Visual Basic needs more credit
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When dealing with a database, sometimes there are bad records. I meant for these try catches to be this way, as I don't care at this point why there would be problems in the data, all other errors are handled.
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Heh? so you don't want your user to know to tell the DBA or YOU that something is wrong between the application and the database it uses? Hiding such things is asking for problems down the road. BIG problems.
It does not use a database.
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You didn't read my post? There are different portions of the IL set used by both languages.. its why they are different. This isn't subject to opinion, its stated fact. Seriously, don't take my word for it: The book is 'Expert .NET 2.0 IL Assembly Language'.. the author is Serge Lidin, HE IS THE DESIGNER OF THE IL LAYER. Most of the language uses very similar constructs.. but NOT ALL. Are you intentionally trolling here?
My original post. Yes not all or Visual basic would be C#.
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no
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My experience of non-programmers is like this: they are good at small things. Ask them for small programs that do simple things and you are golden. Ask them for anything requiring Systems Analysis and real rigor and you've got serious quality problems on your hands. Its not that you can't get it from untrained individuals.. only that it takes a LOT longer. And 'the hardware layer' is where systems programming lives, which is what I do.. 'cellphone era' is a reference to time, not computers. I really don't know what you are trying to say.. As to C# vs. VB and trainability.. nonsense. I've seen folks pick up both. And seriously: what do you have against programmers?
Considering 3 people are doing the work of 30 people, with 5 code monkeys that have no skill, I would say this business model is working.
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Seriously? You are using this is a reason to disparage case sensitivity? This same example goes for case insensitive languages.. all it takes is one programmer using 'width', while another uses something like 'wdth', and we have exactly the same issue. I've seen this so please don't say it isn't possible. Beginning programmers cease being beginners when they start looking at the bigger picture and trying to understand that things like this are possible. Which language they use is inconsequential to that understanding. The issue is one of rigor.. not some language feature. You'll have to try MUCH harder than this to be convincing. And note I have no bone to pick with VB. It has driven a lot of business application development and TOTALLY has its place. Its the 'new Cobol'.. another language much disparaged by many but quite useful in my opinion.
A requirement of programming for me is to use whole words, anyone writing wdth would be fired. Considering the use of full words the with block becomes extremely important for readability. Since the adoption of full words and with blocks we have dropped the use of comments, greatly increasing productivity. Even when we use C# because some of my own programmers have more experience in that one language, so even when we use it having to make sure a variable is typed correctly can hold up experienced C# programmers for lazy mistakes, that simply do not happen in VB. So yes seriously.
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Considering 3 people are doing the work of 30 people, with 5 code monkeys that have no skill, I would say this business model is working.
How long have you been running this way? How many bugs do you fix per week? Saying your business is working means nothing to me.. there are quality measures you either meet or you don't. I'll put it very directly: I've seen folks make money while treating their customers like dogs. And left those same customers with applications that barely worked. You can make money and still create completely useless buggy software. Financial success is important to you I'm sure.. your customers have different motivations..
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A requirement of programming for me is to use whole words, anyone writing wdth would be fired. Considering the use of full words the with block becomes extremely important for readability. Since the adoption of full words and with blocks we have dropped the use of comments, greatly increasing productivity. Even when we use C# because some of my own programmers have more experience in that one language, so even when we use it having to make sure a variable is typed correctly can hold up experienced C# programmers for lazy mistakes, that simply do not happen in VB. So yes seriously.
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When two people go back and forth, it's called a conversation.
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How long have you been running this way? How many bugs do you fix per week? Saying your business is working means nothing to me.. there are quality measures you either meet or you don't. I'll put it very directly: I've seen folks make money while treating their customers like dogs. And left those same customers with applications that barely worked. You can make money and still create completely useless buggy software. Financial success is important to you I'm sure.. your customers have different motivations..
Programs here are written and completed within three days. Up until this point the company has been focused on real estate software for Canadian Companies, 100s of Unidex apps will be released for Windows phone 8.1 when Windows Phone 8.1 is released to the public either this month or it looks like Windows Phone 8.1 won't be released till November.
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With operator
Having or not having a specific operator can hardly be an argumant in favor of any language. There are thousands of keywords other languages provides that VB doesn't have! Besides, Pascal also has
with. And I already told you that much in a different thread. :doh:GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
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Thanks for your opinion, do you have a diploma in sociology by any chance?
Far better: he's got common sense.
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
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When dealing with a database, sometimes there are bad records. I meant for these try catches to be this way, as I don't care at this point why there would be problems in the data, all other errors are handled.
You know, you could have avoided a whole lot of discussion just by adding a comment saying that. I too sometimes add error handling code that I know I don't really care about, just to make a point that I did consider the possibility of that error. And, of course, if someone later adds to the code, he may need to reassess if the error can really be ignored - if the (emty) error handling code is already there, then it's much less likely he'll forget to deal with it. :)
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
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This is only for displaying data. Apparently you want the user to wait for typos for each action, instead for a daily report of problems you are not god, you do not know every angle to program.
Colborne_Greg wrote:
Apparently you want the user to wait for typos for each action,
Apparently I'm talking against a wall and wasting my time. If you trash the users' database just tell them to ignore the error and move on.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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I do miss the with operator. I have cases where it could save hundreds of characters and make it way easier to read. Don't listen to the C# purists. :zzz:
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
In the time of autocompletion editors, less typing is no longer a valid argument.
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
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visual basic is easier for people with less skill
I agree. So if you're intent on hiring people with low skills, VB is a reasonable choice. Most hiring staff want people with high skills though...
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
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That's why visual basic is great. I don't need to hire anyone who thinks they are a programmer. Its a tool that is easy to train people and allows me to pay them next to nothing.
Colborne_Greg wrote:
allows me to pay them next to nothing
If you had written that from the beginning, I'm sure everone agreed. :-D
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
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I agree. So if you're intent on hiring people with low skills, VB is a reasonable choice. Most hiring staff want people with high skills though...
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
Do you know what its like in an agile environment with highly skilled programmers that all think they are the best and try to leave there mark on a program? Not only do they cost more, they wasted extra hours, and broke the conditions of the client. Most of the places that want high skills are getting over qualified people for simple tasks in a lot of cases, there is so mush wasted talent that could benefit from a team of code monkey's, these people carry out the thoughts of the skilled programmer. If skilled programmers came with code monkey's I would hire them ;)
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You know, you could have avoided a whole lot of discussion just by adding a comment saying that. I too sometimes add error handling code that I know I don't really care about, just to make a point that I did consider the possibility of that error. And, of course, if someone later adds to the code, he may need to reassess if the error can really be ignored - if the (emty) error handling code is already there, then it's much less likely he'll forget to deal with it. :)
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
The code was a quick attempt at a just works client. My laziness just so happened to spill over into this thread ;)