Windows 8.1
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I have certainly come to had Windows 8. I am using windows 8.1 and what I like is what is like Windows 7. Just not the right OS for doing multiple things at once. I have always felt that Microsoft has failed because they refuse to create and truly effective UI group, and Windows 8 is another example. Hard to believe that the shortcomings of Windows 8 for laptop and desktop use would not be absolutely obvious. Would think it would also be poor for anyone one with a large pad since it would have enough screen real estate to be able to work with multiple applications at once. In the mean time see so many cases where Microsoft could have done better at increasing the capabilities of the programming environment. Windows does not work well with either Visual Studio managed code applications or the Web, and now there is no supported environment for creating desktop applications, now that WPF is basically unsupported. Microsoft senior management has been so stupid.
I guess I must be brain dead. I haven't found "the shortcomings of Windows 8 for laptop and desktop use". I use Windows 8.1 on at least 2 large tablets, as well as my normal desktop PC. My development environment (VS) runs fine and all of the applications I write are for desktop use. I typically have 5 or 6 applications open at the same time. The stuff I develop on my Win7 machines run just fine on Win8 and 8.1 and vice versa. Other than selecting the Windows button instead of the "Start" menu, I haven't seen much real difference.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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I have certainly come to had Windows 8. I am using windows 8.1 and what I like is what is like Windows 7. Just not the right OS for doing multiple things at once. I have always felt that Microsoft has failed because they refuse to create and truly effective UI group, and Windows 8 is another example. Hard to believe that the shortcomings of Windows 8 for laptop and desktop use would not be absolutely obvious. Would think it would also be poor for anyone one with a large pad since it would have enough screen real estate to be able to work with multiple applications at once. In the mean time see so many cases where Microsoft could have done better at increasing the capabilities of the programming environment. Windows does not work well with either Visual Studio managed code applications or the Web, and now there is no supported environment for creating desktop applications, now that WPF is basically unsupported. Microsoft senior management has been so stupid.
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I guess I must be brain dead. I haven't found "the shortcomings of Windows 8 for laptop and desktop use". I use Windows 8.1 on at least 2 large tablets, as well as my normal desktop PC. My development environment (VS) runs fine and all of the applications I write are for desktop use. I typically have 5 or 6 applications open at the same time. The stuff I develop on my Win7 machines run just fine on Win8 and 8.1 and vice versa. Other than selecting the Windows button instead of the "Start" menu, I haven't seen much real difference.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
Walt Fair, Jr. wrote:
I guess I must be brain dead. I haven't found "the shortcomings of Windows 8 for laptop and desktop use".
Other than selecting the Windows button instead of the "Start" menu, I haven't seen much real difference.:thumbsup: Me too. I can't understand what the complaining is all about. Yes it is a different interface and you need to do things a little differently, get over it. We do not work on Windows 3.11 anymore. The world has moved on.
Walt Fair, Jr. wrote:
I use Windows 8.1 on at least 2 large tablets, as well as my normal desktop PC. My development environment (VS) runs fine and all of the applications I write are for desktop use. I typically have 5 or 6 applications open at the same time. The stuff I develop on my Win7 machines run just fine on Win8 and 8.1 and vice versa.
For me it is a laptop (Win8) and a desktop (Win8.1) and they both work fine. I will admit it took me about a week to get used to the new interface when Windows 8 first came out, but after that I didn't find that it impeded my work in any way. I took the view that this was the new environment and I needed to learn it to be able to use it. I needed to adapt if was going to be productive so I took the time to learn it rather than just complain that it was different then the Windows 7 environment with which I was used to working. At first I kept using the usual desktop applications but lately I have grown used to the metro (I know I am not supposed to call it that) style applications and have been changing my preference to them where a good modern application exists to replace the old desktop application I had been using. The ship is leaving the dock and you are either on it or you are left behind.
**_Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong._**
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
I have certainly come to had Windows 8. I am using windows 8.1 and what I like is what is like Windows 7. Just not the right OS for doing multiple things at once. I have always felt that Microsoft has failed because they refuse to create and truly effective UI group, and Windows 8 is another example. Hard to believe that the shortcomings of Windows 8 for laptop and desktop use would not be absolutely obvious. Would think it would also be poor for anyone one with a large pad since it would have enough screen real estate to be able to work with multiple applications at once. In the mean time see so many cases where Microsoft could have done better at increasing the capabilities of the programming environment. Windows does not work well with either Visual Studio managed code applications or the Web, and now there is no supported environment for creating desktop applications, now that WPF is basically unsupported. Microsoft senior management has been so stupid.
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I have certainly come to had Windows 8. I am using windows 8.1 and what I like is what is like Windows 7. Just not the right OS for doing multiple things at once. I have always felt that Microsoft has failed because they refuse to create and truly effective UI group, and Windows 8 is another example. Hard to believe that the shortcomings of Windows 8 for laptop and desktop use would not be absolutely obvious. Would think it would also be poor for anyone one with a large pad since it would have enough screen real estate to be able to work with multiple applications at once. In the mean time see so many cases where Microsoft could have done better at increasing the capabilities of the programming environment. Windows does not work well with either Visual Studio managed code applications or the Web, and now there is no supported environment for creating desktop applications, now that WPF is basically unsupported. Microsoft senior management has been so stupid.
Clifford Nelson wrote:
I have certainly come to had Windows 8.
I don't know what that means you have come to had Windows 8?
Clifford Nelson wrote:
I am using windows 8.1 and what I like is what is like Windows 7.
Windows 7 is the new XP.
Clifford Nelson wrote:
Just not the right OS for doing multiple things at once. I have always felt that Microsoft has failed because they refuse to create and truly effective UI group, and Windows 8 is another example ... Would think it would also be poor for anyone one with a large pad since it would have enough screen real estate to be able to work with multiple applications at once. In the mean time see so many cases where Microsoft could have done better at increasing the capabilities of the programming environment.
So you never learned to snap windows left and right to use two applications on the same screen. That works just like Windows 7! With 2 screens that means I can work on 4 applications at once without having overly small displays. Of course Windows always allowed you to adjust the size of a window to be able to see more than one at a time, but being able to snap a window to either full screen of half screen makes it easier to do.
Clifford Nelson wrote:
Windows does not work well with either Visual Studio managed code applications or the Web,
I don't agree with that. I am using Windows 8.1 to type this and have no problem. I also have managed code applications I wrote a while back running with no problem. What problems you are having are related to your attitude about Windows 8 and not any shortcoming with the OS.
Clifford Nelson wrote:
now there is no supported environment for creating desktop applications, now that WPF is basically unsupported.
You really should be thinking about moving on. I switched to web development over desktop applications about 12 years ago because that is the way things are going and have not looked back since. The only desktop applications I develop are (usually small) utility applications I need to execute on a schedule to update some background resource; database, XML manifest, etc. They usually run in the middle of the night at a time when they will not interfere with scheduled backups. I use WPF for those but
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I have certainly come to had Windows 8. I am using windows 8.1 and what I like is what is like Windows 7. Just not the right OS for doing multiple things at once. I have always felt that Microsoft has failed because they refuse to create and truly effective UI group, and Windows 8 is another example. Hard to believe that the shortcomings of Windows 8 for laptop and desktop use would not be absolutely obvious. Would think it would also be poor for anyone one with a large pad since it would have enough screen real estate to be able to work with multiple applications at once. In the mean time see so many cases where Microsoft could have done better at increasing the capabilities of the programming environment. Windows does not work well with either Visual Studio managed code applications or the Web, and now there is no supported environment for creating desktop applications, now that WPF is basically unsupported. Microsoft senior management has been so stupid.
I'm not sure I'm following you here. You can do anything on 8.1 that you can do with any version of Windows. If you don't like Metro (like I don't) simply don't use it. The desktop system (still really central to the whole thing) is just as functional as it always was. Paint me confused. What's the problem?
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Clifford Nelson wrote:
I have certainly come to had Windows 8.
I don't know what that means you have come to had Windows 8?
Clifford Nelson wrote:
I am using windows 8.1 and what I like is what is like Windows 7.
Windows 7 is the new XP.
Clifford Nelson wrote:
Just not the right OS for doing multiple things at once. I have always felt that Microsoft has failed because they refuse to create and truly effective UI group, and Windows 8 is another example ... Would think it would also be poor for anyone one with a large pad since it would have enough screen real estate to be able to work with multiple applications at once. In the mean time see so many cases where Microsoft could have done better at increasing the capabilities of the programming environment.
So you never learned to snap windows left and right to use two applications on the same screen. That works just like Windows 7! With 2 screens that means I can work on 4 applications at once without having overly small displays. Of course Windows always allowed you to adjust the size of a window to be able to see more than one at a time, but being able to snap a window to either full screen of half screen makes it easier to do.
Clifford Nelson wrote:
Windows does not work well with either Visual Studio managed code applications or the Web,
I don't agree with that. I am using Windows 8.1 to type this and have no problem. I also have managed code applications I wrote a while back running with no problem. What problems you are having are related to your attitude about Windows 8 and not any shortcoming with the OS.
Clifford Nelson wrote:
now there is no supported environment for creating desktop applications, now that WPF is basically unsupported.
You really should be thinking about moving on. I switched to web development over desktop applications about 12 years ago because that is the way things are going and have not looked back since. The only desktop applications I develop are (usually small) utility applications I need to execute on a schedule to update some background resource; database, XML manifest, etc. They usually run in the middle of the night at a time when they will not interfere with scheduled backups. I use WPF for those but
JimmyRopes wrote:
I switched to web development over desktop applications about 12 years ago because that is the way things are going and have not looked back since.
Even if you are still developing desktop (like I am) Microsoft has only vindicated that form of development. Notice they still fully support it in VS2013. I write customized systems for desktop use. The desktop ain't going anywhere. You may have also noticed that in more recent versions of the thing they're driving the product to be more desktop-centric rather than less. I think even Microsoft has realized that they made a massive mistake trying to supress the desktop.
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JimmyRopes wrote:
I switched to web development over desktop applications about 12 years ago because that is the way things are going and have not looked back since.
Even if you are still developing desktop (like I am) Microsoft has only vindicated that form of development. Notice they still fully support it in VS2013. I write customized systems for desktop use. The desktop ain't going anywhere. You may have also noticed that in more recent versions of the thing they're driving the product to be more desktop-centric rather than less. I think even Microsoft has realized that they made a massive mistake trying to supress the desktop.
I think that eventually all applications will use a browser as a presentation format. Desktop applications are starting to have the look and feel of a legacy application.
**_Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong._**
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
I have certainly come to had Windows 8. I am using windows 8.1 and what I like is what is like Windows 7. Just not the right OS for doing multiple things at once. I have always felt that Microsoft has failed because they refuse to create and truly effective UI group, and Windows 8 is another example. Hard to believe that the shortcomings of Windows 8 for laptop and desktop use would not be absolutely obvious. Would think it would also be poor for anyone one with a large pad since it would have enough screen real estate to be able to work with multiple applications at once. In the mean time see so many cases where Microsoft could have done better at increasing the capabilities of the programming environment. Windows does not work well with either Visual Studio managed code applications or the Web, and now there is no supported environment for creating desktop applications, now that WPF is basically unsupported. Microsoft senior management has been so stupid.
copy paste from apple fainboi forum :confused: - man have you ever USED Win 8.1? Every sentence is crap :thumbsdown:
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I think that eventually all applications will use a browser as a presentation format. Desktop applications are starting to have the look and feel of a legacy application.
**_Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong._**
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesWasn't Java supposedly the answer to the question of how to write cross-platform applications? While the idea of cross platform languages/frameworks is a good idea, until the manufacturers of all/most hardware create browser friendly enabled APIs I don't see the "any platform easy programming" idea taking shape in reality. Plus letting a browser control hardware is in and of itself full of security risks.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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Wasn't Java supposedly the answer to the question of how to write cross-platform applications? While the idea of cross platform languages/frameworks is a good idea, until the manufacturers of all/most hardware create browser friendly enabled APIs I don't see the "any platform easy programming" idea taking shape in reality. Plus letting a browser control hardware is in and of itself full of security risks.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
GuyThiebaut wrote:
Wasn't Java supposedly the answer to the question of how to write cross-platform applications?
Right! :laugh:
**_Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong._**
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Wasn't Java supposedly the answer to the question of how to write cross-platform applications? While the idea of cross platform languages/frameworks is a good idea, until the manufacturers of all/most hardware create browser friendly enabled APIs I don't see the "any platform easy programming" idea taking shape in reality. Plus letting a browser control hardware is in and of itself full of security risks.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
GuyThiebaut wrote:
Wasn't Java supposedly the answer to the question of how to write cross-platform applications?
Right! :laugh:
GuyThiebaut wrote:
While the idea of cross platform languages/frameworks is a good idea, until the manufacturers of all/most hardware create browser friendly enabled APIs I don't see the "any platform easy programming" idea taking shape in reality.
Have you heard about JavaScript? :~
GuyThiebaut wrote:
While the idea of cross platform languages/frameworks is a good idea, until the manufacturers of all/most hardware create browser friendly enabled APIs I don't see the "any platform easy programming" idea taking shape in reality.
Have you heard about JavaScript?
GuyThiebaut wrote:
Plus letting a browser control hardware is in and of itself full of security risks.
Only if the control is from a foreign web site. If the browser is deployed as a thin client on the machine it will be just a GUI for a locally running service. The operations running will depend on the service's authorization on the local machine. I don't see anything wrong with that.
**_Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong._**
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
copy paste from apple fainboi forum :confused: - man have you ever USED Win 8.1? Every sentence is crap :thumbsdown:
johannesnestler wrote:
copy paste from apple fainboi forum :confused: - man have you ever USED Win 8.1? Every sentence is crap
you are the current asshole here. You are trying to answer a serious discussion with shite. You are the fanboy!
**_Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong._**
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
GuyThiebaut wrote:
Wasn't Java supposedly the answer to the question of how to write cross-platform applications?
Right! :laugh:
GuyThiebaut wrote:
While the idea of cross platform languages/frameworks is a good idea, until the manufacturers of all/most hardware create browser friendly enabled APIs I don't see the "any platform easy programming" idea taking shape in reality.
Have you heard about JavaScript? :~
GuyThiebaut wrote:
While the idea of cross platform languages/frameworks is a good idea, until the manufacturers of all/most hardware create browser friendly enabled APIs I don't see the "any platform easy programming" idea taking shape in reality.
Have you heard about JavaScript?
GuyThiebaut wrote:
Plus letting a browser control hardware is in and of itself full of security risks.
Only if the control is from a foreign web site. If the browser is deployed as a thin client on the machine it will be just a GUI for a locally running service. The operations running will depend on the service's authorization on the local machine. I don't see anything wrong with that.
**_Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong._**
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesJimmyRopes wrote:
thin client on the machine it will be just a GUI for a locally running service
In which case wouldn't the service need to be written for a specific architecture?
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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JimmyRopes wrote:
thin client on the machine it will be just a GUI for a locally running service
In which case wouldn't the service need to be written for a specific architecture?
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
GuyThiebaut wrote:
GuyThiebaut wrote: Plus letting a browser control hardware is in and of itself full of security risks. Only if the control is from a foreign web site. If the browser is deployed as a thin client on the machine it will be just a GUI for a locally running service. The operations running will depend on the service's authorization on the local machine.
GuyThiebaut wrote:
JimmyRopes wrote:
thin client on the machine it will be just a GUI for a locally running service
In which case wouldn't the service need to be written for a specific architecture?
Yes in that specific case it would be written for a specific architecture. In a general case where you are not targeting a specific architecture, then the application can be used on any architecture, which is more the general case. The point is that the browser can be used for the specific case or the general case. It would just be a presentation format.
**_Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong._**
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
I have certainly come to had Windows 8. I am using windows 8.1 and what I like is what is like Windows 7. Just not the right OS for doing multiple things at once. I have always felt that Microsoft has failed because they refuse to create and truly effective UI group, and Windows 8 is another example. Hard to believe that the shortcomings of Windows 8 for laptop and desktop use would not be absolutely obvious. Would think it would also be poor for anyone one with a large pad since it would have enough screen real estate to be able to work with multiple applications at once. In the mean time see so many cases where Microsoft could have done better at increasing the capabilities of the programming environment. Windows does not work well with either Visual Studio managed code applications or the Web, and now there is no supported environment for creating desktop applications, now that WPF is basically unsupported. Microsoft senior management has been so stupid.
The interface is not as different as it may seem. Sure, there's the store apps and the fullscreen app environment, but there's also the regular desktop environment. You can even set an option to boot directly to desktop. Then you pin your most recently used stuff to the task bar and the interface is basically Windows 7. Sure, the full screen app store world is there, but you're not forced to use it.
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I'm not sure I'm following you here. You can do anything on 8.1 that you can do with any version of Windows. If you don't like Metro (like I don't) simply don't use it. The desktop system (still really central to the whole thing) is just as functional as it always was. Paint me confused. What's the problem?
CodeBubba wrote:
I'm not sure I'm following you here. You can do anything on 8.1 that you can do with any version of Windows.
Yes. You can. But it takes longer now. In terms of more mouse clicks/key press/screen swipes. Try performing the following actions 1) take a screenshot of this page and send the image by mail to some one. 2) add up figures on a web page using the calculator. And that charms bar or what ever they call it is downright annoying. It pops out when it's not required and does not when you need it.
Und wenn du lange in einen abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein - Friedrich Nietzsche
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johannesnestler wrote:
copy paste from apple fainboi forum :confused: - man have you ever USED Win 8.1? Every sentence is crap
you are the current asshole here. You are trying to answer a serious discussion with shite. You are the fanboy!
**_Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong._**
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
I have certainly come to had Windows 8. I am using windows 8.1 and what I like is what is like Windows 7. Just not the right OS for doing multiple things at once. I have always felt that Microsoft has failed because they refuse to create and truly effective UI group, and Windows 8 is another example. Hard to believe that the shortcomings of Windows 8 for laptop and desktop use would not be absolutely obvious. Would think it would also be poor for anyone one with a large pad since it would have enough screen real estate to be able to work with multiple applications at once. In the mean time see so many cases where Microsoft could have done better at increasing the capabilities of the programming environment. Windows does not work well with either Visual Studio managed code applications or the Web, and now there is no supported environment for creating desktop applications, now that WPF is basically unsupported. Microsoft senior management has been so stupid.
Sorry to be a hater but everything you said is basically rubbish. Every single valuable thing in Win7 is in Win8 PLUS more. There is no downside or change in Win8 that somehow magically makes multi-tasking less effective, not playing well with Visual Studio etc. The only thing that people "think" they have a complaint about is the Metro UI and apps, but that is mainly aimed for casual and tablet use; NOT to replace your main workstation/production/development environment (blabla..) To add: I have 3 Win 8.1 devices at home (2 gaming/development PCs, 1 laptop) Dual boot Win8.1 and Win7 at work. Win7 is on here because I'm forced to by the IT admins, but much of my real testing is on Win8 because I need Virtual Machines, and Win8s Hyper-V is significantly more awesome than most others like virtualbox and VMware.
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Walt Fair, Jr. wrote:
I guess I must be brain dead. I haven't found "the shortcomings of Windows 8 for laptop and desktop use".
Other than selecting the Windows button instead of the "Start" menu, I haven't seen much real difference.:thumbsup: Me too. I can't understand what the complaining is all about. Yes it is a different interface and you need to do things a little differently, get over it. We do not work on Windows 3.11 anymore. The world has moved on.
Walt Fair, Jr. wrote:
I use Windows 8.1 on at least 2 large tablets, as well as my normal desktop PC. My development environment (VS) runs fine and all of the applications I write are for desktop use. I typically have 5 or 6 applications open at the same time. The stuff I develop on my Win7 machines run just fine on Win8 and 8.1 and vice versa.
For me it is a laptop (Win8) and a desktop (Win8.1) and they both work fine. I will admit it took me about a week to get used to the new interface when Windows 8 first came out, but after that I didn't find that it impeded my work in any way. I took the view that this was the new environment and I needed to learn it to be able to use it. I needed to adapt if was going to be productive so I took the time to learn it rather than just complain that it was different then the Windows 7 environment with which I was used to working. At first I kept using the usual desktop applications but lately I have grown used to the metro (I know I am not supposed to call it that) style applications and have been changing my preference to them where a good modern application exists to replace the old desktop application I had been using. The ship is leaving the dock and you are either on it or you are left behind.
**_Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong._**
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesI've used W8 for more than a year on my non-touch-based Ultrabook, and find it a pain to use. The OP is right Yes it's only small things, and yes you get used to it. But no, I still don't like it, and there's so many small things that they add up to quite a heap of annoyance! To make a point: I never missed the Start Menu, which so many people point out to be one of the bigger issues. There are much more annoying changes that blatantly ignore the needs of a typical desktop user: 1. Lack of discoverability 1.1 Main functionality missing I don't mind if they 'moved my cheese'. But I do mind that W8 keeps hiding lots of functionality and settings without good reason: why do I need to move around the mouse pointer all over the screen just to see the buttons that provide the main functionality? I have a full HD screen on my Ultrabook, but there's no way to make the main function buttons always visible? WTF?:confused: 1.2 Inane Settings Dialogs I've desperately tried to figure out how to properly set up my Ultrabooks energy settings so I can properly use it while commuting. To date, I've found no less than 4 (Four!) different dialogs that contain relevant settings with some available across two or more dialogs but some only in one place - so I really need to know about all four just to set up everything properly. I've found that it helps to have them all open at the same time, because changes in one place may affect settings in another! But it gets even worse: I've found Windows update to repeatedly reset my energy settings to the default! :mad: 1.3 Inane 'flat' design In many dialogs and even on the desktop (e. g. Charm :doh: bars), simple lablels are indistinguishable from actionable GUI elements (I will not call them buttons, because they aren't buttons by any definition!). You have to mouse-over just to recognize whether or not there's a command hidden under! :thumbsdown: 2. Inane Windows Update policies As pointed out above in 1.2, there's reason to modify Update settings. However, those were regularly being reset together with the rest of my system settings :omg: I've spent months to find the right settings to finally prevent Windows from breaking my system every month X| Even more inane - or I might say catastrophically stupid - was that automatic forced update after I got a battery low warning! Needless to say, the system powered down in the middle of an update, while I was commuting, with no power connector near. It took me more than an hour to fix that mess aga
