Windows 8.1
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Do we have functionality from previous versions back yet, i.e. - Classic theme and full customisation options for window colours - Useful status bar information in Explorer (total size when selecting multiple, version information when selecting single) - Bye bye Metro by default - Double clicking various common file formats (PDF, AVI at least) doesn't open full screen Metro apps by default
- Of course not, and I never really thought that many people customized their Windows colors that much. However, I use the Bing Desktop, so I get a new bg image and color theme each day. Keeps things fresh. - Total size when selecting multiple: yes. Version information when selecting single: no. TBH, I can't imagine why I'd want to see version information in file explorer (that's what the properties dialog is for, after all), but to each his own, I suppose. - You know the answer to that. Like it or not, it's not going away anytime soon. - This is easily resolved once you install your pdf reader of choice and set as default (or whatever). With a fresh installation, the only PDF reader installed is the metro version, which is a step up from the no reader installed of versions past. Your first two points are all about lost configuration options, and your last two are about not wanting to configure your installation. Sorry, but can't have it both ways.
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How does hibernation not work? It's better than ever, the newer hybrid hibernation is a dream on a laptop, just suspend and forget, the OS will deal with it. Doesn't matter how much battery I had, when I open my laptop it just get's back where it was, taking a little more time if the battery was empty. Fonts and scaling are a huge issue, but that's thoroughly resolved in the new Metro apps. Of course, if you ignore the new and improved avenue, you'll still be seeing only the old problems. This hatred on Windows 8 borders on the irrational, I use it on my dev machines and even in VMs and have absolutely zero problems with it. Even if you don't like the new stuff, the only new thing you must use (and even then it's optional) is a full screen customizable launcher, which frankly 10 times better than a list of 10 programs on the bulging messy start menu. At least 3rd party start menus are much more functional than Windows 7's.
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I finally took the plunge and upgraded to 8.1. After getting rid of Metro, it's actually not that bad. File manager is a lot better than Windows 7 file manager. Of coarse, there's tonnes of things that don't work properly (hibernation, large fonts, etc.), but that's just the par of the coarse when you have a Microsoft OS.
What third party application are you using to get the Start menu back?
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I finally took the plunge and upgraded to 8.1. After getting rid of Metro, it's actually not that bad. File manager is a lot better than Windows 7 file manager. Of coarse, there's tonnes of things that don't work properly (hibernation, large fonts, etc.), but that's just the par of the coarse when you have a Microsoft OS.
Haven't tried large fonts, hibernation works great for me on three of four devices (fourth is a desktop where I've turned it off). Explorer is improved (and I had never noticed the copy/paste buttons missing in 7 - I always use right-click menu), as is task manager and a whole bunch of other things. It's also much faster to start than 7 used to be, and seems to leave me more RAM free at boot to desktop. I actually quite like Metro too (even on my laptop and desktop), but it is lacking *quality* apps. The store is full of rubbish so there isn't much point in being in metro (or even visiting the store). I actually really like metro IE, faster than chrome for me in most cases and gives me more space/focus on the actual content I care about. The annoying thing is occasionally it behaves differently to the desktop one and I'm forced to leave it. The twitter app is pretty good but has a few niggles, and the Facebook app is ok if you care about that. The email client is fine for my personal mail, but I wouldn't use it for work. After that, everything else starts to fall down - either I don't have a use for it, or the apps are poorly written/designed/don't fit my use case. On the other hand, I don't have an iPad or Android tablet either, and I'm a dev, so maybe I just don't fit the target demographic for tablet/touch apps.
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Start8, StartIsBack and Classic Shell come to mind. Start8 and StartIsBack are pay for, but they're pretty inexpensive. Classic Shell is a freebie with lots of options. I dislike the flat look (and lack of configuration) of the Win 8/8.1 desktop UI but the improvements to the underlying OS are welcome.
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You are uneducated. I am using Two 1080p monitors and multi-core CPU. Until windows 8 metro I have never seen a app use 64 bits correctly, let alone a single app correctly handle 200 GB. The only reason not to like metro is the fact nothing is programmed for it yet. Your opinion is not based on technology, but mere thin air.
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You are uneducated.
[edit]: He has a Masters degree from Cambridge.
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Until windows 8 metro I have never seen a app use 64 bits correctly
You are very opinionated for someone with such limited experience (which could be seen as poor education for yourself).
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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you need two hands to activate the shortcut, so you have to take your hand off the mouse and that slows you down. Really there's no reason no to have a toolbar button. It's not like there's no room
ed welch wrote:
you need two hands to activate the shortcut, so you have to take your hand off the mouse and that slows you down.
Why do you have to take the hand from the mouse or use two hands for the shortcut? Unless you are a South Paw, you are commonly using the mouse with the right hand and the Ctrl-C/V can easily be reached with the left hand only... Beside that, the menues within the file manager of Windows 8.1 aren't that bad, but then they kept stupid Windows 7 habits like full-sizing resized windows on its own as soon as you hit the screen boarder... :( :( :( Ralf
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Shameel wrote:
ed welch wrote:
After getting rid of Metro
How did you do that?
Installed ClassicShell? :cool:
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You are uneducated.
[edit]: He has a Masters degree from Cambridge.
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Until windows 8 metro I have never seen a app use 64 bits correctly
You are very opinionated for someone with such limited experience (which could be seen as poor education for yourself).
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
9 years of post secondary. Tell me about an app that can utilize 200 GB please? Every server environment I have ever worked on has to use virtual machines to utilize that amount of memory or more. Having a masters degree means you can gets grades and follow society - that does not mean he is current on technology. He is indeed uneducated.
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You use buttons "all" the time when Ctrl + C/V is all you need?
.-. |o,o| ,| \_\\=/\_ .-""-. ||/\_/\_\\\_\\ /\[\] \_ \_\\ |\_/|(\_)|\\\\ \_|\_o\_LII|\_ \\.\_./// / | ==== | \\ |\\\_/|"\` |\_| ==== |\_| |\_|\_| ||" || || |-|-| ||LI o || |\_|\_| ||'----'|| /\_/ \\\_\\ /\_\_| |\_\_\\They don't work in all cases. It depends on what you are viewing. I have run into situations where Copy/Paste work when invoked via Edit on the Menu bar, right clicking and select from the Context list and Ctl C/V with standard vanilla text situations or only one or two of the three work or none work. There have been instances of wanting to copy a few lines (such as a tip) from a web page where none of them worked and I end up going to the "source" and copying from there.
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You are uneducated. I am using Two 1080p monitors and multi-core CPU. Until windows 8 metro I have never seen a app use 64 bits correctly, let alone a single app correctly handle 200 GB. The only reason not to like metro is the fact nothing is programmed for it yet. Your opinion is not based on technology, but mere thin air.
What does a single app using 200GB have to do with a terrible end-user UI? 64 bit has been available and (afaik) worked properly since Windows XP, not to mention non-Windows OSs. 64 bit is excellent technology, although beyond the needs of most applications, but it is totally different to Metro. In your next post you talk about servers; you shouldn't even be interacting with a server through a graphical UI in most cases so it's completely nonsensical to talk about Metro wrt servers. Metro isn't even technology, it's a design choice, and a terrible one at that.
Colborne_Greg wrote:
The only reason not to like metro is the fact nothing is programmed for it yet.
No, the reason not to like it (as I've pointed out to you in this thread and others in the past) is that we moved forward from running one application at a time 25 years ago and it's just insane to force people back into a one-at-a-time model, particularly when computers are now powerful enough to easily run a lot of applications in parallel. Why do you think tabbed browsers are so popular?
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I just use ctrl-ins/shift-ins with my right hand (I drive my mouse with my left hand to avoid carpal tunnel issues). Thankfully, they haven't take away all the keyboard shortcuts... yet.
We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.
I'd forgotten about those.
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What does a single app using 200GB have to do with a terrible end-user UI? 64 bit has been available and (afaik) worked properly since Windows XP, not to mention non-Windows OSs. 64 bit is excellent technology, although beyond the needs of most applications, but it is totally different to Metro. In your next post you talk about servers; you shouldn't even be interacting with a server through a graphical UI in most cases so it's completely nonsensical to talk about Metro wrt servers. Metro isn't even technology, it's a design choice, and a terrible one at that.
Colborne_Greg wrote:
The only reason not to like metro is the fact nothing is programmed for it yet.
No, the reason not to like it (as I've pointed out to you in this thread and others in the past) is that we moved forward from running one application at a time 25 years ago and it's just insane to force people back into a one-at-a-time model, particularly when computers are now powerful enough to easily run a lot of applications in parallel. Why do you think tabbed browsers are so popular?
Do you understand what metro is? Metro is not one application at a time model. I suggest you take training on windows 8 to educate yourself on every aspect. The only downfall to metro is the lack of programming for metro. The way metro interacts with the user is limited by the applications you use not windows itself. By the way so you understand what metro is: It is Windows RT aka Windows Runtime aka the .net framework turned into an operating system. Metro is a marvel of absolute programming perfection. The desktop in windows 8 is a metro app.
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Do you understand what metro is? Metro is not one application at a time model. I suggest you take training on windows 8 to educate yourself on every aspect. The only downfall to metro is the lack of programming for metro. The way metro interacts with the user is limited by the applications you use not windows itself. By the way so you understand what metro is: It is Windows RT aka Windows Runtime aka the .net framework turned into an operating system. Metro is a marvel of absolute programming perfection. The desktop in windows 8 is a metro app.
Everyone uses 'Metro' to mean the non-desktop crappy interface in W8. Microsoft initially called it that (see 'Metro styling' all over the web) and it's stuck even though they changed their mind on that. If you don't realise that and think we're talking about the back-end improvements to the OS then your confusion and posts start to make a bit of sense.
Colborne_Greg wrote:
I suggest you take training on windows 8 to educate yourself on every aspect.
Well, no, actually I think I'll just keep using software (and that includes OSs) that makes itself easy to use. In my case that means Classic Shell to hide most of the W8 insanity.
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Everyone uses 'Metro' to mean the non-desktop crappy interface in W8. Microsoft initially called it that (see 'Metro styling' all over the web) and it's stuck even though they changed their mind on that. If you don't realise that and think we're talking about the back-end improvements to the OS then your confusion and posts start to make a bit of sense.
Colborne_Greg wrote:
I suggest you take training on windows 8 to educate yourself on every aspect.
Well, no, actually I think I'll just keep using software (and that includes OSs) that makes itself easy to use. In my case that means Classic Shell to hide most of the W8 insanity.
The user interface of the metro mode is what I am talking about. Metro is mainly about screen partitioning. see that black line - it treats each section of the screen like its own screen (not window, not application) so when an application such as a desktop or a not well thought out metro app - it is put into full screen and given absolute focus; allowing you to control multiple programs at the same time, something the windows desktop can not do. Again educate yourself
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The user interface of the metro mode is what I am talking about. Metro is mainly about screen partitioning. see that black line - it treats each section of the screen like its own screen (not window, not application) so when an application such as a desktop or a not well thought out metro app - it is put into full screen and given absolute focus; allowing you to control multiple programs at the same time, something the windows desktop can not do. Again educate yourself
Screen partitioning, even if it is allowed by the Metro UI (I've never seen it do anything other than run apps full screen), is still vastly inferior to window overlapping as in classic windowed UIs (not just Windows but Mac OS, Unix/Linux window managers and right back to Acorn). I've currently got 10 windows visible on my screens, but 8 of them are just corners sticking out for when I need them.
allowing you to control multiple programs at the same time, something the windows desktop can not do
:confused: It is easy to control multiple programs at once in a windowed UI, that's the whole point!
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The user interface of the metro mode is what I am talking about. Metro is mainly about screen partitioning. see that black line - it treats each section of the screen like its own screen (not window, not application) so when an application such as a desktop or a not well thought out metro app - it is put into full screen and given absolute focus; allowing you to control multiple programs at the same time, something the windows desktop can not do. Again educate yourself
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control multiple programs at the same time, something the windows desktop can not do
You are obviously uneducated! Perhaps you should go on a "desktop" training course where you will learn that the desktop UI is capable of supporting multiple programs at the same time - in fact it does this all the time.
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Metro is a marvel of absolute programming perfection.
What on earth have you been drinking? Or are you a religious fanatic? That is the only time I see someone as vehement about an obviously flawed design philosophy as this statement of yours clearly shows! I am worried about you now. I am glad you don't know where I live.
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It is Windows RT
No, it isn't. At least not all of it.
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The desktop in windows 8 is a metro app
It doesn't seem to run well in a tile. It appears to take over the entire desktop! It appears to be runnable without Metro being there at all so how is it a Metro app? I have more points but I am getting tired of typing - and trying to have a reasoned discussion with a religious fanatic. I should have known better.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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control multiple programs at the same time, something the windows desktop can not do
You are obviously uneducated! Perhaps you should go on a "desktop" training course where you will learn that the desktop UI is capable of supporting multiple programs at the same time - in fact it does this all the time.
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Metro is a marvel of absolute programming perfection.
What on earth have you been drinking? Or are you a religious fanatic? That is the only time I see someone as vehement about an obviously flawed design philosophy as this statement of yours clearly shows! I am worried about you now. I am glad you don't know where I live.
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It is Windows RT
No, it isn't. At least not all of it.
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The desktop in windows 8 is a metro app
It doesn't seem to run well in a tile. It appears to take over the entire desktop! It appears to be runnable without Metro being there at all so how is it a Metro app? I have more points but I am getting tired of typing - and trying to have a reasoned discussion with a religious fanatic. I should have known better.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
The desktop can not have focus to two applications at the same time key word there is focus This means I can type using the keyboard into one app Use my mouse in another app while playing a game in the third with my gamepad the desktop is a piece of shit - grow new skills
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Screen partitioning, even if it is allowed by the Metro UI (I've never seen it do anything other than run apps full screen), is still vastly inferior to window overlapping as in classic windowed UIs (not just Windows but Mac OS, Unix/Linux window managers and right back to Acorn). I've currently got 10 windows visible on my screens, but 8 of them are just corners sticking out for when I need them.
allowing you to control multiple programs at the same time, something the windows desktop can not do
:confused: It is easy to control multiple programs at once in a windowed UI, that's the whole point!
Two windows can not have focus at the same time
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The desktop can not have focus to two applications at the same time key word there is focus This means I can type using the keyboard into one app Use my mouse in another app while playing a game in the third with my gamepad the desktop is a piece of shit - grow new skills
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grow new skills
I think growing an extra arm would be more appropriate based on your claiming to operate on three windows at once! Having multiple input focii is just plain silly!
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.