Depressing
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That might be appropriate if I had the slightest desire to communicate with them. They're in my country - they should learn English or go the f*ck home.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
hat might be appropriate if I had the slightest desire to communicate with them.
Obviously you do not want to communicate with the people you work with.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
They're in my country - they should learn English or go the f*ck home.
In my experience Indian and Pakistanis speak proper English. They were former British colonies after all. Maybe it is you that doesn't have a good command of the English language. :~
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
I'm not an immigrant. My family has been here since the 1600s, and I was born here - I think that qualifies me as a natural-born American. And if you want to take it to such an absurd level, we're all immigrants from Africa (according to the latest favorite scientific genetic theory).
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013I never said anything about immigration. I would consider anyone with a US citizenship an American. All I am saying is that at work, people are either productive or non-productive. There is no other type-casting. I understand that your family is there since 1600, but most of the Hispanics, Blacks and Chinese can say the same, that they are there since last 200 years. USA is a country filled with most no. of immigrants in the world (if you consider last 200 years then 50% of people are immigrants), and this is not new. So after spending more than 40 years there, I don't understand why are you depressed? You already know everything in this damn paragraphs. This will NEVER change. I have spent almost four years in the USA. I have seen immigrants (including Indians) behaving like 'Non-Americans', and sometimes it's annoying. But you can't hate them just because they are not behaving/acting like Americans. Remember they are from a different country. It's always strange to me, whenever I see an American on the internet who can't stand immigrants. Because I have never came across a single person/incident where someone in the USA doesn't like me because I am an Indian. I have done many business travels and family vacations with Americans, I have traveled the country like crazy in those four years and I am still talking to my old colleagues on the Skype. I don't think that I just got lucky or I was that dumb, after spending that much time on those many different places. So back to my original point - Why do you care? It's not 1800 anymore...
Remind Me This - Manage, Collaborate and Execute your Project in the Cloud
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One that doesn't start with "pradeep" (merely an example, but you catch my drift, or at least you should).
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013I catch your drift loud and clear. But it wasn't meant to be a political comment even if it became one. When I wrote "Serious question" I meant that. What is an American name? Is it the origin? Etymology? Or is it American after a certain number of generations? (From a big enough ethnic group) And if so, how many generations? I was leaning towards the first, my name for example is a Danish form of George which is Greek. Yours is Hebrew. But Piebalds answer made me think of other meanings, George Washington Carver was a great man, and therefore it's a great American name.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello[^]
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The general quality of work isn't the real issue though (that's for a whole other thread that will be roundly down-voted simply because CodeProject has been overrun by those very "programmers"). My complaint is actually the severely lopsided ratio of 3rd world programmers. In the last year, they've moved the entire support department to India (40 Americans lost their jobs when that happened). They followed that up by replacing American programmers that quit with off-shore "resources", making no attempt to retain what were roundly considered to be key personnel. Last week, I was ordered to hand-off some rather important dev work to Indian contractors, and the people that rely on that development effort are none too happy about it. I honestly have no feeling as to the suitability of the new contractors to even accomplish the task. To add insult to injury, the principal dev on our flagship product has been performing knowledge transfer sessions to the same two Indian devs regarding all phases of development on that product. Not only are they replacing us with Indians because they'll work for $0.25/hour, but they're making us help them do it. Before anyone suggests it, yes I'm looking for another job, and this is where they twist the knife, so to speak. I'm being contacted mostly (about 95%) by off-shored head hunters. Really? I've started telling them I will not discuss job prospects with off-shore recruiters.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
The general quality of work isn't the real issue
Then what is the real issue? :~
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
In the last year, they've moved the entire support department to India (40 Americans European Immigrants lost their jobs when that happened).
FTFY :-D
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
They followed that up by replacing American European Immigrant programmers that quit with off-shore "resources"
Must have made business sense. :doh:
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
They followed that up by replacing American European Immigrant programmers that quit with off-shore "resources", making no attempt to retain what were roundly considered to be key personnel.
They quit so they were no longer available. :doh:
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Last week, I was ordered to hand-off some rather important dev work to Indian contractors,
Were you forthcoming with the specifications? :~
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I honestly have no feeling as to the suitability of the new contractors
Probably at least as competent as you or maybe more qualified. Do you posses any advanced degrees in computer science?
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
To add insult to injury, the principal dev on our flagship product has been performing knowledge transfer sessions to the same two Indian devs regarding all phases of development on that product.
Doing his/her job of making a smooth transition. What is wrong with that? :confused:
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Not only are they replacing us with Indians because they'll work for $0.25/hour, but they're making us help them do it.
Welcome to the real world. Although I doubt that Indians will work for $0.25/hour, they are smarter than that even if you don't recognize it.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
yes I'm looking for another job, and this is where they twist the knife
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I'm not an immigrant. My family has been here since the 1600s, and I was born here - I think that qualifies me as a natural-born American. And if you want to take it to such an absurd level, we're all immigrants from Africa (according to the latest favorite scientific genetic theory).
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
'm not an immigrant.
Yes you are.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
My family has been here since the 1600s,
Then you immigrated in the 1600's.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I was born here - I think that qualifies me as a natural-born American
A nation of immigrants!
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
we're all immigrants from Africa
That makes you an African American! Watup! :-D
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
One that doesn't start with "pradeep" (merely an example, but you catch my drift, or at least you should).
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
One that doesn't start with "pradeep" "Simmons" (merely an example, but you catch my drift, or at least you should).
FTFY :-D
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
I catch your drift loud and clear. But it wasn't meant to be a political comment even if it became one. When I wrote "Serious question" I meant that. What is an American name? Is it the origin? Etymology? Or is it American after a certain number of generations? (From a big enough ethnic group) And if so, how many generations? I was leaning towards the first, my name for example is a Danish form of George which is Greek. Yours is Hebrew. But Piebalds answer made me think of other meanings, George Washington Carver was a great man, and therefore it's a great American name.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello[^]
Simmons is an African American name. :-D Even John admits we all come from Africa. :cool:
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Walking around the office this morning, I counted name plates - five Americans and 26 Indian/Pakistani.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013So, this is what you do when you should be rather working, and YOU are depressed about it? Why don't you take your little gun and do a round of shooting in your office like you retards always do? Hopefully you'll find no 'foreigners' in the jail.
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
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Walking around the office this morning, I counted name plates - five Americans and 26 Indian/Pakistani.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013When we were made redundant in 2009 to you-know-where we replaced our name plates with the date we were leaving. Before that, the HR folks were often seen walking around. Once they saw the names were replaced with dates we never saw them again. The firm also used to have these stick-your-finger-down-your-throat motivation prints on the wall, like the one showing a rowing eight with the cheesy caption "If we all pull together we can win the race." They took those down; mission accomplished? :-D
If there is one thing more dangerous than getting between a bear and her cubs it's getting between my wife and her chocolate.
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So what's the depressing part? - That you're prepared to work for a small sum of money - That your fellow country-men are less hard-working than others - Or that your performance is scrutinized more than it may have been in the past. As a 4th/5th generation Aussie, I can assure you that in a previous job at a local university, the hardest workers were all in from families that had been here for less time than mine, the majority coming from India or Sri-Lanka. They were the least likely to goof-off if they had 'spare' time when there was a process that could be improved, and the most likely to be what I considered bright. They were incidentally, the most friendly and family-oriented people too. Sure, my sample-size was tiny - there were only 300 of us that I had regular/semi-regular contact with. But I'd work with 'imports' every day of the week if I could, much sooner than 'locals'. Complacency is the enemy of the successful. :)
Unfortunately, I have a feeling that this person does not have the ability to understand what you're trying to say here. :)
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
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Nope. The level of racism is far higher in the UK. I know an Indian girl with a Master's degree from Penn State University who couldn't get a job as a coder in the UK while high school graduates were being hired for coding positions. PS. If she had stayed in the US, she would have found a job. She married and had to move to the UK to be with her husband.
Vivic wrote:
The level of racism is far higher in the UK.
You are joking right? The level of racism in the States is much much higher than the UK which is one of the most race=tolerant Countries in the World. Putting the fact that your friend couldn't get a job down to racism is extremely lazy.
Vivic wrote:
If she had stayed in the US, she would have found a job.
How can you know that, and if it is true doesn't that just mean they have more job openings?
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So what's the depressing part? - That you're prepared to work for a small sum of money - That your fellow country-men are less hard-working than others - Or that your performance is scrutinized more than it may have been in the past. As a 4th/5th generation Aussie, I can assure you that in a previous job at a local university, the hardest workers were all in from families that had been here for less time than mine, the majority coming from India or Sri-Lanka. They were the least likely to goof-off if they had 'spare' time when there was a process that could be improved, and the most likely to be what I considered bright. They were incidentally, the most friendly and family-oriented people too. Sure, my sample-size was tiny - there were only 300 of us that I had regular/semi-regular contact with. But I'd work with 'imports' every day of the week if I could, much sooner than 'locals'. Complacency is the enemy of the successful. :)
enhzflep wrote:
So what's the depressing part?
A level of insecurity can't be expressed by words.
enhzflep wrote:
- That your fellow country-men are less hard-working than others
May be this is the most likely reason. He got out numbered by other hardworking people around the Globe and its depressing not to have colleague from your own country. May be a kind of insecurity where you think other people are snatching jobs from your own countryman.
enhzflep wrote:
That you're prepared to work for a small sum of money
This is another most obvious reason to get depressed. As you might have always feeling that you will be replaced by those people who are ready to work for the same price without looking for handsome pay rise.
You can have all the tools in the world but if you don't genuinely believe in yourself, it's useless.
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So, this is what you do when you should be rather working, and YOU are depressed about it? Why don't you take your little gun and do a round of shooting in your office like you retards always do? Hopefully you'll find no 'foreigners' in the jail.
"Real men drive manual transmission" - Rajesh.
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
So, this is what you do when you should be rather working, and YOU are depressed about it?
I work 10 hours per day MINIMUM. I get to work before the sun comes up, and sometimes don't leave until the sun goes down (10-14-hour days, mostly because there's only two of us supporting more than 2 million lines of code). And then I work at home on the weekends. Please don't assume you know my work habits, or presume to suggest what I should be doing once I get to work. My observations regarding the ratio of American to 3rd-world workers are merely a statement on the sad state of affairs in MY country regarding programmer jobs. American programmers aren't being replaced with off shore people because the American's suck at their jobs - it's because off-shore doesn't cost NEARLY as much. I'm sure if they could find someone that would work for less than you guys, they'd use them instead of you, and then you'd be complaining just as loudly.
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
Why don't you take your little gun and do a round of shooting in your office like you retards always do? Hopefully you'll find no 'foreigners' in the jail.
"You retards always do"? There are over 30 million American gun owners, and of that number, a statistically insignificant fraction of a fraction of them have shot up their work place. I count myself as part of the much larger generally non-insane group.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
Walking around the office this morning, I counted name plates - five Americans and 26 Indian/Pakistani.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
So, this is what you do when you should be rather working, and YOU are depressed about it?
I work 10 hours per day MINIMUM. I get to work before the sun comes up, and sometimes don't leave until the sun goes down (10-14-hour days, mostly because there's only two of us supporting more than 2 million lines of code). And then I work at home on the weekends. Please don't assume you know my work habits, or presume to suggest what I should be doing once I get to work. My observations regarding the ratio of American to 3rd-world workers are merely a statement on the sad state of affairs in MY country regarding programmer jobs. American programmers aren't being replaced with off shore people because the American's suck at their jobs - it's because off-shore doesn't cost NEARLY as much. I'm sure if they could find someone that would work for less than you guys, they'd use them instead of you, and then you'd be complaining just as loudly.
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
Why don't you take your little gun and do a round of shooting in your office like you retards always do? Hopefully you'll find no 'foreigners' in the jail.
"You retards always do"? There are over 30 million American gun owners, and of that number, a statistically insignificant fraction of a fraction of them have shot up their work place. I count myself as part of the much larger generally non-insane group.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I work 10 hours per day MINIMUM. I get to work before the sun comes up, and sometimes don't leave until the sun goes down (10-14-hour days, mostly because there's only two of us supporting more than 2 million lines of code). And then I work at home on the weekends.
MINIMUM 10 hours a day? And you work on the weekends? Unless you're paid for that extra stuff, I think you are being ripped off by your employer, but that's just my opinion.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Please don't assume you know my work habits, or presume to suggest what I should be doing once I get to work.
Fair enough, but I was only suggesting that counting the name plates isn't productive in any way to your employer. Feel free to prove me wrong though.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
My observations regarding the ratio of American to 3rd-world workers are merely a statement on the sad state of affairs in MY country regarding programmer jobs. American programmers aren't being replaced with off shore people because the American's suck at their jobs - it's because off-shore doesn't cost NEARLY as much. I'm sure if they could find someone that would work for less than you guys, they'd use them instead of you, and then you'd be complaining just as loudly.
I have a feeling that you are using the word "American" rather loosely. An American is a person who is a citizen of the USA. And that could either come by way of birth in the USA, or by having been granted by the government of the USA. And I see no difference between the two, except for that one person was born there, and another wasn't (which I think makes them an 'immigrant' for you). However, if immigrants are not Americans, then only the native tribals who were the earliest known settlers are true Americans (you are an immigrant in this case). Sure, your family immigrated earlier than the others who are doing now, but you're still an outsider and you should go back and do your nameplate counting again. Perhaps there are no real "Americans" working in your office, then. You're again loosely using the term 'off-shore'. Off-shoring is when your company establishes themselves in a country other than their own, and employ people there. In that case, those people are still very much employees of your company, and are not any different from you except for tha
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I work 10 hours per day MINIMUM. I get to work before the sun comes up, and sometimes don't leave until the sun goes down (10-14-hour days, mostly because there's only two of us supporting more than 2 million lines of code). And then I work at home on the weekends.
MINIMUM 10 hours a day? And you work on the weekends? Unless you're paid for that extra stuff, I think you are being ripped off by your employer, but that's just my opinion.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Please don't assume you know my work habits, or presume to suggest what I should be doing once I get to work.
Fair enough, but I was only suggesting that counting the name plates isn't productive in any way to your employer. Feel free to prove me wrong though.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
My observations regarding the ratio of American to 3rd-world workers are merely a statement on the sad state of affairs in MY country regarding programmer jobs. American programmers aren't being replaced with off shore people because the American's suck at their jobs - it's because off-shore doesn't cost NEARLY as much. I'm sure if they could find someone that would work for less than you guys, they'd use them instead of you, and then you'd be complaining just as loudly.
I have a feeling that you are using the word "American" rather loosely. An American is a person who is a citizen of the USA. And that could either come by way of birth in the USA, or by having been granted by the government of the USA. And I see no difference between the two, except for that one person was born there, and another wasn't (which I think makes them an 'immigrant' for you). However, if immigrants are not Americans, then only the native tribals who were the earliest known settlers are true Americans (you are an immigrant in this case). Sure, your family immigrated earlier than the others who are doing now, but you're still an outsider and you should go back and do your nameplate counting again. Perhaps there are no real "Americans" working in your office, then. You're again loosely using the term 'off-shore'. Off-shoring is when your company establishes themselves in a country other than their own, and employ people there. In that case, those people are still very much employees of your company, and are not any different from you except for tha
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
MINIMUM 10 hours a day? And you work on the weekends? Unless you're paid for that extra stuff, I think you are being ripped off by your employer, but that's just my opinion.
That's the nature of "exempt" worker status. They pay you an annual salary - period - no matter how many hours you work. There is no overtime, and if you're particularly unlucky, there's no comp time either. We have people here that haven't seen a pay-raise of any kind in over three years. All of this goes hand-in-hand with the lower costs of using offshore programmers.
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
Fair enough, but I was only suggesting that counting the name plates isn't productive in any way to your employer. Feel free to prove me wrong though.
It took less than two minutes, and I did it at 6:50am on my way back from getting my first cup of coffee. Given my typical extended work week, I'm positive that the time wasn't noticed by the bean counters. After all, nobody else was in the office.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
Walking around the office this morning, I counted name plates - five Americans and 26 Indian/Pakistani.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013Well i can understand your depression. Here in india in my team of 10 there are 6 American and good for nothing...they just sit around and bitch about climate,road and other stuff as if we called them here. And in production side i had to always review their work and it's always a mess.Even i feel depress working with American but it's can't help it's company policy
