Visual Basic needs more credit
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Seriously? You are using this is a reason to disparage case sensitivity? This same example goes for case insensitive languages.. all it takes is one programmer using 'width', while another uses something like 'wdth', and we have exactly the same issue. I've seen this so please don't say it isn't possible. Beginning programmers cease being beginners when they start looking at the bigger picture and trying to understand that things like this are possible. Which language they use is inconsequential to that understanding. The issue is one of rigor.. not some language feature. You'll have to try MUCH harder than this to be convincing. And note I have no bone to pick with VB. It has driven a lot of business application development and TOTALLY has its place. Its the 'new Cobol'.. another language much disparaged by many but quite useful in my opinion.
A requirement of programming for me is to use whole words, anyone writing wdth would be fired. Considering the use of full words the with block becomes extremely important for readability. Since the adoption of full words and with blocks we have dropped the use of comments, greatly increasing productivity. Even when we use C# because some of my own programmers have more experience in that one language, so even when we use it having to make sure a variable is typed correctly can hold up experienced C# programmers for lazy mistakes, that simply do not happen in VB. So yes seriously.
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Considering 3 people are doing the work of 30 people, with 5 code monkeys that have no skill, I would say this business model is working.
How long have you been running this way? How many bugs do you fix per week? Saying your business is working means nothing to me.. there are quality measures you either meet or you don't. I'll put it very directly: I've seen folks make money while treating their customers like dogs. And left those same customers with applications that barely worked. You can make money and still create completely useless buggy software. Financial success is important to you I'm sure.. your customers have different motivations..
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A requirement of programming for me is to use whole words, anyone writing wdth would be fired. Considering the use of full words the with block becomes extremely important for readability. Since the adoption of full words and with blocks we have dropped the use of comments, greatly increasing productivity. Even when we use C# because some of my own programmers have more experience in that one language, so even when we use it having to make sure a variable is typed correctly can hold up experienced C# programmers for lazy mistakes, that simply do not happen in VB. So yes seriously.
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When two people go back and forth, it's called a conversation.
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How long have you been running this way? How many bugs do you fix per week? Saying your business is working means nothing to me.. there are quality measures you either meet or you don't. I'll put it very directly: I've seen folks make money while treating their customers like dogs. And left those same customers with applications that barely worked. You can make money and still create completely useless buggy software. Financial success is important to you I'm sure.. your customers have different motivations..
Programs here are written and completed within three days. Up until this point the company has been focused on real estate software for Canadian Companies, 100s of Unidex apps will be released for Windows phone 8.1 when Windows Phone 8.1 is released to the public either this month or it looks like Windows Phone 8.1 won't be released till November.
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With operator
Having or not having a specific operator can hardly be an argumant in favor of any language. There are thousands of keywords other languages provides that VB doesn't have! Besides, Pascal also has
with. And I already told you that much in a different thread. :doh:GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
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Thanks for your opinion, do you have a diploma in sociology by any chance?
Far better: he's got common sense.
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
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When dealing with a database, sometimes there are bad records. I meant for these try catches to be this way, as I don't care at this point why there would be problems in the data, all other errors are handled.
You know, you could have avoided a whole lot of discussion just by adding a comment saying that. I too sometimes add error handling code that I know I don't really care about, just to make a point that I did consider the possibility of that error. And, of course, if someone later adds to the code, he may need to reassess if the error can really be ignored - if the (emty) error handling code is already there, then it's much less likely he'll forget to deal with it. :)
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
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This is only for displaying data. Apparently you want the user to wait for typos for each action, instead for a daily report of problems you are not god, you do not know every angle to program.
Colborne_Greg wrote:
Apparently you want the user to wait for typos for each action,
Apparently I'm talking against a wall and wasting my time. If you trash the users' database just tell them to ignore the error and move on.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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I do miss the with operator. I have cases where it could save hundreds of characters and make it way easier to read. Don't listen to the C# purists. :zzz:
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
In the time of autocompletion editors, less typing is no longer a valid argument.
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
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visual basic is easier for people with less skill
I agree. So if you're intent on hiring people with low skills, VB is a reasonable choice. Most hiring staff want people with high skills though...
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
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That's why visual basic is great. I don't need to hire anyone who thinks they are a programmer. Its a tool that is easy to train people and allows me to pay them next to nothing.
Colborne_Greg wrote:
allows me to pay them next to nothing
If you had written that from the beginning, I'm sure everone agreed. :-D
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
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I agree. So if you're intent on hiring people with low skills, VB is a reasonable choice. Most hiring staff want people with high skills though...
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
Do you know what its like in an agile environment with highly skilled programmers that all think they are the best and try to leave there mark on a program? Not only do they cost more, they wasted extra hours, and broke the conditions of the client. Most of the places that want high skills are getting over qualified people for simple tasks in a lot of cases, there is so mush wasted talent that could benefit from a team of code monkey's, these people carry out the thoughts of the skilled programmer. If skilled programmers came with code monkey's I would hire them ;)
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You know, you could have avoided a whole lot of discussion just by adding a comment saying that. I too sometimes add error handling code that I know I don't really care about, just to make a point that I did consider the possibility of that error. And, of course, if someone later adds to the code, he may need to reassess if the error can really be ignored - if the (emty) error handling code is already there, then it's much less likely he'll forget to deal with it. :)
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
The code was a quick attempt at a just works client. My laziness just so happened to spill over into this thread ;)
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Colborne_Greg wrote:
Apparently you want the user to wait for typos for each action,
Apparently I'm talking against a wall and wasting my time. If you trash the users' database just tell them to ignore the error and move on.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
I am using Unidex and not a database, Unidex does not have null issues.
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Having or not having a specific operator can hardly be an argumant in favor of any language. There are thousands of keywords other languages provides that VB doesn't have! Besides, Pascal also has
with. And I already told you that much in a different thread. :doh:GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
I always forget about pascal, a language I learned but never really wrote anything in.
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Do you know what its like in an agile environment with highly skilled programmers that all think they are the best and try to leave there mark on a program? Not only do they cost more, they wasted extra hours, and broke the conditions of the client. Most of the places that want high skills are getting over qualified people for simple tasks in a lot of cases, there is so mush wasted talent that could benefit from a team of code monkey's, these people carry out the thoughts of the skilled programmer. If skilled programmers came with code monkey's I would hire them ;)
It all depends on the kind of work at hand: I've been working with high skilled programmers for 30 years, and my experience is quite the opposite. The applications were all quite large and complex, or had highly innovative and complex functionality, or both. Of course if the job at hand is more mechanical in nature and doesn't require the coder to really think out of the box, then a skilled programmer won't be happy, and will quit, or not even apply to the job in the first place.
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
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The code was a quick attempt at a just works client. My laziness just so happened to spill over into this thread ;)
It's exactly that 'just works' mentality that needlessly causes hours and days of maintenance effort when it comes to figuring out what a buggy function does, or what it takes to adapt it to a new functionality without introducing regressions. If you care about the state of your program in 6, or even 2 months, then you should care about comments and think beyond 'just works'. Not saying or implying that this is your professional style of coding, but it is all that we see here, so don't be surprised if people react and respond accordingly.
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
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I always forget about pascal, a language I learned but never really wrote anything in.
That was just an aside. Every single object oriented language doesn't need and doesn't want a
withkeyword! If you need to perform a series of operations on a single object, then you write a method for that! You won't even need the introductory '.', and you can just call the method from different places without having to copy the original code (including the errors therein). That's a lot more elegant than your example, and far better readable because the implementation will be within the context of the object class, rather than in the context of some arbitrary function that just happens to use it! I do realize that VB has classes too - but that is all the more reason that it shouldn't even have awithstatement: it just leads to code that is harder to maintain than writing a class method. Have you never wondered why an old language like Pascal has it, but none of the newer ones? Not even the newer languages by Niklaus Wirth himself (Modula, Oberon) have it! If you must discuss the merits ofwith, shouldn't you instead ask why its inventor, Niklaus Wirth, and (almost) all other designers of modern programming languages abandoned it?GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
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I am using Unidex and not a database, Unidex does not have null issues.
When you're trying to access data from any source that is not in your application memory already, then you should consider the possibility that the data connection might get corrupted for unexpected reasons. Depending on how the connection is working, follow-up requests may clog the input queue and lead to the application blocking, which is just as inconvenient - or even more so - as an app crash! Not dealing with exceptions and at least trying to find out if it reoccurs is just a recipe for trouble. If nothing else, it's a security hole waiting to be exploited. At the very least you're potentially wasting a lot of time waiting for responses to data requests that never arrive. If the user wants to display 5000 data records, and your loop gets a 'connection timed out' exception every time, just how long do you think the user is happy to wait for a response?
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)