Misuse of the Quick Answers Forum
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Recently I have been visiting quick answers - view unanswered questions. Today, a member posted the question How to get count of occurrence of characters in string using c#? That was it! No attempted solution. No report of Google searching. No nothing! OK. So now I agree with OriginalGriff regarding misuse of the discussions forums. So I think that we, as a community, need a way to tell the OP that his question is rejected for lack of trying. We also need a mechanism to tell the OP that we think that the answer to his question could be used for nefarious purposes that we, as a community, do not support. Under the Report flag, all we have is Unclear or incomplete. Repost. Not a question. Off-topic. Spam/abusive. The question cited above is none of these. A Google search of "c# occurrences of a character in a string" returned more than 90K answers. So apparently the OP didn't try Googling. The OP may not have been aware of the wealth of online resources. So how do we educate our junior members? I would suggest adding two items to the list Rejected by the Forum. You must at least try to get a solution before you post here. Rejected by the Forum. The answer could be used for bad things. Both of these should remove the question from the forum and send an email to the OP explaining why the action was taken. The OP should be able to click a link in the email and defend his question.
Gus Gustafson
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Recently I have been visiting quick answers - view unanswered questions. Today, a member posted the question How to get count of occurrence of characters in string using c#? That was it! No attempted solution. No report of Google searching. No nothing! OK. So now I agree with OriginalGriff regarding misuse of the discussions forums. So I think that we, as a community, need a way to tell the OP that his question is rejected for lack of trying. We also need a mechanism to tell the OP that we think that the answer to his question could be used for nefarious purposes that we, as a community, do not support. Under the Report flag, all we have is Unclear or incomplete. Repost. Not a question. Off-topic. Spam/abusive. The question cited above is none of these. A Google search of "c# occurrences of a character in a string" returned more than 90K answers. So apparently the OP didn't try Googling. The OP may not have been aware of the wealth of online resources. So how do we educate our junior members? I would suggest adding two items to the list Rejected by the Forum. You must at least try to get a solution before you post here. Rejected by the Forum. The answer could be used for bad things. Both of these should remove the question from the forum and send an email to the OP explaining why the action was taken. The OP should be able to click a link in the email and defend his question.
Gus Gustafson
Given that Mr. Maunder's goal for this site is the maximum amount of visitors possible, I don't think he will agree to any policy that makes people feel unwelcome, no matter how dumb their questions are.
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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Or just make the [Post] button disabled if length is short and there is no code tags in the post?
No, I don't think that's good - there is a minimum length limit on answers which frustrates me from time to time, and I have to add "this added to make the answer long enough to post"... Trouble is, something like that is difficult for real beginners, who do need our help - not the solution to their homework, but actual help to start working out where to start! I remember when I got started, I didn't have a damn clue where to begun writing a program, and that can "freeze your mind" and you can't produce code. If the site you turn to for help won't let you even ask the question and you don't understand why not... It's bad enough that some people will just be rude because you didn't ask using exactly the right words... :sigh:
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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No, I don't think that's good - there is a minimum length limit on answers which frustrates me from time to time, and I have to add "this added to make the answer long enough to post"... Trouble is, something like that is difficult for real beginners, who do need our help - not the solution to their homework, but actual help to start working out where to start! I remember when I got started, I didn't have a damn clue where to begun writing a program, and that can "freeze your mind" and you can't produce code. If the site you turn to for help won't let you even ask the question and you don't understand why not... It's bad enough that some people will just be rude because you didn't ask using exactly the right words... :sigh:
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
A fair point - maybe a link to a "How to ask a good question" post
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A fair point - maybe a link to a "How to ask a good question" post
:laugh: There is already a list on the right hand side of the screen when you post your question, and they don't read that!
A few simple rules when posting your question.
Be courteous. Everyone here helps because they enjoy helping, not because it's their job.
Have you searched or Googled for a solution?
Be specific! eg "How do I change the dialog colour?" instead of "My code doesn't work. Help?"
Tag your question appropriately.
If you have a school or university assignment, assume that your teacher or lecturer is also reading these forums.
Do not remove or empty a message if others have replied.
Your question may be edited or retagged by others. Anything inappropriate will be removed.Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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Recently I have been visiting quick answers - view unanswered questions. Today, a member posted the question How to get count of occurrence of characters in string using c#? That was it! No attempted solution. No report of Google searching. No nothing! OK. So now I agree with OriginalGriff regarding misuse of the discussions forums. So I think that we, as a community, need a way to tell the OP that his question is rejected for lack of trying. We also need a mechanism to tell the OP that we think that the answer to his question could be used for nefarious purposes that we, as a community, do not support. Under the Report flag, all we have is Unclear or incomplete. Repost. Not a question. Off-topic. Spam/abusive. The question cited above is none of these. A Google search of "c# occurrences of a character in a string" returned more than 90K answers. So apparently the OP didn't try Googling. The OP may not have been aware of the wealth of online resources. So how do we educate our junior members? I would suggest adding two items to the list Rejected by the Forum. You must at least try to get a solution before you post here. Rejected by the Forum. The answer could be used for bad things. Both of these should remove the question from the forum and send an email to the OP explaining why the action was taken. The OP should be able to click a link in the email and defend his question.
Gus Gustafson
No one should suffer any backlash as the result of the action of one single user. I'm just a little bit scared of your idea, and here's why: Search the internet for these two terms: "LinkedIn, SWAM" I speak from personal experience in this matter; and I don't consider myself to be a troll, spammer, or other negative influence in any online site in which I participate. (For more details, just ask.) Now yes, you are correct, it may be time to consider expansion of negative reporting. Here is my (considered, based on experience) opinion: The negative report should factor in... -- The number of people who view it as bad -- The ranking of those people -- The good-to-bad ratio of opinions about that specific post -- The amount of time the new user has been here -- The amount of time the complainers have been here -- The number of times the new user has screwed up -- The complaint-to-praise ratio of the user in question -- The complains-to-praises ratio of the persons who are complaining What I'm getting at is this: your immediate complaint is totally valid. After reading your suggestion, I can quickly see this degenerating into the SWAM disaster which LinkedIn thought would fix their spam problem, but which has in turn become the plague of LinkedIn groups. Believe me, LinkedIn's SWAM policy doesn't invite abuse by people of low integrity, it absolutely guarantees it What you are suggesting has many parallels to the disaster that LinkedIn has brought upon thousands of victims needlessly with their SWAM procedure. Here's what your plan (and theirs) fails to factor into the system: malicious actions by unethical persons. It is so easy for an unethical person to attack someone with a system like this that it inevitably happens. I can give you links to demonstrate this if needed. Perhaps something like StackExchange does in their groups would be a good idea. One screw up doesn't kill you, but it does cost you, and you get to know exactly why it occurred, when, where, the people who were involved in the censure, and it costs you in your reputation. I have had this personally happen to me, and I'm still surviving there, contributing positively to others' problems, and getting a good deal for myself in return. Whatever, whatever, please do NOT entertain the idea of letting a person be victimized by one (or a small number of) person(s) who just [doesn't] [don't] like the guy.
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:laugh: There is already a list on the right hand side of the screen when you post your question, and they don't read that!
A few simple rules when posting your question.
Be courteous. Everyone here helps because they enjoy helping, not because it's their job.
Have you searched or Googled for a solution?
Be specific! eg "How do I change the dialog colour?" instead of "My code doesn't work. Help?"
Tag your question appropriately.
If you have a school or university assignment, assume that your teacher or lecturer is also reading these forums.
Do not remove or empty a message if others have replied.
Your question may be edited or retagged by others. Anything inappropriate will be removed.Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
Yes, but the clueless newbee is OVERWHELMED by the sheer volume of data on a site like this; data so extensive that the most realistic survival technique is to "fog it out" mentally while focusing on the immediate problem in the newbee's head.
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Given that Mr. Maunder's goal for this site is the maximum amount of visitors possible, I don't think he will agree to any policy that makes people feel unwelcome, no matter how dumb their questions are.
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
I agree with Richard Andrew x64 I'm smirking: How many of us (including myself) would be here today with an anti-stupid-question policy ?
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I agree with Richard Andrew x64 I'm smirking: How many of us (including myself) would be here today with an anti-stupid-question policy ?
I think that's an excellent way to phrase it - an anti-stupid question policy.
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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Given that Mr. Maunder's goal for this site is the maximum amount of visitors possible, I don't think he will agree to any policy that makes people feel unwelcome, no matter how dumb their questions are.
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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Recently I have been visiting quick answers - view unanswered questions. Today, a member posted the question How to get count of occurrence of characters in string using c#? That was it! No attempted solution. No report of Google searching. No nothing! OK. So now I agree with OriginalGriff regarding misuse of the discussions forums. So I think that we, as a community, need a way to tell the OP that his question is rejected for lack of trying. We also need a mechanism to tell the OP that we think that the answer to his question could be used for nefarious purposes that we, as a community, do not support. Under the Report flag, all we have is Unclear or incomplete. Repost. Not a question. Off-topic. Spam/abusive. The question cited above is none of these. A Google search of "c# occurrences of a character in a string" returned more than 90K answers. So apparently the OP didn't try Googling. The OP may not have been aware of the wealth of online resources. So how do we educate our junior members? I would suggest adding two items to the list Rejected by the Forum. You must at least try to get a solution before you post here. Rejected by the Forum. The answer could be used for bad things. Both of these should remove the question from the forum and send an email to the OP explaining why the action was taken. The OP should be able to click a link in the email and defend his question.
Gus Gustafson
You could be the "better man" and help the poor bastard level up his/her question to better standards; Or if you really feel offended, just let it slide into oblivion.
I'd rather be phishing!
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Given that Mr. Maunder's goal for this site is the maximum amount of visitors possible, I don't think he will agree to any policy that makes people feel unwelcome, no matter how dumb their questions are.
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
I want our community to be able to help as many people as possible, but encouraging laziness helps no one.
cheers Chris Maunder
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Recently I have been visiting quick answers - view unanswered questions. Today, a member posted the question How to get count of occurrence of characters in string using c#? That was it! No attempted solution. No report of Google searching. No nothing! OK. So now I agree with OriginalGriff regarding misuse of the discussions forums. So I think that we, as a community, need a way to tell the OP that his question is rejected for lack of trying. We also need a mechanism to tell the OP that we think that the answer to his question could be used for nefarious purposes that we, as a community, do not support. Under the Report flag, all we have is Unclear or incomplete. Repost. Not a question. Off-topic. Spam/abusive. The question cited above is none of these. A Google search of "c# occurrences of a character in a string" returned more than 90K answers. So apparently the OP didn't try Googling. The OP may not have been aware of the wealth of online resources. So how do we educate our junior members? I would suggest adding two items to the list Rejected by the Forum. You must at least try to get a solution before you post here. Rejected by the Forum. The answer could be used for bad things. Both of these should remove the question from the forum and send an email to the OP explaining why the action was taken. The OP should be able to click a link in the email and defend his question.
Gus Gustafson
"How to get count of occurrence of characters in string using c#?" You actually have lots of options here. 1. Mark it as unclear or incomplete if you feel that it's too ambiguous 2. Downvote it and move on. 3. Answer it. 4. Post a comment asking the user to expand on what their problem actually is given that a simple Google search brings up a million answers. Maybe they have a specific issue. For me there are no stupid questions. There are lazy people, or people who can't ask questions properly due to language or personality, and people who don't know enough to know how to ask the question. Option 4 - getting the poster to update their question to explain why he's asking such an obvious question, and asking for a rundown of what's beem tried - is by far the best. The trick is: how do we do this, and how long do we give a question before it gets categorised into the Lazy Question bucket.
cheers Chris Maunder
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Recently I have been visiting quick answers - view unanswered questions. Today, a member posted the question How to get count of occurrence of characters in string using c#? That was it! No attempted solution. No report of Google searching. No nothing! OK. So now I agree with OriginalGriff regarding misuse of the discussions forums. So I think that we, as a community, need a way to tell the OP that his question is rejected for lack of trying. We also need a mechanism to tell the OP that we think that the answer to his question could be used for nefarious purposes that we, as a community, do not support. Under the Report flag, all we have is Unclear or incomplete. Repost. Not a question. Off-topic. Spam/abusive. The question cited above is none of these. A Google search of "c# occurrences of a character in a string" returned more than 90K answers. So apparently the OP didn't try Googling. The OP may not have been aware of the wealth of online resources. So how do we educate our junior members? I would suggest adding two items to the list Rejected by the Forum. You must at least try to get a solution before you post here. Rejected by the Forum. The answer could be used for bad things. Both of these should remove the question from the forum and send an email to the OP explaining why the action was taken. The OP should be able to click a link in the email and defend his question.
Gus Gustafson
I think if you have not been active on that forum for a while what you witness may come as a shock. I think the credibility of the forum has become diluted by a deluge of really hopeless questions AND answers. Here I make every allowance for those that have English as a second language. It is very often quite obvious a question has substance even though the English is very bad. For those that choose to act as experts there are comments and answers. Many seem to have no concept of the difference and the experienced lead the novices. There are also answers submitted for questions that are totally incomplete and waiting for elaboration from the questioner. Then there are answers delivered as homilies with no technical content which are voted up and oddly sometimes accepted. These contribute nothing to the quality of the Q&A but are just part and parcel of what it has become driven very much by the bizarre and quite ruthless chasing of points. [Edit] I don't want to sound completely negative. I find the Q&A very absorbing at times - there are some very good discussions initiated. The quality of many questions and answers is excellent. Answering questions is quite a challenging exercise and is what I think keeps many interested. I wonder if a template such as for article submission with sections for question, what have I tried, which words did I google, and code for example would improve the focus of questioners.
Peter Wasser "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
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Recently I have been visiting quick answers - view unanswered questions. Today, a member posted the question How to get count of occurrence of characters in string using c#? That was it! No attempted solution. No report of Google searching. No nothing! OK. So now I agree with OriginalGriff regarding misuse of the discussions forums. So I think that we, as a community, need a way to tell the OP that his question is rejected for lack of trying. We also need a mechanism to tell the OP that we think that the answer to his question could be used for nefarious purposes that we, as a community, do not support. Under the Report flag, all we have is Unclear or incomplete. Repost. Not a question. Off-topic. Spam/abusive. The question cited above is none of these. A Google search of "c# occurrences of a character in a string" returned more than 90K answers. So apparently the OP didn't try Googling. The OP may not have been aware of the wealth of online resources. So how do we educate our junior members? I would suggest adding two items to the list Rejected by the Forum. You must at least try to get a solution before you post here. Rejected by the Forum. The answer could be used for bad things. Both of these should remove the question from the forum and send an email to the OP explaining why the action was taken. The OP should be able to click a link in the email and defend his question.
Gus Gustafson
Hi Gus, Well, I agree with you that there is a major structural problem on QA here, but my diagnosis is a bit more hopeful. I've already posted my thoughts on QA, and suggestions for change, in depth, both on the "Suggs and Buggs" forum, and the Lounge, several times. "could be used for nefarious purposes" I cannot understand what you mean by this in the context of your post. There are many reasons a poster ... particularly someone new to programming, or new to CodeProject, and/or someone whose native language is not English ... may present questions that appear confused, or poorly worded. These include cultural factors, personality factors (shyness, fear of making mistakes), as well as the "darker sides" of character, like homework-shirking, laziness, etc. And, some people genuinely don't have a clue, or are overwhelmed by their plunge into programming. I repeat what I consider the simplest, and best, suggestion I have made: when a person posts a question, do not accept the question for publication on CP unless the OP has checked off some (minimum number of) appropriate tags. Meanwhile, I hope that all of us here can exhibit the "angelic in our nature" and welcome newcomers, and people from other cultures whose native language is not English, with warmth, and patience, asking helpful clarifying questions in comments. If the newcomer soon proves to be a homework-shirk, a gimme-leech, an urgentz-feed-my-face-now, exhibits an arrogant sense of entitlement manifested as never responding to direct clarifying questions, etc.: well, let the down-votes begin. The structural problem with respondents/responses to QA questions is, imho, even more serious, and I've had my say about that, already.
“I speak in a poem of the ancient food of heroes: humiliation, unhappiness, discord. Those things are given to us to transform, so that we may make from the miserable circumstances of our lives things that are eternal, or aspire to be so.” Jorge Luis Borges
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You could be the "better man" and help the poor bastard level up his/her question to better standards; Or if you really feel offended, just let it slide into oblivion.
I'd rather be phishing!
I do that. See my response to the OP's question.
Gus Gustafson
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I think if you have not been active on that forum for a while what you witness may come as a shock. I think the credibility of the forum has become diluted by a deluge of really hopeless questions AND answers. Here I make every allowance for those that have English as a second language. It is very often quite obvious a question has substance even though the English is very bad. For those that choose to act as experts there are comments and answers. Many seem to have no concept of the difference and the experienced lead the novices. There are also answers submitted for questions that are totally incomplete and waiting for elaboration from the questioner. Then there are answers delivered as homilies with no technical content which are voted up and oddly sometimes accepted. These contribute nothing to the quality of the Q&A but are just part and parcel of what it has become driven very much by the bizarre and quite ruthless chasing of points. [Edit] I don't want to sound completely negative. I find the Q&A very absorbing at times - there are some very good discussions initiated. The quality of many questions and answers is excellent. Answering questions is quite a challenging exercise and is what I think keeps many interested. I wonder if a template such as for article submission with sections for question, what have I tried, which words did I google, and code for example would improve the focus of questioners.
Peter Wasser "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
Hi Peter, I agree (sadly) with your diagnosis, but I do not think the patient's condition is "terminal," and all we can do is provide hospice-care ... I believe strongly that we (CP members), and CP staff, can change this for the better. In the meantime, if you and I choose to "hang in there" with QA, no matter how wild the ride, well ... we can continue, as I observe you, and others, doing ... as I hope I am doing ... to give thoughtful clarifying questions to help posters make their questions clearer, and give on-topic, helpful, solutions with tested code, and focused links to resources. And, we can reward, with our votes, and comments, behavior by others that exhibits what we evaluate as "quality," and "virtue." To the extent our behavior models what we'd like to see QA become, I believe we are a force for positive change: oh yes, that statement is a valid indictment of my character as hopelessly romantic :) sincerely, Bill
“I speak in a poem of the ancient food of heroes: humiliation, unhappiness, discord. Those things are given to us to transform, so that we may make from the miserable circumstances of our lives things that are eternal, or aspire to be so.” Jorge Luis Borges
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"How to get count of occurrence of characters in string using c#?" You actually have lots of options here. 1. Mark it as unclear or incomplete if you feel that it's too ambiguous 2. Downvote it and move on. 3. Answer it. 4. Post a comment asking the user to expand on what their problem actually is given that a simple Google search brings up a million answers. Maybe they have a specific issue. For me there are no stupid questions. There are lazy people, or people who can't ask questions properly due to language or personality, and people who don't know enough to know how to ask the question. Option 4 - getting the poster to update their question to explain why he's asking such an obvious question, and asking for a rundown of what's beem tried - is by far the best. The trick is: how do we do this, and how long do we give a question before it gets categorised into the Lazy Question bucket.
cheers Chris Maunder
I think that my main concern here is not the number of visitors but rather the number of professionals who are willing to put up with this type of question. I think that Gemmell hits the nail on the head with his post [Gus Gustafson](http://mattgemmell.com/what-have-you-tried/>What have you tried</a>:
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There’s a huge knock-on negative effect of the proliferation of this unwillingness to make the effort to solve problems yourself. People who are in a position to help stop frequenting the chatrooms, forums and mailing lists. “Bad signal to noise ratio”, they say, with some justification. The losers are the genuine (by which I mean well-meaning, willing-to-learn people who just happen to be new to a particular area) developers who naturally choose those places to ask their legitimate questions. These people have a reduced chance to get meaningful guidance because of the effort involved in working out who’s a lazy time-waster and who isn’t.
</blockquote>
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Go to my profile and check out the answers that I provide. I believe that they are examples of the kind of help the OPs need. But I growing tired - to the point that I may just stop reading the questions altogether.
</p>
<p>
I do not want Code Project to become a StackOverflow. I want questions answered. But I also want good questions asked!
</p>
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Recently I have been visiting quick answers - view unanswered questions. Today, a member posted the question How to get count of occurrence of characters in string using c#? That was it! No attempted solution. No report of Google searching. No nothing! OK. So now I agree with OriginalGriff regarding misuse of the discussions forums. So I think that we, as a community, need a way to tell the OP that his question is rejected for lack of trying. We also need a mechanism to tell the OP that we think that the answer to his question could be used for nefarious purposes that we, as a community, do not support. Under the Report flag, all we have is Unclear or incomplete. Repost. Not a question. Off-topic. Spam/abusive. The question cited above is none of these. A Google search of "c# occurrences of a character in a string" returned more than 90K answers. So apparently the OP didn't try Googling. The OP may not have been aware of the wealth of online resources. So how do we educate our junior members? I would suggest adding two items to the list Rejected by the Forum. You must at least try to get a solution before you post here. Rejected by the Forum. The answer could be used for bad things. Both of these should remove the question from the forum and send an email to the OP explaining why the action was taken. The OP should be able to click a link in the email and defend his question.
Gus Gustafson
"Not a question." would fit just right IMHO. Followed by a STFW and a punch on delete key.
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I think that my main concern here is not the number of visitors but rather the number of professionals who are willing to put up with this type of question. I think that Gemmell hits the nail on the head with his post [Gus Gustafson](http://mattgemmell.com/what-have-you-tried/>What have you tried</a>:
</p>
<blockquote>
There’s a huge knock-on negative effect of the proliferation of this unwillingness to make the effort to solve problems yourself. People who are in a position to help stop frequenting the chatrooms, forums and mailing lists. “Bad signal to noise ratio”, they say, with some justification. The losers are the genuine (by which I mean well-meaning, willing-to-learn people who just happen to be new to a particular area) developers who naturally choose those places to ask their legitimate questions. These people have a reduced chance to get meaningful guidance because of the effort involved in working out who’s a lazy time-waster and who isn’t.
</blockquote>
<p>
Go to my profile and check out the answers that I provide. I believe that they are examples of the kind of help the OPs need. But I growing tired - to the point that I may just stop reading the questions altogether.
</p>
<p>
I do not want Code Project to become a StackOverflow. I want questions answered. But I also want good questions asked!
</p>
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