This isn't a programming question....I hope...
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Yes, there are easy ways to create report. DevExpress is a lot better than Crystal Reports. Unf. the situation your described is not easy at all! You have created a fragile system that "works" and required institutional knowledge. 1) Is Word Installed 2) Is it the correct version or Work 3) Did Word Hang 4) The user changed all of the Book Marks and it doesn't work anymore 5) etc. The visual design of the reporting is easily able to be accomplished via reporting tools, SSRS, Crystal, xtraReports but has the benefit of being managed within the environment and through Source and Version management. A one-owner shop that never has to worry about someone else changing something is a lot different from designing a report in a company with 15,000 employees that rotates employees more often than I rotate my sheets. In all honesty, the toughest question to answer is: Can this be maintained. Not how many lines of code did it take? It is really hard to write up any appropriate thesis with a defense against Access and Word in the space of a comment but I have used Access and Word in the before the before and I don't know so that is probably defense enough.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
Unf. the situation your described is not easy at all!
For a small shop, it is very easy (I would never be so stupid as to give regular users access to the forms!), but I won't argue that it is inappropriate for something larger. You haven't really made me think that any of the pro reporting tools have all the power of Word, and how it can be integrated with Access, and that is my fundamental question. For instance, how easy is it to create reports that look like an informal letter? And maybe even incorporate background watermarks or other artwork as Word can do? Maybe the simplest example would be:
Dear Mr. Rogers,
We've noticed that you've failed to supply us with X, Y, and Z. We need X by Date1, and Y by Date2. The remaining item(s) don't have a specific due date, but we would appreciate receiving them at your earliest convenience...
Even with 'X,' 'Y,' and 'Z' coming from different databases, and changing the Mr/Mrs/Ms/Dr salutation, I can see doing this fairly easily with Word/Access. If you say "Yes, it is easy with the SQL report builders" to this specific example my curiosity will be sated! I've just never seen any examples of this online anywhere. Everything I've found shows tables being output, not something that has the nuance of the above. Thanks!
My website :: My book revealing the forgotten astronomy of our ancestors.
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Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
Unf. the situation your described is not easy at all!
For a small shop, it is very easy (I would never be so stupid as to give regular users access to the forms!), but I won't argue that it is inappropriate for something larger. You haven't really made me think that any of the pro reporting tools have all the power of Word, and how it can be integrated with Access, and that is my fundamental question. For instance, how easy is it to create reports that look like an informal letter? And maybe even incorporate background watermarks or other artwork as Word can do? Maybe the simplest example would be:
Dear Mr. Rogers,
We've noticed that you've failed to supply us with X, Y, and Z. We need X by Date1, and Y by Date2. The remaining item(s) don't have a specific due date, but we would appreciate receiving them at your earliest convenience...
Even with 'X,' 'Y,' and 'Z' coming from different databases, and changing the Mr/Mrs/Ms/Dr salutation, I can see doing this fairly easily with Word/Access. If you say "Yes, it is easy with the SQL report builders" to this specific example my curiosity will be sated! I've just never seen any examples of this online anywhere. Everything I've found shows tables being output, not something that has the nuance of the above. Thanks!
My website :: My book revealing the forgotten astronomy of our ancestors.
Fairly trivial. The technique I use in all of the tools is to embed a {0} through {1} so I can use the String.Format method, but it is just as easy to add a token. Crystal Reports, however, lets you embed drag and drop fields inside the report making it even easier. Not sure if there is a direct equivalent in the others.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
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I've just built myself a nice Access DB to keep track of my Gym workouts to keep me focused on the gym (always on an eye on progression not stagnation and boredom). During the build I sidetracked to build myself a little WinForms app to auto generate some Access VBA Class code rather than having to write it all out for another Access DB (which I had an idea about). Easy peasy, whacked it together in virtually no time at all...then it struck me...I have absolutely no idea about WPF! So, my new mission, which I accept, well sort of accept, sort of dread - is to learn WPF!!! (Which I will only be able to do in my 'spare' time outside of work, seeing as that I don't do C# in my day to day stuff). So, I've just bought "WPF 4.5 Unleashed" by Adam Nathan, and shall begin be working my way through that - with the ambition to turn my Access DB into a WPF application, and maybe to ditch the Access backend altogether replaced by something that I haven't decided yet. Anyone got any quick tips, gotchas, helpful hints, 'beware of' or any other words of wisdom before I begin my fraught and perilous journey?? :D
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
Hey Gigs... Start here: WPF/MVVM Quick Start Tutorial[^] I have done both Winforms and WPF and I have to say I like having a WPF codebase to maintain much more than a Winforms codebase to maintain. Databinding in WPF is a stellar experience. I've done one commercial product with it and it's a snap to maintain. WPF is very different though. If you haven't done a lot of winforms, you might be in better shape, not having your mind ruined by taking all the shortcuts winform so graciously allows.... I like this article by Lapthorn very much, because he's very deliberate about skipping the whiz-bang "unleashy" stuff and concentrating on what basics you need to know. Recommend you work through each example to see the evolution from wrong to right.... I did. Very informative hands on format. WPF is a paradigm shift from winforms for sure. The Hardest part for me was NOT looking for winforms equivilants in wpf. ("But it works like this in winforms waaah..." Just stop it already.) :-D
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Is there an easy way to create reports as powerfully as you can using Access/Word combo? Using stuff like the following it was very simple to create/open Word documents and get customized printouts quickly. Opening an existing Word document with bookmarks in it allowed the creation of customized letters/reports per individual which was quite impressive by my standards, and I've never seen anything to indicate it is that easy in SQL.
'Fill in the address block: Dim BMRange As Range Set BMRange = wordApp.ActiveDocument.Bookmarks("AddressBlock").Range BMRange.text = addressBlockUsing this approach in a Physical Therapy staffing company I made reports per therapist of all the documentation they needed, and work they needed to get done, and filled in anything that could be automated. It was an impressive single-button paper shooter-outer! Sorry for the programming question, but you opened up my curiosity again and it has bugged me for a while.
My website :: My book revealing the forgotten astronomy of our ancestors.
Gotta go with Ennis on this, Office and Access do work well together and can be tightly integrated but they are designed as productivity tools. They should never be used for anything other than personal use. They should absolutely NEVER be used in a multi user environment and certainly not in a serious development solution. The first time you run up against the incompatible version issue will stand as a harbinger of the future.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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Hey Gigs... Start here: WPF/MVVM Quick Start Tutorial[^] I have done both Winforms and WPF and I have to say I like having a WPF codebase to maintain much more than a Winforms codebase to maintain. Databinding in WPF is a stellar experience. I've done one commercial product with it and it's a snap to maintain. WPF is very different though. If you haven't done a lot of winforms, you might be in better shape, not having your mind ruined by taking all the shortcuts winform so graciously allows.... I like this article by Lapthorn very much, because he's very deliberate about skipping the whiz-bang "unleashy" stuff and concentrating on what basics you need to know. Recommend you work through each example to see the evolution from wrong to right.... I did. Very informative hands on format. WPF is a paradigm shift from winforms for sure. The Hardest part for me was NOT looking for winforms equivilants in wpf. ("But it works like this in winforms waaah..." Just stop it already.) :-D
Ok, nice one! thanks I will look through it. I'm mentally preparing myself to just forget everything I used to know, treat it as a brand new technology which is nothing like Winforms.... We will see how it goes! :)
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
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Dump Access. SQL Server is equally as easy once you get past the separation of Data Storage/Retrieval and UI and the change will immediately put you in a different class of developer. WPF sucks, Start with Win Forms to learn the fundamentals of saving and retrieving data so you are comfortable before you move to WPF and do everything Bass Ackwards.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
Oxford and Cambridge say "Aye!" :-D
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I would strongly recommend WPF: A Beginner's Guide - Part 1 of n[^] and the rest of the series, and in fact, any of Sacha's brilliant articles.
Ohh yes, I intend to use Sacha's articles as well! Thanks! :)
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
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Oxford and Cambridge say "Aye!" :-D
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So you would recommend he step back instead of forward? Learn an outdated tool that is no longer mainstream and he wouldn't find a job in instead of a modern more capable tool that is widely used? There is zero logic in this.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is
I like WPF - it definitely seemed like a step forward - but there is a question mark over its future that a lot of developers (myself included) feel uneasy about. It's summed up by Peter Bright in his article at over at Arstechnica: "The situation for developers using the WPF graphical framework was similar. There have been rumors that it has been cancelled and the team that worked on it disbanded, but there was never any positive confirmation from Microsoft and little or no light shed on the framework's future, if it even had one. Again, developers made the investment in WPF, and they were left in the lurch. The same is true for developers using the XNA game framework (which, unlike WPF, has been killed off) and arguably even .NET as a whole."
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I've just built myself a nice Access DB to keep track of my Gym workouts to keep me focused on the gym (always on an eye on progression not stagnation and boredom). During the build I sidetracked to build myself a little WinForms app to auto generate some Access VBA Class code rather than having to write it all out for another Access DB (which I had an idea about). Easy peasy, whacked it together in virtually no time at all...then it struck me...I have absolutely no idea about WPF! So, my new mission, which I accept, well sort of accept, sort of dread - is to learn WPF!!! (Which I will only be able to do in my 'spare' time outside of work, seeing as that I don't do C# in my day to day stuff). So, I've just bought "WPF 4.5 Unleashed" by Adam Nathan, and shall begin be working my way through that - with the ambition to turn my Access DB into a WPF application, and maybe to ditch the Access backend altogether replaced by something that I haven't decided yet. Anyone got any quick tips, gotchas, helpful hints, 'beware of' or any other words of wisdom before I begin my fraught and perilous journey?? :D
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
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I've just built myself a nice Access DB to keep track of my Gym workouts to keep me focused on the gym (always on an eye on progression not stagnation and boredom). During the build I sidetracked to build myself a little WinForms app to auto generate some Access VBA Class code rather than having to write it all out for another Access DB (which I had an idea about). Easy peasy, whacked it together in virtually no time at all...then it struck me...I have absolutely no idea about WPF! So, my new mission, which I accept, well sort of accept, sort of dread - is to learn WPF!!! (Which I will only be able to do in my 'spare' time outside of work, seeing as that I don't do C# in my day to day stuff). So, I've just bought "WPF 4.5 Unleashed" by Adam Nathan, and shall begin be working my way through that - with the ambition to turn my Access DB into a WPF application, and maybe to ditch the Access backend altogether replaced by something that I haven't decided yet. Anyone got any quick tips, gotchas, helpful hints, 'beware of' or any other words of wisdom before I begin my fraught and perilous journey?? :D
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
WPF is the front-end, the GUI. You don't have to have it to work with your access database. If you want to learn it, that's one thing, but you're talking apples & oranges here. Your back end code (the Access stuff) doesn't care if you use WinForms or WPF.
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WPF is the front-end, the GUI. You don't have to have it to work with your access database. If you want to learn it, that's one thing, but you're talking apples & oranges here. Your back end code (the Access stuff) doesn't care if you use WinForms or WPF.
Yes, thanks, I'm aware of that - its just an idea at the moment; a goal to focus on. :)
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
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Yes, thanks, I'm aware of that - its just an idea at the moment; a goal to focus on. :)
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
:) I spent a little time a few years ago playing with WPF and found it to be a real overkill for the types of stuff I write. I'm not so much into making pretty pictures as just presenting data which WinForms is fine for; it's consistent, mature and just plain works.
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:) I spent a little time a few years ago playing with WPF and found it to be a real overkill for the types of stuff I write. I'm not so much into making pretty pictures as just presenting data which WinForms is fine for; it's consistent, mature and just plain works.
Yeah - it does appear to be fairly large in scope! But, I can nob about with Winforms and I just thought that I should really start getting to grips with it - just for the fun of it. Winforms won;t be going away any time soon, but (at the moment at least) WPf is the future :~
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
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Yeah - it does appear to be fairly large in scope! But, I can nob about with Winforms and I just thought that I should really start getting to grips with it - just for the fun of it. Winforms won;t be going away any time soon, but (at the moment at least) WPf is the future :~
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
The thing I didn't care about with WPF was having to constantly deal with XAML, which is fine I guess but if I wanted to deal with an HTML type language I'd just write a web application. I just felt that doing that on the desktop when I had gotten used to a GUI designer was just too much work for what I was trying to accomplish. With WinForms most of my time is focused on the application itself (making things work, etc.) whereas with WPF I felt like I was spending an inordinate amount of time trying to get the GUI right. I mean, how many methods must I ingest into my head for presenting a grid of data, or a list of items to choose, etc? I'm not at-all against these technologies per-se you might just say I've finally settled down and decided to be an expert at a few with which I can solve business problems instead of constantly trying to keep up with all these different technologies. I've been at this 38 years and as far as the type of stuff I develop I can't tell you that all the presentation technologies they've come up with since WinForms would enhance my presentations in any meaningful way. Heck ... I could have completed my last project as a character-based DOS application and it would have served the needs of my client very well! Like you said, WinForms ain't going anywhere. The output generated by VS2008 (my preferred tool) runs on everything from Windows XP right on up to Windows 8.1 desktop. That's a pretty huge audience. I think I'll just focus on solving these business problems with technology I already have and leave off chasing the "latest" stuff all the time. I suspect I'll have enough work to do without having constantly to upgrade and spin my wheels.
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The thing I didn't care about with WPF was having to constantly deal with XAML, which is fine I guess but if I wanted to deal with an HTML type language I'd just write a web application. I just felt that doing that on the desktop when I had gotten used to a GUI designer was just too much work for what I was trying to accomplish. With WinForms most of my time is focused on the application itself (making things work, etc.) whereas with WPF I felt like I was spending an inordinate amount of time trying to get the GUI right. I mean, how many methods must I ingest into my head for presenting a grid of data, or a list of items to choose, etc? I'm not at-all against these technologies per-se you might just say I've finally settled down and decided to be an expert at a few with which I can solve business problems instead of constantly trying to keep up with all these different technologies. I've been at this 38 years and as far as the type of stuff I develop I can't tell you that all the presentation technologies they've come up with since WinForms would enhance my presentations in any meaningful way. Heck ... I could have completed my last project as a character-based DOS application and it would have served the needs of my client very well! Like you said, WinForms ain't going anywhere. The output generated by VS2008 (my preferred tool) runs on everything from Windows XP right on up to Windows 8.1 desktop. That's a pretty huge audience. I think I'll just focus on solving these business problems with technology I already have and leave off chasing the "latest" stuff all the time. I suspect I'll have enough work to do without having constantly to upgrade and spin my wheels.
:) Haha, yeah - I can image in 38 years you've seen quite a few new technologies come in and go out! Winforms is brilliant, I've got VS 2008 which is excellent, and I'm using VS 2013 Express for this WPF learning. The Winforms designer is superb - really feels like a polished bit of kit. I'm just starting with WPF, and the designer already doesn't feel as polished, but, I'm still learning, so I'll get better (with any luck!) Anyway, thanks for you input - I always like hearing opinions of more experienced people; always something to learn :)
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
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Good to know the British agree. Perhaps when they sober up they will tell us what they agree with? ;P
Once upon a time, there wsa a strike. A miner's strike. The leader was Arthur Scargill. He lost. A few years later, a comedy troupe made a film called 'Strike!', which was all about a fictional attempt by Hollywood to make a film about the strike. Arthur would be played by 'Al Pacino' who would insist on turning Scargill into a victorious hero. When Scargill rides a motorbike to parliament in a last ditch attempt for peace, he makes a 'common man' speach to the members. They all say 'Aye!' in American accents, except for the member for 'Oxford and Cambridge'(!) who has a plummy English accent as this might actually be English. It was a funny film. Look it up on You Tube. ;)
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I've just built myself a nice Access DB to keep track of my Gym workouts to keep me focused on the gym (always on an eye on progression not stagnation and boredom). During the build I sidetracked to build myself a little WinForms app to auto generate some Access VBA Class code rather than having to write it all out for another Access DB (which I had an idea about). Easy peasy, whacked it together in virtually no time at all...then it struck me...I have absolutely no idea about WPF! So, my new mission, which I accept, well sort of accept, sort of dread - is to learn WPF!!! (Which I will only be able to do in my 'spare' time outside of work, seeing as that I don't do C# in my day to day stuff). So, I've just bought "WPF 4.5 Unleashed" by Adam Nathan, and shall begin be working my way through that - with the ambition to turn my Access DB into a WPF application, and maybe to ditch the Access backend altogether replaced by something that I haven't decided yet. Anyone got any quick tips, gotchas, helpful hints, 'beware of' or any other words of wisdom before I begin my fraught and perilous journey?? :D
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
Embrace XML. Not just the idea of angle-bracket delimited text. Understand how namespaces (i.e. xmlns) work. Understand why some tags have a prefix. If you have the time, learn XML schema. THis might already be in your wheelhouse, but it never ceases to amaze me how many C#/VB.NET guys claim they know XML but then attack XAML and don't know why their XAML code says Some tag not found! I've been to user group meetings where the presenter is introducing XAML and he tries to go through what all those attributes in the root Window element mean and everyone is literally, "Can we skip this and start writing our app?" No, understand that first. My only other tip is that if it seems difficult to get what you want done in VS, try it in Blend.
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Embrace XML. Not just the idea of angle-bracket delimited text. Understand how namespaces (i.e. xmlns) work. Understand why some tags have a prefix. If you have the time, learn XML schema. THis might already be in your wheelhouse, but it never ceases to amaze me how many C#/VB.NET guys claim they know XML but then attack XAML and don't know why their XAML code says Some tag not found! I've been to user group meetings where the presenter is introducing XAML and he tries to go through what all those attributes in the root Window element mean and everyone is literally, "Can we skip this and start writing our app?" No, understand that first. My only other tip is that if it seems difficult to get what you want done in VS, try it in Blend.
Thanks ! Yeah I'm doing my best to get to grips with xaml as much as possible as it appears to be such a massive part of wpf, and as for blend, yeah, that'll be on my list as well!! :-)
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
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Thanks ! Yeah I'm doing my best to get to grips with xaml as much as possible as it appears to be such a massive part of wpf, and as for blend, yeah, that'll be on my list as well!! :-)
"Benjamin is nobody's friend. If Benjamin were an ice cream flavor, he'd be pralines and dick." ~ Garth Algar "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair
Remember: XML, then XAML. :)