Misuse of the Quick Answers Forum
-
Given that Mr. Maunder's goal for this site is the maximum amount of visitors possible, I don't think he will agree to any policy that makes people feel unwelcome, no matter how dumb their questions are.
The difficult we do right away... ...the impossible takes slightly longer.
I want our community to be able to help as many people as possible, but encouraging laziness helps no one.
cheers Chris Maunder
-
Recently I have been visiting quick answers - view unanswered questions. Today, a member posted the question How to get count of occurrence of characters in string using c#? That was it! No attempted solution. No report of Google searching. No nothing! OK. So now I agree with OriginalGriff regarding misuse of the discussions forums. So I think that we, as a community, need a way to tell the OP that his question is rejected for lack of trying. We also need a mechanism to tell the OP that we think that the answer to his question could be used for nefarious purposes that we, as a community, do not support. Under the Report flag, all we have is Unclear or incomplete. Repost. Not a question. Off-topic. Spam/abusive. The question cited above is none of these. A Google search of "c# occurrences of a character in a string" returned more than 90K answers. So apparently the OP didn't try Googling. The OP may not have been aware of the wealth of online resources. So how do we educate our junior members? I would suggest adding two items to the list Rejected by the Forum. You must at least try to get a solution before you post here. Rejected by the Forum. The answer could be used for bad things. Both of these should remove the question from the forum and send an email to the OP explaining why the action was taken. The OP should be able to click a link in the email and defend his question.
Gus Gustafson
"How to get count of occurrence of characters in string using c#?" You actually have lots of options here. 1. Mark it as unclear or incomplete if you feel that it's too ambiguous 2. Downvote it and move on. 3. Answer it. 4. Post a comment asking the user to expand on what their problem actually is given that a simple Google search brings up a million answers. Maybe they have a specific issue. For me there are no stupid questions. There are lazy people, or people who can't ask questions properly due to language or personality, and people who don't know enough to know how to ask the question. Option 4 - getting the poster to update their question to explain why he's asking such an obvious question, and asking for a rundown of what's beem tried - is by far the best. The trick is: how do we do this, and how long do we give a question before it gets categorised into the Lazy Question bucket.
cheers Chris Maunder
-
Recently I have been visiting quick answers - view unanswered questions. Today, a member posted the question How to get count of occurrence of characters in string using c#? That was it! No attempted solution. No report of Google searching. No nothing! OK. So now I agree with OriginalGriff regarding misuse of the discussions forums. So I think that we, as a community, need a way to tell the OP that his question is rejected for lack of trying. We also need a mechanism to tell the OP that we think that the answer to his question could be used for nefarious purposes that we, as a community, do not support. Under the Report flag, all we have is Unclear or incomplete. Repost. Not a question. Off-topic. Spam/abusive. The question cited above is none of these. A Google search of "c# occurrences of a character in a string" returned more than 90K answers. So apparently the OP didn't try Googling. The OP may not have been aware of the wealth of online resources. So how do we educate our junior members? I would suggest adding two items to the list Rejected by the Forum. You must at least try to get a solution before you post here. Rejected by the Forum. The answer could be used for bad things. Both of these should remove the question from the forum and send an email to the OP explaining why the action was taken. The OP should be able to click a link in the email and defend his question.
Gus Gustafson
I think if you have not been active on that forum for a while what you witness may come as a shock. I think the credibility of the forum has become diluted by a deluge of really hopeless questions AND answers. Here I make every allowance for those that have English as a second language. It is very often quite obvious a question has substance even though the English is very bad. For those that choose to act as experts there are comments and answers. Many seem to have no concept of the difference and the experienced lead the novices. There are also answers submitted for questions that are totally incomplete and waiting for elaboration from the questioner. Then there are answers delivered as homilies with no technical content which are voted up and oddly sometimes accepted. These contribute nothing to the quality of the Q&A but are just part and parcel of what it has become driven very much by the bizarre and quite ruthless chasing of points. [Edit] I don't want to sound completely negative. I find the Q&A very absorbing at times - there are some very good discussions initiated. The quality of many questions and answers is excellent. Answering questions is quite a challenging exercise and is what I think keeps many interested. I wonder if a template such as for article submission with sections for question, what have I tried, which words did I google, and code for example would improve the focus of questioners.
Peter Wasser "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
-
Recently I have been visiting quick answers - view unanswered questions. Today, a member posted the question How to get count of occurrence of characters in string using c#? That was it! No attempted solution. No report of Google searching. No nothing! OK. So now I agree with OriginalGriff regarding misuse of the discussions forums. So I think that we, as a community, need a way to tell the OP that his question is rejected for lack of trying. We also need a mechanism to tell the OP that we think that the answer to his question could be used for nefarious purposes that we, as a community, do not support. Under the Report flag, all we have is Unclear or incomplete. Repost. Not a question. Off-topic. Spam/abusive. The question cited above is none of these. A Google search of "c# occurrences of a character in a string" returned more than 90K answers. So apparently the OP didn't try Googling. The OP may not have been aware of the wealth of online resources. So how do we educate our junior members? I would suggest adding two items to the list Rejected by the Forum. You must at least try to get a solution before you post here. Rejected by the Forum. The answer could be used for bad things. Both of these should remove the question from the forum and send an email to the OP explaining why the action was taken. The OP should be able to click a link in the email and defend his question.
Gus Gustafson
Hi Gus, Well, I agree with you that there is a major structural problem on QA here, but my diagnosis is a bit more hopeful. I've already posted my thoughts on QA, and suggestions for change, in depth, both on the "Suggs and Buggs" forum, and the Lounge, several times. "could be used for nefarious purposes" I cannot understand what you mean by this in the context of your post. There are many reasons a poster ... particularly someone new to programming, or new to CodeProject, and/or someone whose native language is not English ... may present questions that appear confused, or poorly worded. These include cultural factors, personality factors (shyness, fear of making mistakes), as well as the "darker sides" of character, like homework-shirking, laziness, etc. And, some people genuinely don't have a clue, or are overwhelmed by their plunge into programming. I repeat what I consider the simplest, and best, suggestion I have made: when a person posts a question, do not accept the question for publication on CP unless the OP has checked off some (minimum number of) appropriate tags. Meanwhile, I hope that all of us here can exhibit the "angelic in our nature" and welcome newcomers, and people from other cultures whose native language is not English, with warmth, and patience, asking helpful clarifying questions in comments. If the newcomer soon proves to be a homework-shirk, a gimme-leech, an urgentz-feed-my-face-now, exhibits an arrogant sense of entitlement manifested as never responding to direct clarifying questions, etc.: well, let the down-votes begin. The structural problem with respondents/responses to QA questions is, imho, even more serious, and I've had my say about that, already.
“I speak in a poem of the ancient food of heroes: humiliation, unhappiness, discord. Those things are given to us to transform, so that we may make from the miserable circumstances of our lives things that are eternal, or aspire to be so.” Jorge Luis Borges
-
You could be the "better man" and help the poor bastard level up his/her question to better standards; Or if you really feel offended, just let it slide into oblivion.
I'd rather be phishing!
I do that. See my response to the OP's question.
Gus Gustafson
-
I think if you have not been active on that forum for a while what you witness may come as a shock. I think the credibility of the forum has become diluted by a deluge of really hopeless questions AND answers. Here I make every allowance for those that have English as a second language. It is very often quite obvious a question has substance even though the English is very bad. For those that choose to act as experts there are comments and answers. Many seem to have no concept of the difference and the experienced lead the novices. There are also answers submitted for questions that are totally incomplete and waiting for elaboration from the questioner. Then there are answers delivered as homilies with no technical content which are voted up and oddly sometimes accepted. These contribute nothing to the quality of the Q&A but are just part and parcel of what it has become driven very much by the bizarre and quite ruthless chasing of points. [Edit] I don't want to sound completely negative. I find the Q&A very absorbing at times - there are some very good discussions initiated. The quality of many questions and answers is excellent. Answering questions is quite a challenging exercise and is what I think keeps many interested. I wonder if a template such as for article submission with sections for question, what have I tried, which words did I google, and code for example would improve the focus of questioners.
Peter Wasser "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
Hi Peter, I agree (sadly) with your diagnosis, but I do not think the patient's condition is "terminal," and all we can do is provide hospice-care ... I believe strongly that we (CP members), and CP staff, can change this for the better. In the meantime, if you and I choose to "hang in there" with QA, no matter how wild the ride, well ... we can continue, as I observe you, and others, doing ... as I hope I am doing ... to give thoughtful clarifying questions to help posters make their questions clearer, and give on-topic, helpful, solutions with tested code, and focused links to resources. And, we can reward, with our votes, and comments, behavior by others that exhibits what we evaluate as "quality," and "virtue." To the extent our behavior models what we'd like to see QA become, I believe we are a force for positive change: oh yes, that statement is a valid indictment of my character as hopelessly romantic :) sincerely, Bill
“I speak in a poem of the ancient food of heroes: humiliation, unhappiness, discord. Those things are given to us to transform, so that we may make from the miserable circumstances of our lives things that are eternal, or aspire to be so.” Jorge Luis Borges
-
"How to get count of occurrence of characters in string using c#?" You actually have lots of options here. 1. Mark it as unclear or incomplete if you feel that it's too ambiguous 2. Downvote it and move on. 3. Answer it. 4. Post a comment asking the user to expand on what their problem actually is given that a simple Google search brings up a million answers. Maybe they have a specific issue. For me there are no stupid questions. There are lazy people, or people who can't ask questions properly due to language or personality, and people who don't know enough to know how to ask the question. Option 4 - getting the poster to update their question to explain why he's asking such an obvious question, and asking for a rundown of what's beem tried - is by far the best. The trick is: how do we do this, and how long do we give a question before it gets categorised into the Lazy Question bucket.
cheers Chris Maunder
I think that my main concern here is not the number of visitors but rather the number of professionals who are willing to put up with this type of question. I think that Gemmell hits the nail on the head with his post [Gus Gustafson](http://mattgemmell.com/what-have-you-tried/>What have you tried</a>:
</p>
<blockquote>
There’s a huge knock-on negative effect of the proliferation of this unwillingness to make the effort to solve problems yourself. People who are in a position to help stop frequenting the chatrooms, forums and mailing lists. “Bad signal to noise ratio”, they say, with some justification. The losers are the genuine (by which I mean well-meaning, willing-to-learn people who just happen to be new to a particular area) developers who naturally choose those places to ask their legitimate questions. These people have a reduced chance to get meaningful guidance because of the effort involved in working out who’s a lazy time-waster and who isn’t.
</blockquote>
<p>
Go to my profile and check out the answers that I provide. I believe that they are examples of the kind of help the OPs need. But I growing tired - to the point that I may just stop reading the questions altogether.
</p>
<p>
I do not want Code Project to become a StackOverflow. I want questions answered. But I also want good questions asked!
</p>
<div class=) -
Recently I have been visiting quick answers - view unanswered questions. Today, a member posted the question How to get count of occurrence of characters in string using c#? That was it! No attempted solution. No report of Google searching. No nothing! OK. So now I agree with OriginalGriff regarding misuse of the discussions forums. So I think that we, as a community, need a way to tell the OP that his question is rejected for lack of trying. We also need a mechanism to tell the OP that we think that the answer to his question could be used for nefarious purposes that we, as a community, do not support. Under the Report flag, all we have is Unclear or incomplete. Repost. Not a question. Off-topic. Spam/abusive. The question cited above is none of these. A Google search of "c# occurrences of a character in a string" returned more than 90K answers. So apparently the OP didn't try Googling. The OP may not have been aware of the wealth of online resources. So how do we educate our junior members? I would suggest adding two items to the list Rejected by the Forum. You must at least try to get a solution before you post here. Rejected by the Forum. The answer could be used for bad things. Both of these should remove the question from the forum and send an email to the OP explaining why the action was taken. The OP should be able to click a link in the email and defend his question.
Gus Gustafson
"Not a question." would fit just right IMHO. Followed by a STFW and a punch on delete key.
-
I think that my main concern here is not the number of visitors but rather the number of professionals who are willing to put up with this type of question. I think that Gemmell hits the nail on the head with his post [Gus Gustafson](http://mattgemmell.com/what-have-you-tried/>What have you tried</a>:
</p>
<blockquote>
There’s a huge knock-on negative effect of the proliferation of this unwillingness to make the effort to solve problems yourself. People who are in a position to help stop frequenting the chatrooms, forums and mailing lists. “Bad signal to noise ratio”, they say, with some justification. The losers are the genuine (by which I mean well-meaning, willing-to-learn people who just happen to be new to a particular area) developers who naturally choose those places to ask their legitimate questions. These people have a reduced chance to get meaningful guidance because of the effort involved in working out who’s a lazy time-waster and who isn’t.
</blockquote>
<p>
Go to my profile and check out the answers that I provide. I believe that they are examples of the kind of help the OPs need. But I growing tired - to the point that I may just stop reading the questions altogether.
</p>
<p>
I do not want Code Project to become a StackOverflow. I want questions answered. But I also want good questions asked!
</p>
<div class=) -
:laugh: There is already a list on the right hand side of the screen when you post your question, and they don't read that!
A few simple rules when posting your question.
Be courteous. Everyone here helps because they enjoy helping, not because it's their job.
Have you searched or Googled for a solution?
Be specific! eg "How do I change the dialog colour?" instead of "My code doesn't work. Help?"
Tag your question appropriately.
If you have a school or university assignment, assume that your teacher or lecturer is also reading these forums.
Do not remove or empty a message if others have replied.
Your question may be edited or retagged by others. Anything inappropriate will be removed.Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
I shouldn't be allowed near a computer on Sunday :doh:
-
No, I don't think that's good - there is a minimum length limit on answers which frustrates me from time to time, and I have to add "this added to make the answer long enough to post"... Trouble is, something like that is difficult for real beginners, who do need our help - not the solution to their homework, but actual help to start working out where to start! I remember when I got started, I didn't have a damn clue where to begun writing a program, and that can "freeze your mind" and you can't produce code. If the site you turn to for help won't let you even ask the question and you don't understand why not... It's bad enough that some people will just be rude because you didn't ask using exactly the right words... :sigh:
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
100% agreed with you. +5 :)
My Latest Article : What is DRY ? Nothing is Impossible for Willing Heart.
-
Recently I have been visiting quick answers - view unanswered questions. Today, a member posted the question How to get count of occurrence of characters in string using c#? That was it! No attempted solution. No report of Google searching. No nothing! OK. So now I agree with OriginalGriff regarding misuse of the discussions forums. So I think that we, as a community, need a way to tell the OP that his question is rejected for lack of trying. We also need a mechanism to tell the OP that we think that the answer to his question could be used for nefarious purposes that we, as a community, do not support. Under the Report flag, all we have is Unclear or incomplete. Repost. Not a question. Off-topic. Spam/abusive. The question cited above is none of these. A Google search of "c# occurrences of a character in a string" returned more than 90K answers. So apparently the OP didn't try Googling. The OP may not have been aware of the wealth of online resources. So how do we educate our junior members? I would suggest adding two items to the list Rejected by the Forum. You must at least try to get a solution before you post here. Rejected by the Forum. The answer could be used for bad things. Both of these should remove the question from the forum and send an email to the OP explaining why the action was taken. The OP should be able to click a link in the email and defend his question.
Gus Gustafson
With all due respect, I feel that member of this site should be treated as the son of this site. As a son/daughter asks his parents for any kind of information, any member should also be allowed to do so; Let all users from beginners to experts be active participants of codeproject.com.
-
Recently I have been visiting quick answers - view unanswered questions. Today, a member posted the question How to get count of occurrence of characters in string using c#? That was it! No attempted solution. No report of Google searching. No nothing! OK. So now I agree with OriginalGriff regarding misuse of the discussions forums. So I think that we, as a community, need a way to tell the OP that his question is rejected for lack of trying. We also need a mechanism to tell the OP that we think that the answer to his question could be used for nefarious purposes that we, as a community, do not support. Under the Report flag, all we have is Unclear or incomplete. Repost. Not a question. Off-topic. Spam/abusive. The question cited above is none of these. A Google search of "c# occurrences of a character in a string" returned more than 90K answers. So apparently the OP didn't try Googling. The OP may not have been aware of the wealth of online resources. So how do we educate our junior members? I would suggest adding two items to the list Rejected by the Forum. You must at least try to get a solution before you post here. Rejected by the Forum. The answer could be used for bad things. Both of these should remove the question from the forum and send an email to the OP explaining why the action was taken. The OP should be able to click a link in the email and defend his question.
Gus Gustafson
First, this is the kind of question asked by someone given an assignment in school. Normally, they aren't answered. However, you have an opportunity to have a little fun. Come up with an answer that's as advanced as you can come up with. For this one, I'd probably use LINQ or lambdas because it's obvious the guy is in a beginner's class, and any instructor worth his salt will raise an eyebrow at something like that. The more over the top the solution is, the more likely it is that his instructor will notice the work isn't his. BTW, nothing will change regarding the quality of questions. Someone else already pointed it out - CodeProject's primary goal is to make money, and the number of visitors - regardless of coding adeptitude (I know it's not a word, but it was fun to type) - is how it makes that money.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013 -
It's worse than that. My response was about four paragraphs long. What you see is a very small portion of it. Code Project needs to fix a number of errors on the site or I will definitely stop using Code Project. Too bad.
Gus Gustafson
-
Hi Gus, Well, I agree with you that there is a major structural problem on QA here, but my diagnosis is a bit more hopeful. I've already posted my thoughts on QA, and suggestions for change, in depth, both on the "Suggs and Buggs" forum, and the Lounge, several times. "could be used for nefarious purposes" I cannot understand what you mean by this in the context of your post. There are many reasons a poster ... particularly someone new to programming, or new to CodeProject, and/or someone whose native language is not English ... may present questions that appear confused, or poorly worded. These include cultural factors, personality factors (shyness, fear of making mistakes), as well as the "darker sides" of character, like homework-shirking, laziness, etc. And, some people genuinely don't have a clue, or are overwhelmed by their plunge into programming. I repeat what I consider the simplest, and best, suggestion I have made: when a person posts a question, do not accept the question for publication on CP unless the OP has checked off some (minimum number of) appropriate tags. Meanwhile, I hope that all of us here can exhibit the "angelic in our nature" and welcome newcomers, and people from other cultures whose native language is not English, with warmth, and patience, asking helpful clarifying questions in comments. If the newcomer soon proves to be a homework-shirk, a gimme-leech, an urgentz-feed-my-face-now, exhibits an arrogant sense of entitlement manifested as never responding to direct clarifying questions, etc.: well, let the down-votes begin. The structural problem with respondents/responses to QA questions is, imho, even more serious, and I've had my say about that, already.
“I speak in a poem of the ancient food of heroes: humiliation, unhappiness, discord. Those things are given to us to transform, so that we may make from the miserable circumstances of our lives things that are eternal, or aspire to be so.” Jorge Luis Borges
Certain questions delve deeply into issues that I can only say scare me. I am planning to publish an article on traversing web sites. However, I am concerned that it could be used nefariously (aka Prism). So I am hesitant to publish. Likewise with those questions that are advanced in response but beginner in question. So I don't answer them and hope that no one else will.
Gus Gustafson
-
"Not a question." would fit just right IMHO. Followed by a STFW and a punch on delete key.
It was a question. It was just not researched. BTW, vulgarity has no place here.
Gus Gustafson
-
With all due respect, I feel that member of this site should be treated as the son of this site. As a son/daughter asks his parents for any kind of information, any member should also be allowed to do so; Let all users from beginners to experts be active participants of codeproject.com.
You are putting words in my mouth. I am not complaining about a legitimate question, i.e., one for wch the OP cannot find an answer on the web, but rather questions with no indication that the OP even tried.
Gus Gustafson
-
First, this is the kind of question asked by someone given an assignment in school. Normally, they aren't answered. However, you have an opportunity to have a little fun. Come up with an answer that's as advanced as you can come up with. For this one, I'd probably use LINQ or lambdas because it's obvious the guy is in a beginner's class, and any instructor worth his salt will raise an eyebrow at something like that. The more over the top the solution is, the more likely it is that his instructor will notice the work isn't his. BTW, nothing will change regarding the quality of questions. Someone else already pointed it out - CodeProject's primary goal is to make money, and the number of visitors - regardless of coding adeptitude (I know it's not a word, but it was fun to type) - is how it makes that money.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013I am strongly against that approach. As other have suggested there are no stupid questions. I generally agree. But if a young'un is having problems, one of the only call centers that the OP can use is CP. I would think that following your suggestion would pull down the value of this site.
Gus Gustafson
-
It was a question. It was just not researched. BTW, vulgarity has no place here.
Gus Gustafson
I suggest reading How to ask questions the smart way[^]. Eric Raymond says it as well: Stupid: Where can I find out stuff about the Foonly Flurbamatic? This question just begs for "STFW" as a reply. Stupid: I'm having problems with my motherboard. Can anybody help? J. Random Hacker's response to this is likely to be “Right. Do you need burping and diapering, too?” followed by a punch of the delete key. But I suppose you're right. Your thread, your rules.
-
I am strongly against that approach. As other have suggested there are no stupid questions. I generally agree. But if a young'un is having problems, one of the only call centers that the OP can use is CP. I would think that following your suggestion would pull down the value of this site.
Gus Gustafson
A young'un having problems ain't the same as a young'un that's too damn lazy to figure out something like a homework assignment on his own, or at the very least, google for an answer. Approach it any way you see fit, but complaining about it in the lounge is pointless. Either answer the question, or don't.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
