Windows 9
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If you didn't notice the article does not say longhorn is vista. thanks for playing.
Longhorn was the development code name, Vista the commercial name. (Whistler became XP, Blackcomb became Windows 7.) One reference: http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Windows/Pushing-Forward/[^]
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He also said it in the Microsoft virtual academy videos. The whole point of continuous roll outs from 8.1 - 8.9 is to keep the concept of windows 8 while advancing the system away from the desktop. If people would adapt windows 8 faster visual studio wouldn't have been so annoying.
What's happening with Visual Studio is independent from Windows 8. The problem is that by changing the major release name costs money where incremental updates are typically free. One point of continuous updates is to avoid this (which also has a huge impact on resellers, who usually require that a vendor rebuy or "flush" the supply when then a major version number is changed.) The other point of updates is to make it easier to "patch" a system up to the latest version.
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I don't care what you think. The dot net framework is a paradigm shift which happened in 2003, and metro is the dot net framework as an operating system and the desktop is nothing but the old code. Get over it.
Your enthusiasm for metro is great, but I think you're just missing the fact that metro targets a fairly narrow set of devices/apps. There are many scenarios where a touch-centric fullscreen store app is a great thing. But this environment doesn't have what it takes to replace everything. This is why metro isn't a paradigm shift, its simply a new avenue for creating apps which do work well in that limited context. Also, MS has confirmed the desktop is and will continue to be a key piece of the puzzle moving forward. So, no, the desktop isn't going anywhere and isn't for "old code", its for code which doesn't fit in the rather narrow definition of fullscreen touch-centric store apps :) Additionally it sounds like they'll be bringing the start menu back and allow running store apps in a window on the desktop. So the desktop is actually getting new focus and emphasis moving forward.
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Your enthusiasm for metro is great, but I think you're just missing the fact that metro targets a fairly narrow set of devices/apps. There are many scenarios where a touch-centric fullscreen store app is a great thing. But this environment doesn't have what it takes to replace everything. This is why metro isn't a paradigm shift, its simply a new avenue for creating apps which do work well in that limited context. Also, MS has confirmed the desktop is and will continue to be a key piece of the puzzle moving forward. So, no, the desktop isn't going anywhere and isn't for "old code", its for code which doesn't fit in the rather narrow definition of fullscreen touch-centric store apps :) Additionally it sounds like they'll be bringing the start menu back and allow running store apps in a window on the desktop. So the desktop is actually getting new focus and emphasis moving forward.
It will be a key piece in windows 8. Your opinion on the paradigm that did happen means nothing. The .NET Language Paradigm[^]
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What's happening with Visual Studio is independent from Windows 8. The problem is that by changing the major release name costs money where incremental updates are typically free. One point of continuous updates is to avoid this (which also has a huge impact on resellers, who usually require that a vendor rebuy or "flush" the supply when then a major version number is changed.) The other point of updates is to make it easier to "patch" a system up to the latest version.
Windows 8 is fueling the changes to visual studio as windows 8 is the .net framework as an operating system, the code for visual studio and windows 8 are the exact same.
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Longhorn was the development code name, Vista the commercial name. (Whistler became XP, Blackcomb became Windows 7.) One reference: http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Windows/Pushing-Forward/[^]
Longhorn is an incomplete operating system. Vista takes Longhorn and turns it into an operating system but vista is not longhorn, its an attempt to sell the project. Get over yourself.
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Windows 8 is fueling the changes to visual studio as windows 8 is the .net framework as an operating system, the code for visual studio and windows 8 are the exact same.
Windows 8 is NOT "the .net framework as an operating system". I don't know where you get your information. Windows 8 RT requires you write user applications in .NET, but .NET is not the operating system. Having a Visual Studio 2012, 2013 and 2014 are about marketing, not engineering. It seems you never had a question, but are simply arguing for the sake of hearing yourself. (And it seems to have not occurred to you that many of us are well read on the history and inner workings of Windows and know people, including the actual engineers, who work on it at Microsoft.)
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Longhorn is an incomplete operating system. Vista takes Longhorn and turns it into an operating system but vista is not longhorn, its an attempt to sell the project. Get over yourself.
Colborne_Greg wrote:
Get over yourself.
Why are you being so rude and confrontational? You are not the only person who knows someone who works at Microsoft or knows the history of operating systems. The fact is that Longhorn was the code name for the release that was scheduled between Whistler and Blackcomb. Whoever told you otherwise has no idea what they are talking about.
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It will be a key piece in windows 8. Your opinion on the paradigm that did happen means nothing. The .NET Language Paradigm[^]
Colborne_Greg wrote:
It will be a key piece in windows 8.
Yes, the desktop is a key piece in Windows 8. The metro start screen with its store apps is sort of a parallel environment. They're both there and they fill unique roles. But to say that metro replaces desktop or that there's a shift from desktop TO metro misses the fact that metro doesn't do everything needed by desktop apps and provides a much more narrow focus. If rumors are true, the desktop will be getting increased emphasis in Windows 9.
Colborne_Greg wrote:
Your opinion on the paradigm that did happen means nothing.
You sound very defensive regarding your position. Why did you post in the lounge if you thought any other opinion had no meaning? I'm beginning to think I've been feeding the troll :)
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Colborne_Greg wrote:
Get over yourself.
Why are you being so rude and confrontational? You are not the only person who knows someone who works at Microsoft or knows the history of operating systems. The fact is that Longhorn was the code name for the release that was scheduled between Whistler and Blackcomb. Whoever told you otherwise has no idea what they are talking about.
I never said that it wasn't a codename, what I am saying is that it is different from vista. How do I know this because I was trained internally by Microsoft in 2002-2004 on dot net 1.1 and its attempt to turn it into an operating system. Longhorn was an operating system used by people, other code name projects only went as far as beta testing.
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Colborne_Greg wrote:
It will be a key piece in windows 8.
Yes, the desktop is a key piece in Windows 8. The metro start screen with its store apps is sort of a parallel environment. They're both there and they fill unique roles. But to say that metro replaces desktop or that there's a shift from desktop TO metro misses the fact that metro doesn't do everything needed by desktop apps and provides a much more narrow focus. If rumors are true, the desktop will be getting increased emphasis in Windows 9.
Colborne_Greg wrote:
Your opinion on the paradigm that did happen means nothing.
You sound very defensive regarding your position. Why did you post in the lounge if you thought any other opinion had no meaning? I'm beginning to think I've been feeding the troll :)
The desktop is code based on 1960s technology, the only reason people love it is the fact is has history, its a dinosaur and we only have to wait for the world to catch up - it will be gone because it can not advance.
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Windows 8 is NOT "the .net framework as an operating system". I don't know where you get your information. Windows 8 RT requires you write user applications in .NET, but .NET is not the operating system. Having a Visual Studio 2012, 2013 and 2014 are about marketing, not engineering. It seems you never had a question, but are simply arguing for the sake of hearing yourself. (And it seems to have not occurred to you that many of us are well read on the history and inner workings of Windows and know people, including the actual engineers, who work on it at Microsoft.)
Windows 8 is the .net framework, nothing you say is going to change that.
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The desktop is code based on 1960s technology, the only reason people love it is the fact is has history, its a dinosaur and we only have to wait for the world to catch up - it will be gone because it can not advance.
I've been using Windows since 3.1 and the desktop has advanced significantly since then. So I believe its incorrect to say that the desktop environment can not advance, since it has done just that. I get that you're enthusiastic for a new metro environment, the problem is just that the new environment doesn't do everything needed. Maybe someday something will be able to replace the desktop, but I think metro isn't it at least not in its current state. That doesn't mean it can't do a great job for what its designed for -- full screen touch-centric store apps. But its not really a replacement for the desktop.
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I've been using Windows since 3.1 and the desktop has advanced significantly since then. So I believe its incorrect to say that the desktop environment can not advance, since it has done just that. I get that you're enthusiastic for a new metro environment, the problem is just that the new environment doesn't do everything needed. Maybe someday something will be able to replace the desktop, but I think metro isn't it at least not in its current state. That doesn't mean it can't do a great job for what its designed for -- full screen touch-centric store apps. But its not really a replacement for the desktop.
Research the 16 bit offset. The desktop has it. Metro does not. This is the paradigm shift. People can believe in god - but that doesn't make it true.
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Research the 16 bit offset. The desktop has it. Metro does not. This is the paradigm shift. People can believe in god - but that doesn't make it true.
I'm not following you. Perhaps something more concrete to explain the point you're trying to make would help.
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I'm not following you. Perhaps something more concrete to explain the point you're trying to make would help.
The 16-bit segment selector in the segment register is interpreted as the most significant 16 bits of a linear 20-bit address, called a segment address. This is in every 32 bit application, including the desktop, 64 bit models use a flat memory model, as long as the operating system has the desktop and compatibility for 32 bit apps it will have this offset problem. The .net framework removed the problem in 2003 and is the paradigm shift I am referring to. Windows 8 is the only modern OS without this problem, apple has it and so does android.
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The 16-bit segment selector in the segment register is interpreted as the most significant 16 bits of a linear 20-bit address, called a segment address. This is in every 32 bit application, including the desktop, 64 bit models use a flat memory model, as long as the operating system has the desktop and compatibility for 32 bit apps it will have this offset problem. The .net framework removed the problem in 2003 and is the paradigm shift I am referring to. Windows 8 is the only modern OS without this problem, apple has it and so does android.
Colborne_Greg wrote:
as long as the operating system has the desktop and compatibility for 32 bit apps it will have this offset problem.
Colborne_Greg wrote:
Windows 8 is the only modern OS without this problem
Windows 8 has the desktop and compatibility for 32 bit code. Backwards compatibility with 32-bit code is a big part of the amd64 design and supported by 64-bit Windows including Windows 8. Having said that, 64- vs. 32-bit and backwards compatibility for 32-bit is a very different discussion than what you started with, namely to indicate that metro somehow replaces desktop and desktop is only for "old code". Seems like two completely different topics :)
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I don't care if you purchase it
I couldn't care less that you don't care. Unless you're an illiterate American, of course, in which case I could care less.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Said the dinosaur
Stomp. Stomp.
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Colborne_Greg wrote:
as long as the operating system has the desktop and compatibility for 32 bit apps it will have this offset problem.
Colborne_Greg wrote:
Windows 8 is the only modern OS without this problem
Windows 8 has the desktop and compatibility for 32 bit code. Backwards compatibility with 32-bit code is a big part of the amd64 design and supported by 64-bit Windows including Windows 8. Having said that, 64- vs. 32-bit and backwards compatibility for 32-bit is a very different discussion than what you started with, namely to indicate that metro somehow replaces desktop and desktop is only for "old code". Seems like two completely different topics :)
Do we live in a 64 bit world? We don't live in a world where apps are made correctly to use 64 bits, and this compatibility which metro does not have is why the desktop is there and is the only reason. AMD is hardware as is Intel, otherwise operating systems like metro would not have a base line to advance from. The desktop can not utilize 64 bits ever as the segment problem is in the heart of every programming language for the desktop.