal IMHO.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
So over 250 other species practice it, particularly amongst higher mammals, it has been practiced by man since time immemorial and is somethig that just happens in some people, without outside influence of any kind, and you DONT think its normal? Holy crap, what DOES qualify as normal then? :) Surely marriage isnt normal then, art neither. Cooking, thats an abberation, clothes, as abnormal as hell. ALl those atre only practised by man and relatively recently. Deffinitely abnormal for sure.
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Every prejudice that isn't yours would be wrong in your opinion. That is not the point. The fact is, mother/father relationships are normal because that's where children come from - their mom and dad. Race has nothing to do with this. The fact is, boys usually emulate dad and girls emulate mom. Considering how many unwanted kids (kids given up for adoption) we have and all that, the normal family structure has completely eroded. In a perfect world, rape would be eliminated and children born out of wedlock would no longer happen. Then mom and dad can bring up their kids the way they want them to. You wish to be gay? Fine! You wish to raise your child gay? Fine! But don't tell me I can't raise my son to believe that being gay is not wrong since I will be teaching him to be straight and that cannot coexist with being gay.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
I will be teaching him to be straight
Good luck with that if he likes c o c k.
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chriselst wrote:
It is absolutely true because you have observed one example. Nice sampling.
That was one example. Every boy that I've seen growing up emulated their father in one way or other. I have many nephews and cousins who are younger.
chriselst wrote:
Although you then contradict yourself, admitting he is emulating others too.
How is that a contradiction? Kids will eventually learn from other kids. But before they go out and meet kids in school or even daycare, they start learning from and emulating their parents.
chriselst wrote:
Utter bollocks.
If you're a prejudiced throwback who cannot accept the real world then you tell them who to date and try to control their life. It has nothing to do with being gay or being straight.So the real world is letting them choose whatever they want with no input from you? The fact that you guide them does not mean you control them. No opinion in how they live is just as bad as controlling every aspect of it.
chriselst wrote:
I have not decided how she will lead her life, that is up to her. All I can do is give her all the information she needs to make her own informed choices and try to teach her to be kind to others.
I am not expecting you, nor me, to lead their lives for them. However, we are expected to guide them. Telling your daughter she can date whoever she wants at a young age is basically telling her she doesn't have to be straight. Ergo, you can be gay.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Every boy that I've seen growing up emulated their father in one way or other.
So you dont know many gays then.... The few I have met dont look like women and dont emulate them. They are men, who look like men, but who like c o c k. Oh as for teaching, you have as much chance teaching a black to be white as teching a hetro to be gay.
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chriselst wrote:
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Telling your daughter she can date whoever she wants at a young age is basically telling her she doesn't have to be straight. Ergo, you can be gay.
Of course she can be gay. How does that make any difference to me? Will it make her a different person? Will it make me love her less?
Reread what I wrote. The fact that you DON'T tell her to be straight IMPLIES that you're telling her she can be gay. That contradicts your other statements on how you can raise someone straight or gay. You're basically giving her the green light on being gay if she chooses to without even realizing it. Will you love her less if she was ugly, stupid, boring, short, fat, slow, or a kleptomaniac. No. She's your daughter. That doesn't mean we accept everything about our kids blindly. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
being gay if she chooses
Its not like chosing fish or meat for a main course you know. Try chosing to have different coloured eyes. That will give you an idea.
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
That was your statement. Yours needs equal data proof as mine.
More homosexuals have hetro sexual parents.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet. The interesting thing about software is it can not reproduce, until it can.
Its kind of hard for gay parents to have kids.... :)
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So over 250 other species practice it, particularly amongst higher mammals, it has been practiced by man since time immemorial and is somethig that just happens in some people, without outside influence of any kind, and you DONT think its normal? Holy crap, what DOES qualify as normal then? :) Surely marriage isnt normal then, art neither. Cooking, thats an abberation, clothes, as abnormal as hell. ALl those atre only practised by man and relatively recently. Deffinitely abnormal for sure.
Erudite_Eric wrote:
Surely marriage isnt normal then,
Dammed right it is not normal, what right thinking male would voluntarily limit himself to 1 pussy. Ok so that proves I'm nuts.
Erudite_Eric wrote:
Holy crap, what DOES qualify as normal then
I'm beginning to wonder, however I don't consider any of your arguments valid, other species, so what! Just because it is practiced by a minority does not make it "normal", actually I'm beginning to dislike that word altogether. In desperation I will fall back to the evolutionary thing, homosexual relationships are not productive. And if you point out that we are already dramatically over populated I will ignore your argument with decorum :^) .
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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You tell your children who to date?
You don't?! What kind of parent does not set ground rules? Free loving hippies. :mad:
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Stop taking the piss. :)
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Erudite_Eric wrote:
Surely marriage isnt normal then,
Dammed right it is not normal, what right thinking male would voluntarily limit himself to 1 pussy. Ok so that proves I'm nuts.
Erudite_Eric wrote:
Holy crap, what DOES qualify as normal then
I'm beginning to wonder, however I don't consider any of your arguments valid, other species, so what! Just because it is practiced by a minority does not make it "normal", actually I'm beginning to dislike that word altogether. In desperation I will fall back to the evolutionary thing, homosexual relationships are not productive. And if you point out that we are already dramatically over populated I will ignore your argument with decorum :^) .
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
As for the animal thing its extraordinary how many higher mamals do, apes and dolphins for example. Of course for them being 'gay' isnt so extreme, they form male to male relationships that are long lasting and include sex, but also mate with females, so it isnt actually limiting reproduction at all, perhaps for them the homosecual relationship is just the icing on the cake, of the fact they can have sedx all the time, and not just in season, makes it more appealing? DOnt know, dont know what dolphins think. Anyway, as for it being normal, its about as normal and as natural as anything else is, doesnt do any harm, and quite frankly, anything that increases the total amount of love in the world shouldnt be condemned. And gay people tend to be intelligent, thoughtful, and not aggressive, so perhaps in todays overpopulated and fought over world it is a better future model and perhaps an evoloutionary step forwards.
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Does any country on earth accept 'promotion' of gayness?
Do you not watch TV in the US?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
No. I live in France. :)