Windows 8.1
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Where to start. Most of what your said is you perception, but I am not a W8/8.1 fanboy so if you don't like it by all means use W7. W7 is the new XP.
Stefan_Lang wrote:
1. Lack of discoverability
Click the windows logo and start typing what you are looking for. After a few keystrokes a list of possible entries will appear. Select what you are looking for. As for the charmed bar there is a setting so it won't pop out in most situations. Google is your friend. Set windows update to inform you there are updates available but not install them. You then choose when and which updates are installed. That addresses your major complaints. That is if you want to fix things. It might be more fun to bitch about it. P.S. - I don't have a problem with windows update resetting my settings. Again Google is your friend to find out if others experience the same and how to get around the problem.
**_Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong._**
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesBelieve me, I've spent many hours googling for solutions, but most of the suggested fixes I found didn't work, or were reset to default after the next update. As for the update itself, since it happens (only) once a month, that one was incredibly difficult and time consuming to find and fix. But I've confirmed in at least two occasions that it was the Windows Update that did reset a number of system settings including those concerning energy settings and the windows update itself! The fact that I'm almost never connected to the web may have aggravated the issues I have experienced. But then, the system shouldn't expect me to be connected or being able to connect whenever or wherever I am! In the meantime, yes, I've changed the settings to only download, but not apply Windows Update. I did disable the notifications, because it kept nagging me to download and install the W8.1 update. I do not want to update to 8.1 for my own reasons and those full screen blocking notifications were just another source of aggravation! (I believe the settings to prevent the charm bar popping up are therefore sadly not available to me) When I look back, in the time I spent to make my system usable I'm sure I could have easily set up and customized some Linux Distro. I am well aware that takes its time, too. That's why I still use Windows. But next time I get a machine with the choice to either use a preinstalled W8 or spend some time wiping it to make room for Linux, I know what I'm gonna do!
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
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Stefan_Lang wrote:
When I work, I usually have windows maxed. For many of them, the easiest and fastest method to close them is clicking on the top right corner. Similarly, resizing the window is best done by pulling the bottom right corner. Guess what happens when I move the mouse in either corner! :mad:
Right-click the taskbar and select Properties -> Navigation. De-select the "When I point to the top right corner show the charms" option. Use Win+C if you ever need to show the charms bar. There isn't an option for the bottom-right corner, but I think that only applies if you auto-hide the taskbar. When the taskbar is showing, the hot corner is inside the taskbar, so moving the mouse to the bottom-right corner of the window doesn't have any effect.
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
Thanks. Now that you mention it I remember reading about that in the W8.1 feature list. I have my own reasons not to upgrade to W8.1 though, so, sadly, this won't help me. I think I read that the current version of ClassicShell also has similar features. Will have to check...
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
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I only brought up the size (and number of windows) limitation because you mentioned it. Me, I do not use Metro. At all. The link you posted is interesting, but in another way than you intended. It proves my point about lack of discoverability. Why is there no obvious way to change window arrangement? Why does it need an article to show users how it works? What was so bad about resizing windows by pulling at the borders that Metro is incapable of providing that feature? A Windows border that changes the mouse pointer to another icon when it's moving over it - that is a discoverable feature. A setting hidden in a jungle of badly organized option dialogs? Not so much! (and if you want to know where I got my bad attitude about W8 option dialogs from: just look at that article again!) I do realize that on a device with no mouse attached, and with a limited screen size, it may be difficult to catch and move a window border. But if that UI is meant for all devices, why on earth did the MS designers then focus all their efforts on creating an UI that only makes sense on a phone? Yes, there's a desktop. And, yes, on the desktop, resizing works just as we're used to (unless the charm bar gets in the way of course :doh: ). But MS made a point about Metro being the future, and the desktop UI going away. Once that happens it's no longer about who moved my cheese - it is about who stole it!
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
Stefan_Lang wrote:
MS made a point about Metro being the future, and the desktop UI going away. Once that happens it's no longer about who moved my cheese - it is about who stole it!
Get over it! :~
**_Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong._**
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Where to start. Most of what your said is you perception, but I am not a W8/8.1 fanboy so if you don't like it by all means use W7. W7 is the new XP.
Stefan_Lang wrote:
1. Lack of discoverability
Click the windows logo and start typing what you are looking for. After a few keystrokes a list of possible entries will appear. Select what you are looking for. As for the charmed bar there is a setting so it won't pop out in most situations. Google is your friend. Set windows update to inform you there are updates available but not install them. You then choose when and which updates are installed. That addresses your major complaints. That is if you want to fix things. It might be more fun to bitch about it. P.S. - I don't have a problem with windows update resetting my settings. Again Google is your friend to find out if others experience the same and how to get around the problem.
**_Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong._**
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesDiscoverability means you don't know enough to start typing... With CUA, you could browse through the start menu and app menus to see what was available. I am just glad I had Windows 7 to train me so that I do know what to type. Similar problem: The ribbons in office. I understand that ribbons make it easier for non-power users, but vendors used to solve that problem with beginner vs. advanced menus. With the ribbon, I have to use a dialog to dig through all of the additional commands (that used to be on menus) to find a few of the items that I then add to the "Quick" bar. If I had not used those items before, I may have never found them. I never use a mouse with spreadsheets. I am just glad that many of the old context menus are still supported (at least in Office 2010) Excel: Alt+E, I, D (Edit, fIll, Down).
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Believe me, I've spent many hours googling for solutions, but most of the suggested fixes I found didn't work, or were reset to default after the next update. As for the update itself, since it happens (only) once a month, that one was incredibly difficult and time consuming to find and fix. But I've confirmed in at least two occasions that it was the Windows Update that did reset a number of system settings including those concerning energy settings and the windows update itself! The fact that I'm almost never connected to the web may have aggravated the issues I have experienced. But then, the system shouldn't expect me to be connected or being able to connect whenever or wherever I am! In the meantime, yes, I've changed the settings to only download, but not apply Windows Update. I did disable the notifications, because it kept nagging me to download and install the W8.1 update. I do not want to update to 8.1 for my own reasons and those full screen blocking notifications were just another source of aggravation! (I believe the settings to prevent the charm bar popping up are therefore sadly not available to me) When I look back, in the time I spent to make my system usable I'm sure I could have easily set up and customized some Linux Distro. I am well aware that takes its time, too. That's why I still use Windows. But next time I get a machine with the choice to either use a preinstalled W8 or spend some time wiping it to make room for Linux, I know what I'm gonna do!
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
Stefan_Lang wrote:
next time I get a machine with the choice to either use a preinstalled W8 or spend some time wiping it to make room for Linux, I know what I'm gonna do!
Coming soon, Stefan's adventures in LinuxLand! :~ A preview. Why does Linux have to work like that! X| Why is it not more like Windows 7? :rolleyes:
**_Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong._**
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Discoverability means you don't know enough to start typing... With CUA, you could browse through the start menu and app menus to see what was available. I am just glad I had Windows 7 to train me so that I do know what to type. Similar problem: The ribbons in office. I understand that ribbons make it easier for non-power users, but vendors used to solve that problem with beginner vs. advanced menus. With the ribbon, I have to use a dialog to dig through all of the additional commands (that used to be on menus) to find a few of the items that I then add to the "Quick" bar. If I had not used those items before, I may have never found them. I never use a mouse with spreadsheets. I am just glad that many of the old context menus are still supported (at least in Office 2010) Excel: Alt+E, I, D (Edit, fIll, Down).
englebart wrote:
Discoverability means you don't know enough to start typing...
With CUA, you could browse through the start menu and app menus to see what was availableyou obviously don't know how to view all apps in W8. It is easy to do. Google is your friend.
englebart wrote:
Similar problem: The ribbons in office
That has nothing to do with W8, but I am beginning to see a pattern. You need to go back to Windows 3.11 and the earliest edition of Office. :rolleyes:
**_Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong._**
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Thin clients? That's a Novell idea.
I may not last forever but the mess I leave behind certainly will.
Herbie Mountjoy wrote:
Thin clients? That's a Novell idea.
I never claimed that I thought of it first. It is an idea whose time has come.
**_Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong._**
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
I have certainly come to had Windows 8. I am using windows 8.1 and what I like is what is like Windows 7. Just not the right OS for doing multiple things at once. I have always felt that Microsoft has failed because they refuse to create and truly effective UI group, and Windows 8 is another example. Hard to believe that the shortcomings of Windows 8 for laptop and desktop use would not be absolutely obvious. Would think it would also be poor for anyone one with a large pad since it would have enough screen real estate to be able to work with multiple applications at once. In the mean time see so many cases where Microsoft could have done better at increasing the capabilities of the programming environment. Windows does not work well with either Visual Studio managed code applications or the Web, and now there is no supported environment for creating desktop applications, now that WPF is basically unsupported. Microsoft senior management has been so stupid.
Well I like my Win8.1 - I upgraded most of my machines by now. Start-Menu is an non-issue as I always die ... start typing/searching. I like the UI (I just wish you could make title background without having to mess around in your registry) - you don't have to use the charms if you don't want to - all you need is to remember a few shortcuts (if you need to touch your mouse you failed - this is true for Win7 also ;) )
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Stefan_Lang wrote:
next time I get a machine with the choice to either use a preinstalled W8 or spend some time wiping it to make room for Linux, I know what I'm gonna do!
Coming soon, Stefan's adventures in LinuxLand! :~ A preview. Why does Linux have to work like that! X| Why is it not more like Windows 7? :rolleyes:
**_Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong._**
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesThanks for your concern, but I've already been there. It can do anything Windows can do and more. The only thing that keeps me from using it is the effort of setting it up. W8 blew a big breach in that barrier...
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
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Thanks for your concern, but I've already been there. It can do anything Windows can do and more. The only thing that keeps me from using it is the effort of setting it up. W8 blew a big breach in that barrier...
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
Looking forward to your rants experiences. :-D
**_Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
I would agree with you but then we both would be wrong._**
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
CodeBubba wrote:
I'm not sure I'm following you here. You can do anything on 8.1 that you can do with any version of Windows.
Yes. You can. But it takes longer now. In terms of more mouse clicks/key press/screen swipes. Try performing the following actions 1) take a screenshot of this page and send the image by mail to some one. 2) add up figures on a web page using the calculator. And that charms bar or what ever they call it is downright annoying. It pops out when it's not required and does not when you need it.
Und wenn du lange in einen abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein - Friedrich Nietzsche
Sahir Shah wrote:
Yes. You can. But it takes longer now. In terms of more mouse clicks/key press/screen swipes. Try performing the following actions
- take a screenshot of this page and send the image by mail to some one.
Sames as other versions of Windows: a) Alt+PrtScn b) Open Outlook, select New Message c) Press Ctrl-V
Sahir Shah wrote:
- add up figures on a web page using the calculator.
Same as other versions of Windows: a) Open calculator (I use it a lot, so it is an icon on my desktop) b) Type or select with mouse, then Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V figures c) Press + key between entries d) Press = key to see result
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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I have certainly come to had Windows 8. I am using windows 8.1 and what I like is what is like Windows 7. Just not the right OS for doing multiple things at once. I have always felt that Microsoft has failed because they refuse to create and truly effective UI group, and Windows 8 is another example. Hard to believe that the shortcomings of Windows 8 for laptop and desktop use would not be absolutely obvious. Would think it would also be poor for anyone one with a large pad since it would have enough screen real estate to be able to work with multiple applications at once. In the mean time see so many cases where Microsoft could have done better at increasing the capabilities of the programming environment. Windows does not work well with either Visual Studio managed code applications or the Web, and now there is no supported environment for creating desktop applications, now that WPF is basically unsupported. Microsoft senior management has been so stupid.
Well I run W8.1 on my laptop. That laptop is basically my portable development environment with VS 2013. It runs just great! I have also a main PC which is my primary development machine with Windows 7. Both are just great, BUT the multiple monitor thingy in Windows 8.1 is just much better. But still I never would buy W8.1 for my main pc as long I have the OEM Windows 7 for it. Talking about differences in programming, I don't notice any problems with WPF, Windows forms, ASP.net or other technologies from .net or Java. I guess it depends on the power your Windows 8.1 machine has. As well I have to say (even with a less powerful CPU and GPU) my Laptop (windows 8.1) boots 3-4 times faster than my Windows 7 device.
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CodeBubba wrote:
I'm not sure I'm following you here. You can do anything on 8.1 that you can do with any version of Windows.
Yes. You can. But it takes longer now. In terms of more mouse clicks/key press/screen swipes. Try performing the following actions 1) take a screenshot of this page and send the image by mail to some one. 2) add up figures on a web page using the calculator. And that charms bar or what ever they call it is downright annoying. It pops out when it's not required and does not when you need it.
Und wenn du lange in einen abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein - Friedrich Nietzsche
Quote:
Quote:
Sahir Shah
- take a screenshot of this page and send the image by mail to some one (...) And that charms bar or what ever they call it is downright annoying. It pops out when it's not required and does not when you need it.
Whooooosh. I'm sorry, but the irony is strong with these 2 sentences in the same rant. How to take a print screen and mail it to someone in Windows8 (assuming you're on the desktop): open the charms bar and click share, select mail app and a new e-mail with the screen cap will be ready to send to your desired recipient. Even better, since the charms bar has some memory, I have all my usual contacts I send shares right there in the share tab, so it's usually no more than 1 swipe and 2 clicks to send an e-mail with a print screen. Quite a feat of usability if you ask me. As for accessibility of the charms bar, try to get a bit more how it works sooo much better than all kinds of bars, launchers and popups: you have to either hold your mouse in the corner for a long time or you can just hit the corner and then drag the mouse along the right edge of the screen. I think I've had about 1 false-positive charms bar in a few years and even in that case it wasn't intrusive.
