This isn't a programming question....I hope...
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words of wisdom (ish) : build the model / data classes first before you event vaguely get started on the UI as it is too difficult to do massive change to the bindings later on.
That wisdom is generally applicable.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello[^]
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words of wisdom (ish) : build the model / data classes first before you event vaguely get started on the UI as it is too difficult to do massive change to the bindings later on.
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I've just built myself a nice Access DB to keep track of my Gym workouts to keep me focused on the gym (always on an eye on progression not stagnation and boredom). During the build I sidetracked to build myself a little WinForms app to auto generate some Access VBA Class code rather than having to write it all out for another Access DB (which I had an idea about). Easy peasy, whacked it together in virtually no time at all...then it struck me...I have absolutely no idea about WPF! So, my new mission, which I accept, well sort of accept, sort of dread - is to learn WPF!!! (Which I will only be able to do in my 'spare' time outside of work, seeing as that I don't do C# in my day to day stuff). So, I've just bought "WPF 4.5 Unleashed" by Adam Nathan, and shall begin be working my way through that - with the ambition to turn my Access DB into a WPF application, and maybe to ditch the Access backend altogether replaced by something that I haven't decided yet. Anyone got any quick tips, gotchas, helpful hints, 'beware of' or any other words of wisdom before I begin my fraught and perilous journey?? :D
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
The initial learning curve for WPF is pretty steep but having a book should give you a jump-start. After that, it's all fun and games ;)
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I've just built myself a nice Access DB to keep track of my Gym workouts to keep me focused on the gym (always on an eye on progression not stagnation and boredom). During the build I sidetracked to build myself a little WinForms app to auto generate some Access VBA Class code rather than having to write it all out for another Access DB (which I had an idea about). Easy peasy, whacked it together in virtually no time at all...then it struck me...I have absolutely no idea about WPF! So, my new mission, which I accept, well sort of accept, sort of dread - is to learn WPF!!! (Which I will only be able to do in my 'spare' time outside of work, seeing as that I don't do C# in my day to day stuff). So, I've just bought "WPF 4.5 Unleashed" by Adam Nathan, and shall begin be working my way through that - with the ambition to turn my Access DB into a WPF application, and maybe to ditch the Access backend altogether replaced by something that I haven't decided yet. Anyone got any quick tips, gotchas, helpful hints, 'beware of' or any other words of wisdom before I begin my fraught and perilous journey?? :D
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
I have the same book from 2007. (3.0) I only got through the second chapter before losing interest. One of these days I do intend to try it again. At least now MS includes the designer with VS. Good luck! There's nothing wrong with using Access for small and simple applications particularly for single-user apps...unless you already have SQL Server installed that is. :)
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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I've just built myself a nice Access DB to keep track of my Gym workouts to keep me focused on the gym (always on an eye on progression not stagnation and boredom). During the build I sidetracked to build myself a little WinForms app to auto generate some Access VBA Class code rather than having to write it all out for another Access DB (which I had an idea about). Easy peasy, whacked it together in virtually no time at all...then it struck me...I have absolutely no idea about WPF! So, my new mission, which I accept, well sort of accept, sort of dread - is to learn WPF!!! (Which I will only be able to do in my 'spare' time outside of work, seeing as that I don't do C# in my day to day stuff). So, I've just bought "WPF 4.5 Unleashed" by Adam Nathan, and shall begin be working my way through that - with the ambition to turn my Access DB into a WPF application, and maybe to ditch the Access backend altogether replaced by something that I haven't decided yet. Anyone got any quick tips, gotchas, helpful hints, 'beware of' or any other words of wisdom before I begin my fraught and perilous journey?? :D
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
1.21 Gigawatts wrote:
So, I've just bought "WPF 4.5 Unleashed" by Adam Nathan,
Waste of money :) , as I think there are some really excellent series here on CP regarding WPF. Not saying the book is bad or anything.
1.21 Gigawatts wrote:
WPF 4.5 Unleashed
I'd put it back on the leash, get out the shotgun and kill it. ;) Marc
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Dump Access. SQL Server is equally as easy once you get past the separation of Data Storage/Retrieval and UI and the change will immediately put you in a different class of developer. WPF sucks, Start with Win Forms to learn the fundamentals of saving and retrieving data so you are comfortable before you move to WPF and do everything Bass Ackwards.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
Yeah, I've played with SQL Server before. I had built myself a little website with SQL Server 2000 as the backend and implemented CRUD Data Access layer to/from the DB, using Stored Procedures etc. However, that was a while ago, so I'll have to do a bit of re-learning!! :)
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
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Don't? By the time you're fluent at WPF, Microsoft will have changed their preferred platform once again and you'll be back at step one... ;)
Baahhhaaa!! Yeah - that's why I haven't started learning it before now! :)
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
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1.21 Gigawatts wrote:
So, I've just bought "WPF 4.5 Unleashed" by Adam Nathan,
Waste of money :) , as I think there are some really excellent series here on CP regarding WPF. Not saying the book is bad or anything.
1.21 Gigawatts wrote:
WPF 4.5 Unleashed
I'd put it back on the leash, get out the shotgun and kill it. ;) Marc
Ahh!! Don;t say that! The book got recommendations from our own Sacha Baber and Pete O'Hanlon - so I thought it must be a good start!! (But I will venture into CP articles I'm sure when something doesn't quite gel in me noggin!!
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
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Ahh!! Don;t say that! The book got recommendations from our own Sacha Baber and Pete O'Hanlon - so I thought it must be a good start!! (But I will venture into CP articles I'm sure when something doesn't quite gel in me noggin!!
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
1.21 Gigawatts wrote:
The book got recommendations from our own Sacha Baber and Pete O'Hanlon
Like I said, I wasn't diss'ing the book at all. Just poking at you. ;) Marc
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I have the same book from 2007. (3.0) I only got through the second chapter before losing interest. One of these days I do intend to try it again. At least now MS includes the designer with VS. Good luck! There's nothing wrong with using Access for small and simple applications particularly for single-user apps...unless you already have SQL Server installed that is. :)
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
kmoorevs wrote:
There's nothing wrong with using Access for small and simple applications
Indeed - it is quite a powerful tool, although it is far too easy to produce VBA spaghetti code and the lack of certain controls as standard (like a List View) is a bit annoying. Going from coding up an Access Form to developing a little App in C# was just a world of difference, C# allows you to be so neat and concise!
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
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1.21 Gigawatts wrote:
The book got recommendations from our own Sacha Baber and Pete O'Hanlon
Like I said, I wasn't diss'ing the book at all. Just poking at you. ;) Marc
I know I know! The articles on Code Project have always helped and amazed me over the years - so many talented and dedicated people! :)
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
-
I've just built myself a nice Access DB to keep track of my Gym workouts to keep me focused on the gym (always on an eye on progression not stagnation and boredom). During the build I sidetracked to build myself a little WinForms app to auto generate some Access VBA Class code rather than having to write it all out for another Access DB (which I had an idea about). Easy peasy, whacked it together in virtually no time at all...then it struck me...I have absolutely no idea about WPF! So, my new mission, which I accept, well sort of accept, sort of dread - is to learn WPF!!! (Which I will only be able to do in my 'spare' time outside of work, seeing as that I don't do C# in my day to day stuff). So, I've just bought "WPF 4.5 Unleashed" by Adam Nathan, and shall begin be working my way through that - with the ambition to turn my Access DB into a WPF application, and maybe to ditch the Access backend altogether replaced by something that I haven't decided yet. Anyone got any quick tips, gotchas, helpful hints, 'beware of' or any other words of wisdom before I begin my fraught and perilous journey?? :D
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
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Yeah, I've played with SQL Server before. I had built myself a little website with SQL Server 2000 as the backend and implemented CRUD Data Access layer to/from the DB, using Stored Procedures etc. However, that was a while ago, so I'll have to do a bit of re-learning!! :)
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
1.21 Gigawatts wrote:
I'll have to do a bit of re un-learning!!
FTFY.
You'll never get very far if all you do is follow instructions.
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Dump Access. SQL Server is equally as easy once you get past the separation of Data Storage/Retrieval and UI and the change will immediately put you in a different class of developer. WPF sucks, Start with Win Forms to learn the fundamentals of saving and retrieving data so you are comfortable before you move to WPF and do everything Bass Ackwards.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
Is there an easy way to create reports as powerfully as you can using Access/Word combo? Using stuff like the following it was very simple to create/open Word documents and get customized printouts quickly. Opening an existing Word document with bookmarks in it allowed the creation of customized letters/reports per individual which was quite impressive by my standards, and I've never seen anything to indicate it is that easy in SQL.
'Fill in the address block: Dim BMRange As Range Set BMRange = wordApp.ActiveDocument.Bookmarks("AddressBlock").Range BMRange.text = addressBlockUsing this approach in a Physical Therapy staffing company I made reports per therapist of all the documentation they needed, and work they needed to get done, and filled in anything that could be automated. It was an impressive single-button paper shooter-outer! Sorry for the programming question, but you opened up my curiosity again and it has bugged me for a while.
My website :: My book revealing the forgotten astronomy of our ancestors.
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Dump Access. SQL Server is equally as easy once you get past the separation of Data Storage/Retrieval and UI and the change will immediately put you in a different class of developer. WPF sucks, Start with Win Forms to learn the fundamentals of saving and retrieving data so you are comfortable before you move to WPF and do everything Bass Ackwards.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
WPF sucks, Start with Win Forms to learn the fundamentals of saving and retrieving data so you are comfortable before you move to WPF and do everything Bass Ackwards.
You can't be serious!! I did WinForms for 25 years, and WPF for the last 5, and I will NEVER again touch WinForms. It's archaic, outdated, and everything you want to do is a PITA compared to WPF. WPF is hands down a much better tool than WinForms. I design UI's now that I could only dream about back then. As far as "learning the fundamentals" - fundamentals of what? Programming? You don't need WinForms or WPF for that. "before you move to WPF and do everything Bass Ackwards." - What in WPF is backwards??
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
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Is there an easy way to create reports as powerfully as you can using Access/Word combo? Using stuff like the following it was very simple to create/open Word documents and get customized printouts quickly. Opening an existing Word document with bookmarks in it allowed the creation of customized letters/reports per individual which was quite impressive by my standards, and I've never seen anything to indicate it is that easy in SQL.
'Fill in the address block: Dim BMRange As Range Set BMRange = wordApp.ActiveDocument.Bookmarks("AddressBlock").Range BMRange.text = addressBlockUsing this approach in a Physical Therapy staffing company I made reports per therapist of all the documentation they needed, and work they needed to get done, and filled in anything that could be automated. It was an impressive single-button paper shooter-outer! Sorry for the programming question, but you opened up my curiosity again and it has bugged me for a while.
My website :: My book revealing the forgotten astronomy of our ancestors.
Yes, there are easy ways to create report. DevExpress is a lot better than Crystal Reports. Unf. the situation your described is not easy at all! You have created a fragile system that "works" and required institutional knowledge. 1) Is Word Installed 2) Is it the correct version or Work 3) Did Word Hang 4) The user changed all of the Book Marks and it doesn't work anymore 5) etc. The visual design of the reporting is easily able to be accomplished via reporting tools, SSRS, Crystal, xtraReports but has the benefit of being managed within the environment and through Source and Version management. A one-owner shop that never has to worry about someone else changing something is a lot different from designing a report in a company with 15,000 employees that rotates employees more often than I rotate my sheets. In all honesty, the toughest question to answer is: Can this be maintained. Not how many lines of code did it take? It is really hard to write up any appropriate thesis with a defense against Access and Word in the space of a comment but I have used Access and Word in the before the before and I don't know so that is probably defense enough.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
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Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
WPF sucks, Start with Win Forms to learn the fundamentals of saving and retrieving data so you are comfortable before you move to WPF and do everything Bass Ackwards.
You can't be serious!! I did WinForms for 25 years, and WPF for the last 5, and I will NEVER again touch WinForms. It's archaic, outdated, and everything you want to do is a PITA compared to WPF. WPF is hands down a much better tool than WinForms. I design UI's now that I could only dream about back then. As far as "learning the fundamentals" - fundamentals of what? Programming? You don't need WinForms or WPF for that. "before you move to WPF and do everything Bass Ackwards." - What in WPF is backwards??
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
When I say learning the fundamentals, there are a lot of "user interaction" type items that are far more simple in Windows Forms. It is the simplicity of the tool that I like. WPF adds, complexity, which for certain individuals on certain mindsets may be great. But for a user that designed a system in Access I would never recommend WPF as the next step.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
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When I say learning the fundamentals, there are a lot of "user interaction" type items that are far more simple in Windows Forms. It is the simplicity of the tool that I like. WPF adds, complexity, which for certain individuals on certain mindsets may be great. But for a user that designed a system in Access I would never recommend WPF as the next step.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
So you would recommend he step back instead of forward? Learn an outdated tool that is no longer mainstream and he wouldn't find a job in instead of a modern more capable tool that is widely used? There is zero logic in this.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
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Yes, there are easy ways to create report. DevExpress is a lot better than Crystal Reports. Unf. the situation your described is not easy at all! You have created a fragile system that "works" and required institutional knowledge. 1) Is Word Installed 2) Is it the correct version or Work 3) Did Word Hang 4) The user changed all of the Book Marks and it doesn't work anymore 5) etc. The visual design of the reporting is easily able to be accomplished via reporting tools, SSRS, Crystal, xtraReports but has the benefit of being managed within the environment and through Source and Version management. A one-owner shop that never has to worry about someone else changing something is a lot different from designing a report in a company with 15,000 employees that rotates employees more often than I rotate my sheets. In all honesty, the toughest question to answer is: Can this be maintained. Not how many lines of code did it take? It is really hard to write up any appropriate thesis with a defense against Access and Word in the space of a comment but I have used Access and Word in the before the before and I don't know so that is probably defense enough.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
Unf. the situation your described is not easy at all!
For a small shop, it is very easy (I would never be so stupid as to give regular users access to the forms!), but I won't argue that it is inappropriate for something larger. You haven't really made me think that any of the pro reporting tools have all the power of Word, and how it can be integrated with Access, and that is my fundamental question. For instance, how easy is it to create reports that look like an informal letter? And maybe even incorporate background watermarks or other artwork as Word can do? Maybe the simplest example would be:
Dear Mr. Rogers,
We've noticed that you've failed to supply us with X, Y, and Z. We need X by Date1, and Y by Date2. The remaining item(s) don't have a specific due date, but we would appreciate receiving them at your earliest convenience...
Even with 'X,' 'Y,' and 'Z' coming from different databases, and changing the Mr/Mrs/Ms/Dr salutation, I can see doing this fairly easily with Word/Access. If you say "Yes, it is easy with the SQL report builders" to this specific example my curiosity will be sated! I've just never seen any examples of this online anywhere. Everything I've found shows tables being output, not something that has the nuance of the above. Thanks!
My website :: My book revealing the forgotten astronomy of our ancestors.
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Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
Unf. the situation your described is not easy at all!
For a small shop, it is very easy (I would never be so stupid as to give regular users access to the forms!), but I won't argue that it is inappropriate for something larger. You haven't really made me think that any of the pro reporting tools have all the power of Word, and how it can be integrated with Access, and that is my fundamental question. For instance, how easy is it to create reports that look like an informal letter? And maybe even incorporate background watermarks or other artwork as Word can do? Maybe the simplest example would be:
Dear Mr. Rogers,
We've noticed that you've failed to supply us with X, Y, and Z. We need X by Date1, and Y by Date2. The remaining item(s) don't have a specific due date, but we would appreciate receiving them at your earliest convenience...
Even with 'X,' 'Y,' and 'Z' coming from different databases, and changing the Mr/Mrs/Ms/Dr salutation, I can see doing this fairly easily with Word/Access. If you say "Yes, it is easy with the SQL report builders" to this specific example my curiosity will be sated! I've just never seen any examples of this online anywhere. Everything I've found shows tables being output, not something that has the nuance of the above. Thanks!
My website :: My book revealing the forgotten astronomy of our ancestors.
Fairly trivial. The technique I use in all of the tools is to embed a {0} through {1} so I can use the String.Format method, but it is just as easy to add a token. Crystal Reports, however, lets you embed drag and drop fields inside the report making it even easier. Not sure if there is a direct equivalent in the others.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch